I think we are talking about different things.
I'm bemoaning the loss of FoM from a personal perspective.
eventually we can justify preventing nurses leaving .. after all the state paid for their training
Most nurses won't want to leave if their working conditions are good enough.
I'd just like to that all the contributors to this thread whatever their views. It's been a better insight into views than any media source. As Britain heads into another election I've noted an aire of resignation here, of inevitability. And the election thread says that Brexit is now secondary to the older members of society who will vote for a Tory Brexit simply because they feel a part of the peer group that does and haven't the capacity for independant thought to do otherwise.
That means that long term investing in Britain is a bad idea so I've sold. Future contributions to the thread from me will be from someone who has no vested interest whatsoever other than the impact it will have on Europe as a whole.
Watching European politics I'm beginning to see some positive effects of Britain's absence. Macrons ideas on taxing profits where they are made, making sure VAT is paid on everything coming into Europe etc. are gathering a following and Britian won't be around to hinder. Looking good.
See how far we've come in just a short space of time.
Oops typo to start my last post: "just like to thank"
So I'll repeat, thanks all for your insight.
Boris's mandate is even stronger than I expected, his negotiating ability no stronger than before, his red lines no doubt thicker. To all the remainers - I commiserate. To the leavers - You're getting what you voted for.
Ironically it's not the Labour party that's taking Britain back to the early 70s, it's the Conservatives.
On a personal level it's EU treaties that have enabled a lot of what I've done with my life. I'm in the happy position of still being '"in", however 66 million people will no longer enjoy those freedoms and rights.
Europe just got a little less united and a little weaker. It's bizarre to see people celebrating that.
66 million people will no longer enjoy those freedoms and rights.
Utter conjecture because no one one here know the full impact of Brexit until many years of negotiation and fall out.
You be better off not making assumptions and judgements that drive you and others to negativity.
I've never been flooded and it's unlikely to flood here, I still feel sorry for people who get flooded. It's not negativity, it's sympathy.
Utter conjecture
I think the phrase you are looking for is, “Project Fear”. If you can’t even accept that after we leave the EU we will lose the freedoms and rights we have as EU citizens… there are a lot of surprises in store for you.
2016 referendum,2017 general election,2019 European election and now the 2019 general election.Let's face it ,however unpalatable, the British electorate wants Brexit.You can blame Corbyn,the right wing media,Cummings dirty tricks or the stalling tactics of the UK parliament,whatever. We could have had a softer May Brexit but it was blocked by Remainer MPs on all sides and the ERG, setting off the course of events that leads us to where we are now.The country now faces a Boris Brexit which could be harder than practically anyone wants, however the size of his majority may mean that he is not depenedent on the ERG and so may push for a softer Brexit after all.Fingers crossed for the latter.
So for me the big question now is - what will the future relationship look like for Brits and EU citizens? Will our trade deal include some form of reciprocal labour movement? If not, will The EU unilaterally offer opportunities to UK citizens along the lines of the mooted 'associate member' idea?
The latter would be a killer move from the EU - it would allow pro-EU workers to migrate into the EU - which is more likely to be higher skilled wokers - simultaneously boosting the EU skills base and weakening the UK which is now a competitor, without being seen to be taking political action against the UK.
2019 European election and now the 2019 general election
As I recall, the electorate voted pro-remain / pro-third referendum in those two.
will The EU unilaterally offer opportunities to UK citizens along the lines of the mooted ‘associate member’ idea?
Works for me. Others? Dunno.
nick1962
the English electorate wants Brexit.
Fixed that for ye, but aye, argument is over, Boris's vision is happening.
molgrips
Subscriber
So for me the big question now is – what will the future relationship look like for Brits and EU citizens? Will our trade deal include some form of reciprocal labour movement? If not, will The EU unilaterally offer opportunities to UK citizens along the lines of the mooted ‘associate member’ idea?
Ask Boris, it's all him now.
We could have had a softer May Brexit but it was blocked by Remainer MPs on all sides and the ERG, setting off the course of events that leads us to where we are now.The country now faces a Boris Brexit which could be harder than practically anyone wants, however the size of his majority may mean that he is not depenedent on the ERG and so may push for a softer Brexit after all.Fingers crossed for the latter.
This brings us back to the fact that there's no way to win Brexit.
- Remainers unhappy with any form of Brexit
- Leavers unhappy with any form of Brexit that isn't precisely what they imagined it to be: Hard, Soft, Norway, keep/ditch CU, block all/some/none immigration etc, etc....
verses
This brings us back to the fact that there’s no way to win Brexit.
Planet you on? It's been won. Boris brexit won, what ever the heck that it, he's just been given the authority of a blank page.
It matters no more if remainers/leavers etc are happy, long as he keeps tories happy.
It matters no more if remainers/leavers etc are happy, long as he keeps tories happy.
Which, I think, was verses' point. Any form of brexit is simultaneously too brexity for some of the Tories and not brexity enough for others.
"Get brexit done," **** me. Three years down the line, umpteen court cases and general elections, and god knows how many billions of pounds later, we still haven't even made up our minds what we want. We invoked A50 without a clue and in six weeks time we're almost certainly going to be entering the Transition Phase still without a clue.
