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no worries we'll make up the shortfall selling jam & tea. that will go down like a lead balloon in some quarters after we bailed the back stabbing bastards out 😀
Yeah, I'm sure it's just a bluff - after all, we have Taken Back Control!!
after all, we have Taken Back Control!!
100% the UK is now in complete control of how far we put out national dick into the spinning blades
no worries we'll make up the shortfall selling jam & tea. that will go down like a lead balloon in some quarters after we bailed the back stabbing bastards out
So the future of the UK relies of Tregothnan! Huge amount riding on a few camellias.
mikewsmith - Member100% the UK is now in complete control of how far we put out national dick into the spinning blades
At last! An advantage to having a small cock
Even if there is an agreement made following brexit that suits the banks in terms of passporting there will always be a risk it could be rescinded by a future government. If you had billions at stake would you take that risk?
I don't expect any sudden movement of people but a gradual redistribution of the work to different European cities.
I prefer % of electorate, so only 63% didn't vote to leave. IMHO any referendum on a major constitutional question like this should have a basic threshold of 50% of the electorate to change things, and yes that does also apply to the Scottish indyref.
Should that not have applied to us going in then? To the ratification of our continued membership under new terms in the seventies? Should it not have applied to signing the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties?
Because on any of your measures, we wouldn't have had Brexit, we would never have joined.
I CBA to read the papers/internet, so are there any of the pro-Brexit sources talking of the Canada-EU deal?
IMO it pretty much shows that a UK-EU trade deal will NOT occur within the two year deadline, so if this is the case where will it leave us?
Should that not have applied to us going in then? To the ratification of our continued membership under new terms in the seventies? Should it not have applied to signing the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties?
We live in a representative democracy, there should be no referenda on such matters. We pay politicians to know, if i want my house rewired i get an electrician in.
My tennis partners has just had to pay his Polish builders 20% to compensate them for the falling £. I thought he was a mug, but if he didn't they would walk away! So he was stuffed.
Efficient market then. Builders tried it on and client caved in.
We live in a representative democracy, there should be no referenda on such matters
Dutch now have a law that all Treaty Change requires a Referendum. They felt they'd been burnt too many times. We have been naive as a nation and mislead. We should have had the same
and referendum rely on an informed electorate, sadly we haven't got one.
Naive , Jambalaya?
You mean like people who voted Leave because of £350m per week for the NHS .
We have been naive as a nation and mislead.
That's for sure, but not in the way you mean!!!
Dutch now have a law that all Treaty Change requires a Referendum. They felt they'd been burnt too many times.
I assume the "they" in this is the politicians wanting to abrogate responsibility for decision making.
We have been naive as a nation and mislead.
Speak for yourself.
We should have had the same
I trust my plumber to fix my boiler not understand the finer points of socioeconomic/political theory and make subsequent balanced judgements on the future direction of the nation. That is what politicians are for and why we have general elections.
Arguably a referendum on the outcome of negotiations before anything is signed could be plausible providing there was impartial information and no campaigning a la brexit. A binary referendum on a complete unknown with no facts to substantiate either side? Sounds like something only a complete f'ing moron would advocate.
[quote=ninfan ]Should that not have applied to us going in then? To the ratification of our continued membership under new terms in the seventies?
No referendum on joining, which seems reasonable given our system of democracy - at that point the UK had never held a referendum on anything. The question in the 1975 referendum was "Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?", hence a vote for yes (which won) was a vote for the status quo. So yes we would have joined, and yes we would have stayed in.
My tennis partners has just had to pay his Polish builders 20% to compensate them for the falling £. I thought he was a mug, but if he didn't they would walk away! So he was stuffed.
Efficient market then. Builders tried it on and client caved in.
Or they need to send a certain Euro amount back to cover costs/responsibilities there and falling £ means they have to charge more. I guess your opinion of that depends on whether you look at the world through daily mail tinted glasses or not.
Maybe once our economy tanks enough and all the migrant workers can't make a living here we can show Auf Wiedersehen Pet in Job Centres to get people motivated to return the favour, and bring some money back to whatever remains of the UK.
I CBA to read the papers/internet, so are there any of the pro-Brexit sources talking of the Canada-EU deal?
Classic pre-negotiation posturing from EU. Look look negotiating a deal is really really hard, impossible in fact so the only thing that is going to work is for you to cave in totally. The EU could have sorted, they've chosen not too. Create a bit of drama.
Guardian is reporting that major banks will start leaving the UK in the new year. Not sure if true, but would surely help house prices to a more sensible level in the south east. And ex-bankers could work as plumbers, or in sports direct.
