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EU Referendum - are...
 

[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Also Fiona Onasanya, Peterborough MP and she was Labour

Cheers Nick, I was talking about Fiona/Peterborough labour MP


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 8:49 pm
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Slowman the law can be changed if there are enough MPs vote for it to be changed in the Parliament. The court just have to obey.

True.

However.. Can you really see parliament voting for that!?

Boris has a negative majority of about 40 MPs.. I've lost count

Not a snowball in hells chance hahaha!


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 8:55 pm
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Unlike the English courts if Johnson does not put the letter in the scots court has the ability to do it in the queens name. So one way or anther that letter is going in. nobile officium

Interesting decision from the court - its basically a threat. do it or we do it for yo and find yo in contempt. they have cleared space on the monday to hold the hearing

Having promised to the court that he will do it Johnson would be on a very sticky wicket if he did not. Jail is more than likely IMO.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 9:03 pm
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True.

However.. Can you really see parliament voting for that!?

Boris has a negative majority of about 40 MPs.. I’ve lost count

Not a snowball in hells chance hahaha!

Everything is possible cos those in the Parliament are weird people 😄


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 9:04 pm
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Who is this Yalland then?


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 9:48 pm
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You can’t serve as an MP, never mind PM if you’ve done jail time.

Yes you can.
You can remain sitting as an MP even if they are currently in prison. A recall petition is automatically triggered but still needs the votes against them.
They are disqualified as a candidate if they are currently sentenced for more than a year but once served you can stand again with the exception of some electoral fraud crimes which adds a few more years.
Its unclear if sentenced for more than a year whether, if the recall petition doesnt pass the threshold, whether they could remain as an MP.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 9:50 pm
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Keep reading down, grahamh, Yalland goes on to post a lot of brexity bollocks about Norway, FTA conditions, a Europe divided on those conditions, EU reform... .

He's still a Brexiter:

But I’m not a “remainer now”. I’m a “remainer FOR now” which is massively different.

I’m disassociating myself from this Brexit, not my principles which are that Brexit is best for the U.K. and the EU.

He's just a Brexiter that doen't like comparisons between Merkel and Hitler. And completely deluded as to what is acceptable to the EU.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 10:02 pm
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Cost of EU Membership? What about the economic benefits?

Those were pointed out yesterday, £15 billion in red tape for companies under brexit, that makes that bus figure look a bit sick.

Even more interesting is the Standard poll of polls that suggests the appetite for leaving has waned somewhat.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 10:02 pm
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Ok I was wrong about convicted criminals being able to me MP or PM. Sorry about that.

But.. Possibly more importantly
How could a serving prime minister be able to serve if he/she is found guilty of

1) breaking the law (Benn legislation) by not sending the letter.

And

2) contempt of court (if he refuses to honour his promise to the court) under (1) by not sending the letter.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 10:10 pm
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On a point of order - I do not think Westminster can change scots law. they could try to make a new law UK wide that superseded it but the supreme court would be very interested in that I would have thought.

Its going to pee off the English nationalists even more if a scots court puts the letter in. Tee hee


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 10:24 pm
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the appetite for leaving has waned somewhat

Bin this Brexit Boondoggle ASAP.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 10:30 pm
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Blimey, an apology!

It's meaningless as they already put it out. It's already all over social media.

Apologies are easy, words are cheap.

It's just lip service.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 10:47 pm
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How can Johnson say that he will not campaign on a no deal platform for the next election when its clear he cannot get a deal without moving a long way from where he is?


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 11:18 pm
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How can Johnson say that he will not campaign on a no deal platform for the next election when its clear he cannot get a deal without moving a long way from where he is

Because the truth is completely irrelevant now

Politicians only have to say what they want people to hear even if they have no intent of doing what they say.

How the **** did we need up here?😕


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 11:23 pm
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Because the truth is completely irrelevant now

Indeed. Look what Johnson said Brexit could be, and what it was for, in 2016.
Look what he said he would do, and not do, to get MPs to vote for him to be leader this year.
He will say whatever needs saying to win the next stage.
Delivery is irrelevant to him.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 11:29 pm
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Also Fiona Onasanya, Peterborough MP and she was Labour

Oh, I totally forgot about her! Now you've reminded me I'm at a loss as to how you could forget that story. Apologies...


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 11:49 pm
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Keep reading down, grahamh, Yalland goes on to post a lot of brexity bollocks about Norway, FTA conditions, a Europe divided on those conditions, EU reform… .

He’s still a Brexiter

Nobody said he wasn't. I think the point is more that the kind of crap Leave.EU are pulling is over the score even for true believers.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 11:51 pm
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It’s meaningless as they already put it out. It’s already all over social media.

