[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

please can this put an end to the idea that we want governments play a greater role in running the country

If you want a laugh, turn Five Live on. They're about to have a phone in about yesterdays court decision.

It actually made me impressed by how informed this forum is and how it is not at all dumbed down 😯

I think that most people in the UK still can be quite reasonable. That's why we have the situation where people will say to an immigrant colleague "I hate immigrants, except you, you're ok - it's just the rest of them".

They're not aware of what's really happening to the public debate. If people can be prompted to think about this stuff then we could still get somewhere. But this won't happen whilst we have hate propaganda being sold by the million every morning, with no widespread alternative.

Maybe we should have introduced a mandatory IQ test to be completed at the polling station prior to voting to rule out anyone who fails to have a basic understanding of the issues?

I think that most people in the UK still can be quite reasonable

Drive or cycle on a road if you want to see just how selfish they are in general

Also the reason for voting were risible
not one person i heard say the EU was undemocratic was able to explain to me how they got the president or the commissioners and they were oblivious to us have an unelected head of state - that was tradition - and an unelected HoL.

Problem is they are also easily malleable by emotive arguments that are clearly total bollocks as this vote and subsequent pledge withdrawal has just demonstrated

I think people just repeat whatever argument they've heard because they don't want to say how much they dislike immigration.

If we could get all the moderate businesses and people to chip in enough money we could maybe start a free paper, like Metro - hand it out to bored people on public transport, and perhaps present an alternative viewpoint...

That's one of my more boring 'lottery win' fantasies, starting up a free newspaper that gives an impartial*, succinct fact check of the daily headlines, almost like a daily, dumbed down version of the Private Eye.

Throw some boobs on page three, some sport on the back page, and people might actually read it, could change the world...

*or as impartial as possible, states it's references at least...

Maybe we should have introduced a mandatory IQ test to be completed at the polling station prior to voting to rule out anyone who fails to have a basic understanding of the issues?

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

Some truth in this IMHO.

How about limiting voting rights to those paying top rate income tax? That'll get rid of those frightful thick racists.

nah farige would still get a vote

If people can be prompted to think about this stuff then we could still get somewhere

Most people now are only capable of thinking in soundbites, 140 characters and videos shorter than about 30 seconds on Facebook.

Reading an in-depth article (especially one on some of the nuanced complexities around the EU, law, economics, politics...) is simply not going to happen.

The good old days where actual reporters would conduct research, interview experts, break the subject matter down into easily digestible facts and then present it in a clear manner to everyone are long gone - replaced instead by screaming clickbait headlines designed to suck you in before being distracted by a pop-up ad and some cute cat pictures.

Everything has been dumbed down way past the point of getting anyone to understand anything. 🙁

Problem is they are also easily malleable by emotive arguments that are clearly total bollocks

Yes, and that is one of the key things that needs addressing.

True bring back democracy still be in the free market save the NHS by paying it instead of faceless european bureaucrats , our laws for our people

you can see how the patriotic have your cake and eat argument is appealing

However its also completely impossible to deliver in the real world as it was a lie and leaving just gave more power to the vested interest who will try and butterup big business - foreign owned no less- and try to get a special deal for the city of london/bankers and financiers rather than the people of the country.

It was never going to deliver what they were sold 0 why they could not see this is debatable - stupidity , good hood winking who knows

IMHO we have decades of shitty stories about the EU and nothing positive - bit like benefits they are all scroungers they are not poel in desperate need - and eventually folk just swallow this shit uncritically

That many of the newspapers, who pedle this lie, are foreign owned is another great irony

Problem is they are also easily malleable by emotive arguments that are clearly total bollocks

Theresa has replied

[img] [/img]

Can I recommend Yes, Minister, the British Sausage episode - it may have been the special between Y,M and Y,PM.

I suspect we're about to get a British sausage.

I suspect we're about to get a British sausage

. . . up the arse!

