GE & Ref on same ballot gets the crap out of the way
GE & Ref on same ballot gets the crap out of the way
Good idea but for some reason there is a requirement for many moths notice before a referendum to give everyone the chance to be told about the pros and cons of a single issue. Whereas an election can be held with a couple of weeks notice as no issues to worry about with the numerous different policies and complexities of the various parties.
Good idea but for some reason there is a requirement for many moths notice before a referendum to give everyone the chance to be told about the pros and cons of a single issue.
Yep takes a while to vinyl up the bus.
The country I chose to move to in 2004 is really not the country I thought it was. Quite disheartening. I imagine it feels worse if you’re actually born here.
Yep the unheard 16.1M unwilling passengers being driven along in the bus 🙂
It's ok we don't need to worry. The LDs keep telling us they will win a majority and revoke A50...!
Yep, Swinson has gone full egomaniac listening to her yesterday. LDs made a mistake in electing her as leader, she is dreadful and will be putting off anyone but an out an out A50 revoker.
will be putting off anyone but an out an out A50 revoker.
That’s half the country she’s appealing to.
Is anyone surprised at Swindleson?
Libs want a bit of power. History repeating itself. They used remain to grab the path.
Poll today - 57% regret the Brexit vote, but the Conservatives have a 16 point lead over Labour - confused? So are the public.
Some confusion yes, but many who regret the vote feel as it took place the result should go ahead, for good or bad. It's the Conservatives pushing on with brexit, a good part of the electorate want it done now and the polls reflect that.
I know people who fear Corbyn more than Brexit. That is why you end up with the above results.
a good part of the electorate want it done now and the polls reflect that
Another unicorn. Johnson isn’t offering to “get Brexit done”, he is pushing ahead with it dominating our politics for a decade. Still, if the electorate what it, and someone is pretending to be able to deliver it, nothing can go wrong, can it…
The country I chose to move to in 2004 is really not the country I thought it was. Quite disheartening. I imagine it feels worse if you’re actually born here.
Swedishmatt, you can come back you know. It's not without problems here, but we still have a lot of the things that made me want to leave the UK and never go back.
Libs want a bit of power.
How the hell do you think democracy is meant to work? People vote for the candidates that want to do things that they like. Therefore, candidates become electable if they promise to do the things that you want.
Am I missing something?
EU agree to Jan 31st extension - BBC
Molgrips - just calling out the LDs in the same way we do for endlessly for Labour and Tories.
LDs claim they can get a majority and revoke A50 - utter nonsense. Orange unicorns in the parlance of these forums
LDs will not do a deal with a Corbyn led minority Govt for 2nd ref - one of the most likely route routes to a 2bd ref
Is the conclusion that LDs are prepared to sacrifice any chance of remain for a few extra seats in Parly?
LDs need to be held to the same standards when criticising cynicism, hypocrisy and ridiculous claims as the other parties
Am I missing something?
Well people have been relentlessly attacking Labour for not deciding to sacrifice all to try and remain. So logically should expect the same level of frothing and raging about Swinson playing party politics at the risk of a hard brexit.
So logically should expect the same level of frothing and raging about Swinson playing party politics at the risk of a hard brexit.
Eh?
The lib dem/ SNP move is the ONLY route left to stopping Brexit
If they don't go for this now then Johnson will put his bill back, & the lexiters will vote it through with some amendments that Johnson will ignore/workround & we'll end up with his hard Brexit regardless
The labour alternative plan is what?
Sit there blocking a GE until the 31st Jan & we crash out, watching Johnson's poll lead climb daily?
I don't understand how the LidDem SNP plan works unless the result of a 9 Dec election is a Labour led Govt - quite possibly minority Govt supported by SNP and LDs - and a 2nd ref. LDs have stated again this morning will not support Corbyn led Labour Govt.
So how does the LD position stop Brexit?
I assume no-one is falling for the BS about a LD majority?
The lib dem/ SNP move is the ONLY route left to stopping Brexit
Please explain. From where I'm standing the only route to stopping brexit is via a 2nd ref. The lib dems have just abandoned that in favour of them winning a majority and revoking. Which is more likely?
LDs would demand a 2nd ref as price of coalition, with Labour
It's the only way now to prevent Brexit
LDs would demand a 2nd ref as price of coalition, with Labour
And JC to step aside?
the only route to stopping brexit is via a 2nd ref
And Labour is saying this comes after an election… so stopping the Brexit legislation going through parliament before an election has become the immediate and essential next step to stop Brexit.
I don’t like it, but it’s true.
LDs would demand a 2nd ref as price of coalition, with Labour
It’s the only way now to prevent Brexit
That is not LD policy. LD clear they will not form an alliance with Corbyn led Labour. Stated by Swindon over weekend, repeated this morning by LD MP
It may well be BS and posturing by the LDs but that is what I'm calling out
LDs would demand a 2nd ref as price of coalition, with Labour
Couple of points:
1. Hell will freeze over before Swinson enters a coalition with labour (and vice versa after the latest shenanigans)
2. The LDs won't have to demand a 2nd ref because it's labour policy. They're already signed up to it.
You can’t go into an election trying to get support from people who want to avoid Corbyn being PM (there are millions of those people) saying you will support Corbyn as PM. What the LibDems say is based on this simple and true premise.