Apologies are easy, words are cheap.

It’s just lip service.

Indeed, especially when it is done with a wink and a nod that means ‘the PC brigade made us do this, you know what we really think’.

Goebbels used to do similar things.


 
Posted : 09/10/2019 11:54 pm
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Meanwhile, NI is slipping away....

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2019-09-11/poll-suggests-slight-majority-in-ni-for-irish-unification/


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 12:10 am
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What do we think?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-vote-new-second-polls-remain-leave-eu-boris-johnson-a9126876.html

Brexit: Majority of MPs now support fresh referendum, Dominic Grieve says

Will MPs pivot to a referendum on a new deal, or the existing Withdrawl Agreement, to see off a No Deal Brexit (either before or after a General Election)? If Johnson proposes a General Election with a No Deal promise, will more of his MPs get behind the idea of a referendum to avoid getting caught up in that?


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 1:17 am
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Blimey, an apology! Didn’t see that coming…

A 'sadface' emoji is hardly an apology. In any case, the genie is out of the bottle, even having to make a genuine sincere apology is probably worth it to get the meme in circulation. Small price to pay.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 2:19 am
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That's the thing isn't it? The headline will always be the comparison initially made about Merkel. No one will remember the apology. No one will retweet it or remember the press. People will share, like and retweet the original post so, in that respect, it has earned its pay.

This is the sort of thing that Trump and Clarkson have done in the past (and Trump keeps doing).

What a great society we live in.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 9:05 am
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Kelvin - things keep on moving. I think a second ref is now almost certain. I think it will be mays deal or remain. Johnsons deal is obvious nonsense and I think things have taken so long and moved so far that the prospect of a revised deal from labour along the lines of Norway plus is no longer even vaguely plausible

Its still possible but hardly likey.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 9:11 am
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Brexit quotes set to music.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 9:24 am
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Agreed TJ. But will it be the current MPs that organise that referendum, or will they stick to having an election first?


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 9:37 am
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I’m in favour of a second referendum but I can’t see how mays deal ends up on it . Assuming we have an election first if boris wins it would be quite a u turn to end up with that and if labour win or end up in coalition with every one else they couldn’t have on the ballot paper an option which they voted against 3 times ...could they …?

i suppose you could end up with a version of mays deal just called something else .


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 9:38 am
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Election first.

Mays deal is the only one agreed with the EU. Its also the only possible one given her red lines

Johnson cannot get a new deal without basically moving to mays position. Labour want to try to negotiate a new deal with different red lines and a much softer position. I don't really see that happening now and it was only ever a bone to throw to labours idiots / weathervane politicians in those pesky northern towns

Labour are committed to second ref and that will be deal v remain - so unless the get a significantly better deal then mays deal is the only game in town

So its either mays deal v remain or no deal v remain


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:00 am
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If johnson get a majority - something I see as highly unlikely - then its of course jump straight off the cliff. This has the added side effect of the end of the UK in that NI will join the republic and Scotland will be independent within one parliament / 5 years


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:04 am
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I agree again TJ. There is nothing Labour has proposed that can not follow on from the current Withdrawl Agreement, so they just need the political declaration to be reworded and then the whole thing put to the people. Of course, that assumes Johnson doesn’t win an election outright. MPs might decide that a referendum is needed before an election, to avoid a No Deal Brexit under Johnson happening. The polls are telling them that both a Remain win and a Tory win are possible… so a referendum is more likely to stop a No Deal Brexit than an election. I think they’ll stick to an election first plan, but wouldn’t bet on it.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:14 am
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How could a serving prime minister be able to serve if he/she is found guilty of

I think this would rely on them doing the honorable thing and resigning. I guess they would have the whip withdrawn which in turn would kick them out of the party.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:17 am
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PinkBike have found one, tiny upside to leaving with No Deal:

Cheaper Bikes!

Is that the only slight positive? Surely any reduction will be cancelled out by wage stagnation, inflation etc!


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:31 am
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I like your version of the future TJ but I’m not sure that is what is likely as opposed to what we would want to happen . Except possibly Scottish independence, I was a no voter last time but I’m certainly drifting towards the other way .


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:37 am
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Is that the only slight positive? Surely any reduction will be cancelled out by wage stagnation, inflation etc!

That's already been offset by fall in £ and who knows how low we'll sink if we leave with no deal

I also imagine it sucks for Orange

Not sure how it would effect Bird etc as they're stuff is made in Asia

Also Specializedetc, HQ in USA, but made in Asia ?