It is going to send the Internet into meltdown for sure.

The Leave eu Facebook page basically says, parliament is sovereign but not on this occasion.

For a foreigner like me, the reactions are quite scary.
I'm used to the Front National in France being openly racist, but those newspapers front pages are unbelievable. They are national papers read by millions.

I wonder how many more racial crimes will happen after those.

jambalaya - Member

What a day to pick to be offline Must catch up later. Article 50 before end of March either via winning an appeal or by a Commons Vote perhaps as soon as later this month. Tories won't vote against it or trigger a General Election. My 2 cents.

Oh thank God for that - did anyone else have a mental Picture of Jamba's front door, milk bottles and news papers piling up, "oh what's that smell?".

Before they get his neighbours saying "he kept himself to himself" on TV as they wheeled his corpse away in the background.

And now Wales and possibly Scotland standing against the government at the supreme Court.

A Tory mp has also resigned in protest to the government reaction to yesterday judgement.

This is getting messier by the minute.

Some good tweets listed here about the headlines including responses from judges.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/04/enemies-of-the-people-british-newspapers-react-judges-brexit-ruling?CMP=fb_gu

I've got a mother who buys the Mail on Sunday and in-laws who get the Telegraph every single bloody day.

Sigh.

Stephen Phillips

may be an outie

but he likes cycling in hilly lincolnshire
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2016-10-12a.106.0#g114.1

either way May's majority is shrinking.....

[quote=kimbers ]Theresa has replied

If only it wasn't possible to believe the only reason that isn't real is because she knows better than to reveal what she really thinks.

If this is our crack team of negotiators who are going to get us the best deal you'd have to say that they've ****ed up even before leaving the starting gate.

For a foreigner like me, the reactions are quite scary.
I'm used to the Front National in France being openly racist, but those newspapers front pages are unbelievable. They are national papers read by millions.

I was born in the UK and have lived here my whole life but i have a foreign name...

Part of me is just waiting for "f*** off foreigner" to appear on something.

brexiteer, now wanting a military coup

[img] [/img]

Friend of mine from Sweden was told to 'go back to where she'd come' by an old man at a bus stop not long after the referendum result.

Absolutely shocking, she was quite upset when I met her in the pub afterwards and I had to reassure her that it was only a small minority who though like that. Despite being here for 12 years and with a British husband she's still not sure whether to stay in the UK anymore.

I work with a lot of European scientists, some of them have been here for 15+ years, several of them are planning to head back home once their contracts expire, directly as a result of the referendum and the shit it has stirred up, they no longer think its a good place for them or their families.

[quote=kimbers ]brexiteer, now wanting a military coup

He's posting far more nutty stuff

- and I'm sure he's not alone. Though in almost the opposite way to DM articles it's worth reading the comments on his posts for reassurance of the sanity of ordinary people (I suspect the Brexit vote profile of typical FB users is somewhat different to that of DM commenters).

Blimey! The Reichstag is on fire again, too!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-austria-parliament-fire-idUKKBN12Z0VN

It's all happening again!

No, wait. That's in the "Anschluss " bit of the Germany... 😀

who reckons farige is toying with getting his arse elected in lincs then?

hes desperate to get his foot into westminster after all

there are some peaches on there almost all in caps lock

IGNORE THE JUDGES IN THE NAME OF DEMOCRACY.

Yes lets ignore the democratic law of the land, as decided by an independent judiciary simply stating what the rules parliament passed mean, all for the sake of our democracy says the man inciting riots and asking the army to overthrow the govt

i think we probably all agree this sis the dort of person we worry about having a vote.

Despite being here for 12 years and with a British husband she's still not sure whether to stay in the UK anymore.

I've lived here almost all my life and loved and stuck up for the place; and even I'm not sure I want to stay any more.