I trust my plumber to fix my boiler not understand the finer points of socioeconomic/political theory and make subsequent balanced judgements on the future direction of the nation. That is what politicians are for and why we have general elections.
The plumber will be qualified to do his job to nationally recognised standards. What qualifications are needed to be a MP?
But that isn't a issue we have a civil service that does the technical heavy lifting. Claiming the politician is better qualified that the plumber isn't an appropriate test however.
Or they need to send a certain Euro amount back to cover costs/responsibilities there and falling £ means they have to charge more. I guess your opinion of that depends on whether you look at the world through daily mail tinted glasses or not.
What they "have to send back" is irrelevant. Have their UK costs of housing, food, fuel and materials changed in the last month? NO.
The client lost his bottle. Outright flat no. In fact is the job was properly organised the client should have had a written contract.
As I have posted before I was a Surrey neighbour of TMH's and the place was over-run by "try it on" Eastern European builders. I can recount a long list of people sucked in by low quotes who ended up paying up to double for work and / or having to have it redone as work was not done to UK Building Regs. The builders are well aware that many clients are naive and too busy or timid to give the "two fingered salute"
I CBA to read the papers/internet, so are there any of the pro-Brexit sources talking of the Canada-EU deal?
Classic pre-negotiation posturing from EU. Look look negotiating a deal is really really hard, impossible in fact so the only thing that is going to work is for you to cave in totally. The EU could have sorted, they've chosen not too. Create a bit of drama.
I just do not have the words to describe how utterly bizarre and non-nonsensical this response seems to me. Every report of the current EU-Canada deal suggests the same thing (for clarity - not what you are suggesting). Are you seriously proposing that Wallonia are the EU stooges and have somehow been put up to the job so that the EU can wring some concessions out of Canada?
What they "have to send back" is irrelevant. Have their UK costs of housing, food, fuel and materials changed in the last month? NO.
Why is it irrelevant? Some of their costs are cross border and affected by exchange rates, why shouldn't they factor those things in? Any other retailer does it (and are doing it now, and warning that it will happen more). I will admit that if they had agreed upfront to do it for a price then it isn't fair but if it was essentially PAYG then there isn't a lot you can do.
When I worked abroad I still had to cover costs at home despite being paid in local currency. Unfortunately I was in the position where I couldn't easily compensate for changing exchange rates by changing my pay.
As I have posted before I was a Surrey neighbour of TMH's and the place was over-run by "try it on" Eastern European builders. I can recount a long list of people sucked in by low quotes who ended up paying up to double for work and / or having to have it redone as work was not done to UK Building Regs. The builders are well aware that many clients are naive and too busy or timid to give the "two fingered salute"
Are you sure it was them and that is what they are doing? I mean really, really sure that they were trying it on and off to stuff the notes down strippers pants and not genuinely needing the cash? I'd hate for you to accidentally look biggoted by making sweeping generalisations about people from a region or county. Heaven forbid. Although I guess if they all look and sound the same it can be so hard to tell who the nice ones are.
In this case, client pays "building manager" in £ but he (BM) pays workers in zloty. The negotiation was between the client and the BM as to who was going to take the hit, I am surprised that my friend bottled it but there we go!!!
What they have to send back is the crux of the issue in this case.
If their skills were not in demand they would not have any leverage regarding day rate
Luckily once brexit is completed all of these workers will be sent home and the massive surplus of uk born tradies will be offering to do the work for even less money...
@oldnpastit - banking has been in freefall since 2009 and the decline has been accelerating for the past 18 months. I have no doubt some will try it on, I mean why not ? A handfull of small / tiny banks may move out - who really cares that's natural wastage. The big players will remain. France and Germany have very banking unfriendly labour laws and sky high taxes. Switzerland perhaps but much higher cost base.
I am not sure that not being able to treat your workforce like a bunch of slaves really class as unfriendly labour laws...
Those poor bankers working in slavery. 😥
? A handfull of small / tiny banks may move out -
Goldman Sachs, Citi & HSBC to be looking to leave
Who are the big banks that will stay- RBS 😉 ?
A handfull of small / tiny banks may move out - who really cares that's natural wastage. The big players will remain.
Anonymous bloke on the Internet says it will all be OK. Phew! I was worried there for a moment!!
IMHO seeing how well the gov rescued BHS and the steel company's that the Banking licence will be paid for regardless of cost and the other sectors will be left to fend for themselves 🙁
Them MP's don't like stuff that gets your hands dirty ya know.