I’m personally happy with Corbyn as PM. The way to shoot the LibDem fox is a referendum before an election. I think it also wins Labour support in Scotland, and makes a Johnson win at an election far less likely. Labour will move to this position fast this week I hope… it’s the only path to Corbyn becoming PM after an election.
The Corbynites know Labour will never win a GE with him in charge so they're holding out for a VONC and hoping he'll then be able to cobble together some sort of "emergency government" without having to go back to the electorate.
The way to shoot the LibDem fox is a referendum before an election.
And how is that going to happen?
Maybe - but doesn't stop us calling out LD bullshit, illogic and hypocrisy in the same way as we do for other parties
Especially the utter nonsense about winning a majority in Parliament
Past experience shows that the LibDems needs to be clear about what their policies are if they “win” (unlikely as hell) and how they are prepared to act if a coalition or s&d deal has to be made. Slamming them for doing so is very odd. It is basically saying that only two parties are allowed to put forward their preferred programme for government. Multi party elections (and perhaps governments) are here to stay I suspect, even if some would prefer it to be otherwise.
Is it really possible that there are the numbers for a 2nd ref vote? Torys will circle the wagons I fear, and Labour won't get all its MP's to vote for it.
There are “Tory” MPs who are against holding an election soon… they need to be persuaded that the choice is referendum or election… or they’ll choose can kicking rather than either.
The way to shoot the LibDem fox is a referendum before an election.
This I agree with. If the lib dems continue their flirtation with Johnson, I wouldn't be surprised to see labour tabling an amendment to insert a 2nd vote into Johnson's bill then guaranteeing support for it. If that happens the SNP will abandon the lib dems along with some tory rebels and the lib dems will be isoloated on the wrong side and probably forced into a u-turn.
Kelvin - fine - but LDs only policy is to stop Brexit. They were asked about other stuff on radio this am and just moved back to Brexit.
So a legitimate line of challenge is:
(1) you have no chance of winning a majority
(2) you will not enter an alliance with Corbyn Labour even for 2nd ref
(3) how do you stop Brexit which is your only policy aim?
LDs should not get a free ride anymore than Labour or Tories
'Leavers' suffer derision from 'Remainers' due to their lack of coherent vision over what Brexit should look like. However, the complete inability of Remainers to coalesce around a single strategy is really ****ing depressing. As long as BJ's opponents continue to play the man and not the ball, public opinion will stay in his favour and the probability of a hard brexit increases.
It's become a war of attrition and the hard leavers are winning.
@olddog … all those “what ifs” turn off the listener, so any political operator will just keep hammering the core message. It’s what “Get It Done” ministers understand and stick to.
You are right that we, the voters, want to know what kind of cooperation might come about if we get another hung parliament… but why aren’t representatives of the two main parties asked those kinds of questions? In interviews, the smaller parties need to do all they can to keep the topic on what their own platform is, rather than discussing the compromises required in multiple hypothetical post election scenarios.
Oh, go to the LibDem website to see all the other policies they propose. Plenty I disagree with, some I like… but don’t pretend they only have one policy just because one issue is immediate and all consuming (unfortunately) in politics right now.
I think it is a stronger, and more realistic position, for the LDs to say that they are likely to be in a position to hold Corbyn's/Johnson's feet to the fire for a 2nd ref if there is a minority govt.
But in this post reason world of politics reason or logic seem to superfluous
they are likely to be in a position to hold Corbyn’s/Johnson’s feet to the fire for a 2nd ref if there is a minority govt.
No need with labour, they've already agreed to a 2nd ref.
No need with labour, they’ve already agreed to a 2nd ref.
The obvious point being that but unless we have an election & they get into power they cant make one happen!
LDs would demand a 2nd ref as price of coalition, with Labour
It’s the only way now to prevent Brexit
Isn't that assuming no Tory majority?
Dazh - true I guess. Hence the illogical hoops the LDs are forcing themselves through
Lot easier for SNP as they can happily say they would support Labour 2nd ref as they will pretty much have Scotland locked down
The obvious point being that but unless we have an election & they get into power they cant make one happen!
Indeed. So why do the lib dems do everything in their power to prevent a labour govt? If they seriously wanted a 2nd ref, they'd be working with labour to maximise the chances of getting rid of Johnson. Can you honestly say they're doing that?
IT IS NOT THE JOB OF THE LIBDEMS TO MAKE LABOUR ELECTABLE.
- signed a Labour voter in the last and next general elections
Indeed. So why do the lib dems do everything in their power to prevent a labour govt? If they seriously wanted a 2nd ref, they’d be working with labour to maximise the chances of getting rid of Johnson. Can you honestly say they’re doing that?
As Tories will never back Corbyn as even interim PM after a VONC
what possible other way than via GE is there to get rid of Johnson
It’s a conundrum alright.
Anyway, desperation may push Tory rebels about to lose their seats and Labour hold outs to back a referendum before we Leave the EU. The chances and the window are both tiny now… it’s the hope that kills you…
So we've had the extension offer, has the blond buffoon, as per Benn act, accepted it yet?