I'm thinking of changing me moniker to Saxe-Coburg and wait for the insults from the plastic patriots to roll in.

somewhere in chipping norton, right now

[img] [/img]

I've lived here almost all my life and loved and stuck up for the place; and even I'm not sure I want to stay any more.

Same here, if the racist bigots get their way and we go for 'Hard Brexit' then think I'll look to move somewhere more open minded. Such a shame but I don't want to live in a country that shuts itself off from the rest of the continent.

This page's formatting is almost as messed up as brexit.

molgrips - Member

This page's formatting is almost as messed up as brexit.

Both messed up by David Cameron.

Same here, if the racist bigots get their way and we go for 'Hard Brexit'

not everyone that voted for breexit is racist and it's pretty ignorant of people to keep suggesting this over and over, like a broken record, that they are. It's about as ignorant as the people that voted for breexit based on those 'promises' or for racist reasons.

My wife is Hungarian, she is having similar thoughts. She's lived here since 2003.

She's applying for a British Passport as there in no guarantee on her status without one.

-not everyone that voted for breexit is racist and it's pretty ignorant of people to keep suggesting over and over, like a broken record, that they are.-

the implication was that those pushing for hard brexit are racist- not everyone who voted for brexit, im sure many wanted soft brexit, and tbf you must really hate foreigners if you want to damage our economy as much as a hard exit would.

the implication was that those pushing for hard brexit are racist

and there's another ignorant comment - why are they necessarily racist ?

[i]-not everyone that voted for breexit is racist and it's pretty ignorant of people to keep suggesting over and over, like a broken record, that they are.-[/I]

True, but my MIL is both and was amazed when she mentioned voting leave that the wife and I were remainers. Why she thought otherwise is beyond us.

breexit is very unlikely to happen now anyway with MPs voting on it - for instance UKIP got a lot of votes in the last election and only one MP, SNP got a lot less votes and loads of MPs - so that is going to give a totally different result than the referendum.

and tbf you must really hate foreigners if you want to damage our economy as much as a hard exit would

hating foreigners and hating the EU organisation are two different things and I think the vote was to leave the EU.

Some people might have misinterpreted that as getting rid of foreigners but they would have to be pretty stupid to not realise that the only foreigners affected would be those from the EU and not elsewhere.

Only as stupid though as those that keep going on about breexit voters all being racist...

not everyone that voted for breexit is racist and it's pretty ignorant of people to keep suggesting this over and over, like a broken record, that they are.

No of course not, but a significant percentage are, and what Brexit has delivered to those people who are racist (and what we have seen post-referendum) is a perceived validation of their skewed opinions and a feeling that it's okay for them to now speak out with their racist views, making foreigners feel unwelcome in the process.

This is exactly the last sort of thing this country needs right now and requires shutting down quickly. At the very east the government should be re-assuring all foreigners that are here legally, that whatever happens post-Brexit, they will still be a valued and welcome part of UK society.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't lead to a general election based on breexit and corbyn getting in because of it - that will be a lot worse for the country's economy than breexit.

Getting rid of May would be good though I think - even Boris would be better and deep down he wasn't really a complete exiter, based on his comments.

I've always considered that your level racism is displayed on the back of your head - only other people can see and quantify it.

Standing where I am 🙂 , everyone I know who have declared voting for brexit (bar ONE), has displayed a cheerful amount of casual racism.

Edit - I am [b]definitely [/b]not racist because, apparently, I cant even spell the bl00dy word... 😀

why are they necessarily racist ?

coz a hard brexit has the potential to be so damaging its bling jingositic faith that motivates and little else

Getting rid of May would be good though I think - even Boris would be better and deep down he wasn't really a complete exiter, based on his comments

What the same Boris who jumped on the Brexit bandwagon he didn't actually agree with merely to further his own career? Really? Have you been drinking?

not everyone that voted for breexit is racist and it's pretty ignorant of people to keep suggesting this over and over, like a broken record, that they are. It's about as ignorant as the people that voted for breexit based on those 'promises' or for racist reasons.

no not everyone who voted brexit is a racist, but the racists have seen it as a vindication and the current approach of papers like the mail are only reinforcing the idea the racism is acceptable.