The tories will be united behind whatever Boris wants to do. This GE win gives him absolute authority.
Having calmed down a bit I'm now thinking that if we are going to leave the EU and suffer the consequences....I'm glad BJ and the Tories are going to be the ones accountable.
Even they can't blame Labour for the **** storm that's going to ensue in the years to come.
Still a bit stunned that many people see the way to reverse the years of Tory dismantling of society is to vote them in again.
All feels very 1980's again.
Hope so. I loved the 80s.
The music was better. Sort of.😁
Planet you on? It’s been won. Boris brexit won, what ever the heck that it, he’s just been given the authority of a blank page.
I'm on the planet that can see we're still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you're on.
You can please some of the people some of the time, etc etc...
The music was better. Sort of.😁
And hair. I had it on the top of my head. Loads of it.
I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.
One half of that division is about to inflict whatever form of Brexit they want, and there's nothing the other half can do.
Game over
Yes, the game looks to be over, but I still think there's few/no winners.
verses
I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.
Nations are always divided. This one nation come together stuff is nonsense.
Is it the end of this thread?
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?
As Brexit won't be done for... say a decade? This thread still has legs.
Worth keeping it alive for all the "we told you so" moments over those years too.😄
Best park this thread for 18 months and see how much we've had to beg for an extension - and how much we've been given, by then. Cos there's no way on this planet progress on a trade deal will be anywhere further than beyond preliminary discussions by then. We woz once at the top table. We'll be begging for crumbs in a year's time.
Even they can’t blame Labour for the **** storm that’s going to ensue in the years to come.
binners will still blame Corbyn and Seamus 😉
mooman
Member
Is it the end of this thread?Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?
Nothing like being magnanimous in victory...
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
No. But expect a bucket load of Itoldyouso it about 2 years.
Nah this thread is going to run and run, it fact it's only just started. The next 12 months is going to be mental, and Johnson is gonna pivot like a three legged pig.
Ask Boris, it’s all him now.
No, these things could come from the EU unilaterally or come out of the negotiations.
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost
Is that what you think this is about? We're just sore losers? No wonder you're so cynical.
We're upset that our rights have been stripped, our kids' futures have been jepoardised, our worlds have been shrunk, and our country is probably going to decline for a decade or two. We will continue to be upset about this as long as it continues to be the case!
And we'll come here to discuss the inevitable string of **** ups as the EU do us over in a men v boys sort of way.
A working and mature democracy can change its mind and reverse decisions. The campaign to rejoin has just started!
Our young people deserve the opportunities we were afforded in our youth. We'll be going back with all the trimmings of Schengen, Euro and anything else that happens between then and now.
We also need to change our voting system 43.6% of votes cast gave a majority government, 43.8% gave a minority opposition. If half the votes don't count the system is not fit for purpose and needs changing to a better model.
Big remain supporter here. But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave. Breaks my heart how the turkeys vote for christmas but gobble gobble.
mooman
Member
Is it the end of this thread?
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?
I think that we can finally admit that there is a majority of morons in this country. Whether we actually leave still remains to be seen.
JP
But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.
How so? A pro-Brexit party is forming the government, that isn’t the same thing at all.
molgrips
Subscriber
Ask Boris, it’s all him now.No, these things could come from the EU unilaterally or come out of the negotiations.
Yip, but whatever brexit turns out to be, it is happening, it's boris's vision.
You're basically asking, will there be free movement, unlikely..looks like I'll be getting an irish passport after all.
kelvin
Subscriber
But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.How so? A pro-Brexit party is forming the government, that isn’t the same thing at all.
I'd put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
Think history will show we all lost but hey rejoice your(hollow) victory
I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.
Oh, completely. But we have no idea if more than half the voters still think we should leave. That would require a vote asking them that.
kelvin
Subscriber
I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.Oh, completely. But we have no idea if more than half the voters still think we should leave. That would require a vote asking them that.
It would, but the current government isn't and won't be minded to ask.
Yes, Br3xit is happening, it was the claim that we know there is a consensus that it should that I was questioning.
There's a consensus under the parliamentary system, the only ones with power, so aye there is a consensus.
What people think no longer really matters in relation to getting the withdrawal agreement finished. Which will be celebrated as "Brexit got done".
The things that come after that, I guess there room for public opinion to sway some things, to an extent, as they get brought up in the press. But I think most of it will lie in the hands of lawyers and Tory policy as it develops though.
Of course Brexit will happen now. The question is what sort. A country with a 5% lower GDP negotiating with three powerhouses each of over 300m people, but we hold all the cards, apparently. Well we want the German cars anyway and they need us...
Nobody will be satisfied. That is my one certain prediction. It wont be hard enough for the ERG or soft enough for remain. My less certain prediction is that economic reality will out in the end and a cushioned soft landing of BRINO will result. The conservatives know they have to sustain GDP to pay for the services the country expects and they have promised to restore in the coming post-austerity era.
And I get a works trip to Amsterdam instead of Canary Wharf.
TiRed
Nobody will be satisfied.
You'll only find that out next election tbh.