(An my shockwiz duty paperworks shown up baaah exchange rate)
yup, who needs EU laws when we have our own government to look out for us
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cleaner-air-in-cities-blocked-by-treasury-k7njmh76v
Goldman Sachs, Citi & HSBC to be looking to leave
Goldman and Citi already have presence elsewhere in Europe. They don't need to move to retain EU Passport access which in Goldman's case they don't even really use. Can't see Goldman signing up for ultra high French and German personal and corporate taxes. Dublin ?
HSBC have already said they are staying, they review HQ status regularly. Barclays ditto.
As I posted before UK banks have been exiting European businesses as they are so unprofitable and they see little prospect of any improvements.
@dude why would you rescue BHS it was a rubbish shop ? Do we miss C&A ?
Steel prices have plumetted as Asian demand has slowed substantially. Cost of "saving" UK steel production massively outweighs benefits and in any case it would be against EU law (one of the main reasoons Corbyn et al are anti-EU)
Of course, the EU could decide to temporarily raise import tariffs on steel to help give European (and yes that includes UK) based steel production a chance of surviving the current dumping by other regions. Only really stands any chance of working if Europe does so as a trading block though.
jambalaya - MemberGoldman and Citi already have presence elsewhere in Europe. They don't need to move to retain EU Passport access which in Goldman's case they don't even really use. Can't see Goldman signing up for ultra high French and German personal and corporate taxes. Dublin ?
But having a presence isn't enough is it? They'd be required to shift their European accounting to a European country and thus diminish their services in the UK, which they currently export to th EU via passporting.
HSBC have already said they are staying, they review HQ status regularly. Barclays ditto.
Both statements issued before the result of the referendum.
In this case, client pays "building manager" in £ but he (BM) pays workers in zloty.
If you check how much the £ has dropped against the zloty maybe you'll understand why.
I have a Polish co-worker who has been bending my ear recently about how they can't afford to go home at christmas and the money they borrowed (off relatives in Poland) has just added £10k to their debt for their house they bought pre-brexit vote.
So, if you don't think this makes a difference, then you really need to think a little harder...
@dude why would you rescue BHS it was a rubbish shop ? Do we miss C&A ?
I'm sure the ex-employees would be happier having jobs but then they weren't highly skilled bankers.
From guardian website...8th oct 2016
The European Union has slapped tariffs of up to 73.7% on Chinese steel after manufacturers were forced to cut jobs due falling prices and demand for the material amid an influx of cheap imports from Asia.
Can't remember seeing anything mentioned about it thou...more of that EU telling us what to do:-)
So, if you don't think this makes a difference, then you really need to think a little harder...
WTF is that about?
Cost of "saving" UK steel production massively outweighs benefits and in any case it would be against EU law (one of the main reasoons Corbyn et al are anti-EU)
You really do spout some bollocks, it is perfectly possible to implement anti dumping, BUT the UK government objected and just like Wallonia blocking CETAS, the EU has been prevented by a region.
Trustworthy and honest Journalists on the Internet, papers says its all doomed. Who do we trust?
Journalists and politicians or let's be positive and make it work?
Trustworthy and honest Journalists on the Internet, papers says its all doomed. Who do we trust?Journalists and politicians or let's be positive and make it work?
So did the brexiters accept in 1975, did they think lets make it work, or did they spend 40 years pissing around???
Come back when you have a clue what EU regulations are holding us back, etc.
[quote=hora ]Trustworthy and honest Journalists on the Internet, papers says its all doomed. Who do we trust?
Journalists and politicians or let's be positive and make it work?
I trust a cyclist who can't make his own mind up, obviously.
Make what work?
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/22/queen-facing-million-pound-black-hole-in-estate-finances-after-b/ ]Queen facing million-pound black hole in estate finances after Brexit[/url]
Shirley doing anything that would harm the queen really [i]is[/i] treason, so we'd better start extending the Tower of London 'cos it's going to be busy!
You watch the Tories lose interest in Brexit if the banks do start to exit the city..
Hard Brexit?!
It's going to be a limp wristed, damp squib, couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery exit.....& it'll be the man in the street whose going to suffer most.
Jamba you thin skinned peddler of unsubstationated facts.
You asked for points you have made that you can't back up.
Clintons stroke ring any bells ???
Can you explain your 45% haircut on money from Europe, I was in Ebbw Vale a couple of weeks ago, new roads built with EU money, same for a new school and a leisure centre. London and a Tory government would never have invested in the area, they washed their hands of it back in the 80's.
It's going to be a limp wristed, damp squib, couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery exit.....& it'll be the man in the street whose going to suffer most.
True, and whose fault is that? They voted like fools and have to live with the consequences. No point blaming the Tories, They are simply executing a mandate.