And there are alot of racists in the UK, they have just kept their mouths shut during the recent past

This is exactly the last sort of thing this country needs right now and requires shutting down quickly. At the very east the government should be re-assuring all foreigners that are here legally, that whatever happens post-Brexit, they will still be a valued and welcome part of UK society.

Pretty sure I saw Rees-Moog (for it was he) saying that their status is actually legally secure anyway - can't remember on what basis. I think it is just political BS with these statements about status not being certain - May has a habit of making statements that can't be backed up...

I'd have to say that of the outers I know race was a factor for their vote.
"I'm not a racist but...."

not everyone that voted for breexit is racist and it's pretty ignorant of people to keep suggesting this over and over, like a broken record, that they are. It's about as ignorant as the people that voted for breexit based on those 'promises' or for racist reasons.

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every single racist voted for Brexit

And now they've taken the result as an endorsement of their toxic views. And that's because the Leave campaign gave a tacit nod that racism was ok, as it courted their votes out of pure cynical opportunism

Everyone, not least the press, seem to have quickly forgotten about the murder of Jo Cox, which was the ultimate (somewhat inevitable) expression of this present attitude of mean-spirited intolerance and xenophobia

With the vile, almost facistic sentiments being stoked up by todays absolutely disgraceful newspaper front pages, would you bet against us having another similar incident shortly

Because I wouldn't.

With the vile sentiments being stoked up by todays absolutely disgraceful newspaper front pages, would you bet against us having another similar incident shortly

I truly hope that is b*llocks, but it is my view!

On a lighter note, anyone seen the £350 million we were promised for the NHS?

Why don't we just have a referendum to get rid of the High Court?

Missed a good.morning by the looks of things - no papers yet, no radio etc - just got very cold and now wet on long bike ride instead.

Mol - people who understand business, and people capable of leading for a start.
Someone else re housing - the givernment - well strictly the independent (for how much longer) BoE are very active in the housing market - propping it up at unsustainable levels !!! More reason to keep them out of the way 😉

I was talking to a mate in the pub past night who is pro-Brexit. His main motivation for leaving was to give the UK the ability to independently strike trade deals beyond the EU. He has no problem with freedom of movement and would be glad if that could continue.

So there you go.

That shows two key things: not every leaver is racist and leavers have differing ideas about what Brexit should involve.

hating foreigners and hating the EU organisation are two different things and I think the vote was to leave the EU.

Indeed TG, nothing about leaving the single market, about ending freedom of movement of various things, the vote was effectively "do you want to not have a say in setting EU rules any more?"

Everything else was and is up for grabs. And the first bit still might be - who knows?

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, but every single racist voted for Brexit

pretty sure I saw Rees-Moog (for it was he) saying that their status is actually legally secure anyway

I think it is just political BS with these statements about status not being certain

The last I heard re EU citizens was it depends on what the EU says about us that are over there[ in the EU] as we will reciprocate[ probably]

Missed a good.morning by the looks of things - no papers yet, no radio etc - just got very cold and now wet on long bike ride instead.

Good option. To bring you up to speed, nothing has happened. Arguments about the Venn diagrams of Brexiters and racists are being rerun, the Mail is being xenophobic and possibly racist so nowt new.

Oh the Express appears to be advocating armed revolution- or maybe just implying. And Diana is still alive.

"ThIS and i understand why Turnerguy , who voted leave iirc, is uncomfortable with the fact they and the racist agree on this issue. I would not feel great about it either"

Which means that the Remain vote must be vastly exaggerated since Leavers who felt uncomfortable voting with racists will not have voted leave as they desired and abstained or perhaps even voted remain to reinforce their no racist status.