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:46 am
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I thought there was a thing where manufacturers import the parts (frames, wheels, grips, etc) and then assemble them in the EU, thus avoiding the tariff.

If so, this change in tariffs on bikes won't make a jot of difference.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 10:57 am
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It will have an effect on the cost of the cheapest of bikes. I’m looking at you Halfords. Of course, even those will cost more to import than they did before we set off on this little adventure, because of what we’re doing to the buying power of the pound.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:00 am
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PinkBike have found one, tiny upside to leaving with No Deal:

I think I've paid 5% import duty on bike components and 15% on complete bikes. So the reduced tax won't even make up for the Brexit related fall in the pound let alone the predictable further fall if no deal ever happens. Brands aren't stupid, they import the bikes as components, assemble and then sell with a "fabriqué au Pays Bas" sticker, well that's what it says on my Giant anyhow, and everyone knows Giants are really made in Taiwan.

Net increase in bike prices due to Brexit.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:07 am
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Cougar

Can you explain further? Genuine question, I don’t know what you mean by that.

Very few of them are the racist morons as stereotyped by the idiotic things we see on facebook or twitter.

Cougar

Let’s see.

If someone is against immigration and that’s 100% nothing to do with racism, is it safe to assume that they’d also be against people having babies?

IMHO a driving force for BREXIT has been calling out anyone who dares question immigration or migrants as racist. (Combined with lack of free speech in other things that are blamed on the EU)

The UK (but largely England* based on my observations) are incredibly bad at immigration in terms of multi-culturalism... I haven't been to NI in decades but at the time that also had segregation as did Glasgow.

There is a BBC link https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38200989 but the point really is there are areas where our UK immigration policies have created segregation and people are scared to speak out for fear of being branded racist.

To my mind I don't think there is anything specifically wrong not wanting to be the last non segregated family in a 10,000 in an area? That isn't multi-culturalism but bi-culturalism with different rules and norms and a "them and us".

Let me give an example... a close family friend lives in Brierfield ... he came to the UK in the 50's and moved into a Bungalow close to the hospital where he worked. He was a fully integrated member of society and best friends with my Aunt and Uncle next door. He (and my aunt Uncle) were progressively squeezed out of society on the estate... He retired early because he volunteered for MSF in 2004 after the Tsunami.

What we have created seems to be pockets of bi-culturalism... that are "English/other" vs <<local majority immigrant origins>> where <<majority local immigrant origins>> changes depending where you live.

I was a little shocked that this doctor who gave up a well paid job to volunteer to treat anyone and everyone voted LEAVE because of immigration as did his wife and son (also a doctor). He's obviously an intelligent and well educated bloke... as are his wife and son and his son is married to a "white English girl".

Anyway ... where else do these people get to express these views?
Who is willing to listen to them without shouting them down as racist?
The EDL etc. are waiting with open arms ... though I can't imagine my Doctor friend joining them or them wanting him I can see how he has been dragged into this.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:21 am
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But they are racist. They discrimate on the basis of culture, origin and colour. Racist.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:27 am
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Now now @Edukator, i'm sure some of the Doctor's best friends are white. (<-this is a joke).

@stevextc, your Doctor friend is against immigration and you've not really touched on exactly why.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:32 am
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He (and my aunt Uncle) were progressively squeezed out of society on the estate…

That needs a lot more explanation!

Squeezed out how? By whom? Is imigration really at the root of the problem? and are those problems fixed by brexit?


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:36 am
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The UK (but largely England* based on my observations) are incredibly bad at immigration in terms of multi-culturalism

Actually I don't think this is true, comparatively. We certainly aren't perfect, but we are much better than many other countries. That's one reason why people want to come here. Or they used to want to come here...


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 11:41 am
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I think one of the main attractions of the UK is that once in the UK there is a fairly low risk of being thrown out if you keep your nose clean:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/deportation-and-voluntary-departure-from-the-uk/

Off the top of my head the French figure is about 35 000 for return to country of origin and Germany send people back to where they were first registered:

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-on-track-to-return-more-asylum-seekers-within-eu-than-2017/a-44437223

Refugees want to register in the UK for a reason and that has nothing to do with the EU, it's entirely British political choice.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 12:05 pm
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Let me give an example… a close family friend lives in Brierfield … he came to the UK in the 50’s

So Commonwealth and more specific I would guess ****stan or India?
There was a specific campaign by the brexiteers targeting those communities. Basically saying how despite the years of association between the UK and Commonwealth all those Europeans were being treated far better and, if we left, then restrictions would be lifted on Commonwealth countries.


 
Posted : 10/10/2019 12:10 pm
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