So the true leave majority must be way bigger than the 2pc.

yes if you want to make things up, not apply reason or logic nor rational and guess wildly then that is exactly what that shows 😯 🙄

Its quite hard to tell on these threads what is Poes law and what folk actually mean

And this winter will be THE WORST ON RECORD AS EUROSNOW SWEEPS IN FROM THE CONTINENT

at least it will be white 😉

Brrrrexit!

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexit-leave-voter-british-law-caller/

Oh.

My.

God.

The world does not have enough facepalm memes to sum up that caller. 😯

Can't we just have British snow? All this euro snow, taking the job of the British snow is unacceptable.
Surely as an independent nation, the UK does not have to wait for winter to make snow .lets have snow in august ready for the winter months.
That will show them.

The view at lunch here was that we agree not all Brexies (Brexies EU Runners?) are racist.

But the other 16.9m of them are. 😉

If you already accept that people don't want to vote with racists, I can't see how you can conclude that didn't depress the Leave vote.

If you already accept that people don't want to vote with racists,

Who said that ?

Can you not read the bit you quoted and comprehend?

I can't see how you can conclude that didn't depress the Leave vote.

YMMV

It's a little concerning we've heard nothing from the government in support of the judiciary even though they were on the losing side, or is letting this vitriol ride a not so subtle way of putting pressure on the supreme court justices. 👿

Not if they have sense - judges don't tend to respond well to pressure being put on them.

Outofbreath - just out of interest you understand, do you consider yourself a racist?

"Out if breath - just out of interest you understand, do you consider yourself a racist?"

According to this thread all racists voted leave. I didn't. Therefore I can't be a racist.

If you already accept that people don't want to vote with racists,

Who said that ?

You:

i understand why Turnerguy , who voted leave iirc, is uncomfortable with the fact they and the racist agree on this issue.

These judges sound suspiciously like experts and we did away with those in June.

Good option. To bring you up to speed, nothing has happened.

Indeed. We have had a HC clarification of the requirement to have an AoP to proceed with A50. Ok, deal with it. Should not cause so much angst - still, government should have spotted this beforehand which would have saved them the current aggro - good job that....oh forget it

Binns thats bllx. We have taken back control of our borders, so no Eurosnow can come in. We are hoping to replace with snow from the fast-growing weather systems of the Middle Easr, Africa and Aus

Talking of snow - that was the first cold ride of the year for me this morning. Horribly underdressed when the rain came in. Hot shower (tick), two hot drink (tick) - still bloody freezing!

binners - Member
And this winter will be THE WORST ON RECORD AS EUROSNOW SWEEPS IN FROM THE CONTINENT

Junkyard - lazarus
at least it will be white

Hehe 🙂

Out of interest then - how would the remainers on here feel if we had a Norway style deal?

This trade deal stuff...

If Ireland (Republic) went for Éirexit (™), couldn't they set "better" terms for trade deals than Britain - as they have a tiny defence budget etc.? (And be more flexible and more responsive to global changes?)

Reductio ad absurdum - apart from real "basket cases" in Europe and those expecting a visit from Capo di tutti capi Putin, wouldn't it be beneficial for all members of the current EU to get a bit idependantly jiggy with corporation taxes and tariffs?

You know, a bit 1920s>1930s? Bit of "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" and a Cable Street thrown in...

If we're smart with the timing, we could get it to all kick off on the anniversary of the last major unpleasantness - mark your filofaxes: War profiteering starts ("h'officially") on 3rd Sept 2039!

"Pack up your support tickets in your old Dropbox account and smile, smile" etc. 😀

£ at a one mont high - yippee

Oddly the narcissitic blond bombshell spoke some sense today

UK foreign secretary Boris Johnson said on Friday that he “would really not read too much” into yesterday’s High Court ruling on the activation of the divorce process from the EU, describing it as “one stage in a legal process” that will not alter the timing of the UK’s exit.

apart from the final bit.