How did the good people of Ebbw Vale vote out of interest??
THM unbelievably they voted to leave which is bewildering as it is stupid.
I know 😉 I was reinforcing a point. The irony in the timing of you post was noteworthy.
let's be positive and make it work? he said as he watched his house burn to the ground due to the fire he started
How did the good people of Ebbw Vale vote out of interest??
I think the issue was that nothing's put up to indicate that it was EU funded..
M8 in Crickhowell mentioned that all the massive road development was EU funded but very few people realised it when they were initiating self destruct.
There are EU signs on all those redevelopment projects in the Valleys. Guess people don't know what they are for.
This isn't any of the Brexiters from here is it ? 😯
WTF is that about?
@THM: comment wasn't directed at you, quoted you for your clarification on being paid in zloty...
[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/overseas-trade-in-food-feed-and-drink ]For Jamba[/url]
As the pound falls food prices rise because the UK is a net importer of food and increasingly reliant on imports. Food prices have risen and you'll soon be seeing it at the checkout if you aren't already.
just to add to Edukator's post, and much of what we do grow relies on imported fertiliser. Obviously fuel is dollar related.
Also the minor issue of what happens when you scrap CAP payments.
Intellectual pygmies is perhaps a bit harsh, even for Pob, but it does provide food for thought.
I must admit I read Hagues piece and was quite surprised at how personal his attack on carney and central banks were.
Gove and Rees-Mogg are indicative how divisive politics have become, throughout the referendum and beyond - they both seemed to revel in being offensive and dismissive of anyone who disagrees with them. - Citizens of Nowhere etc
Their attacks on Carney, along with other brexiters leaking against the treasury show that May is also having trouble controlling the vitriol that the referendum has stirred up, its not just hate crimes against poles and nutters stockpiling petrol bombs.
in other news the Mail today is apparently looking for someone to blame for the brexishambles
"The complacent idea fostered by the Brexiteers that the UK, as a major market for EU goods, is bound to get a good deal, is looking less convincing day by day"
I thought the Sunday and weekday Mail editions tend to have quite different editorial lines. Normal service will doubtless be resumed tomorrow.
The Mail on Sunday is a lot less swivel-eyed than the daily. (Relatively speaking.)
My parents have The Mail and I was surprised that The Sunday urged their readers to vote Remain.
[quote=jimw ]Intellectual pygmies is perhaps a bit harsh
Harsh on pygmies
I'm surprised at Hague - I always thought he had a clue, it puts his whole career in a different perspective if this is the real him
second rated comment from the daily fail report on Bankers legging it to europe, says it all really 😀 .
It's always the French at the front of the queue to stab the UK in the back,thanks for freeing them from the German occupation in WWII?
If only the Scotch had voted for independence the banks would now all be heading to Edinburgh. As it is they will now end up somewhere like Dublin.
If only the Scotch had voted for independence the banks would now all be heading to Edinburgh. As it is they will now end up somewhere like Dublin.
If they had voted for independence they wouldn't be in the EU so I doubt they would. Ireland isn't big enough for the risks associated with bailing banks too big to fail out so don't see them taking the big boys, they will be heading of somewhere else or nowhere
Actually Hague made a number of valid points.
I am in favour of independence for CBks but not omnipotence. The current policy mix is very misguided and on balance failing. The results of failure are yet to be seen, but they will be. Remember the last time CBks flodded markets at times of artificiality low interest rates? It wasn't that long ago.
Tbc, I am not defending either Gove or JRM but equally the BoE IS making mistakes and BIG ones at that. Hague was correct to point this out.
New York - according to a colleagues husband, who's been told to look into considering a move- hes in IT for a finance company, they are both french, but kids have grown up here so extra worried about it all
Noticed in Tesco yesterday that they didn't have as many offers on and those they did have were not as generous as before. Temporary blip or a sign of things to come?
Saying that, the 25% off 6+ bottles of wine is back so bingo!
It's always the French at the front of the queue to stab the UK in the back,thanks for freeing them from the German occupation in WWII?
That would have been the US then.
Hague was correct to point this out.
fair enough but the central bankers have been doing exatly what the governments want them to do, theyve kept rates low because our government(s) has been terrified of letting the housing bubble burst (chronic housing crisis, yet they build fk all new homes and come up with Help to Buy etc) so theyve been egging them on, happily. Lord Hague of Richmond is probably more upset that his multi million £ fortune doesnt make any interest and I imagine bought his latest mansion outright, doesnt worry about mortgage rates rising.
That would have been the US then
a pointless comment.
not sure the US entered the war for the purposes of helping their European partners - it wasn't until the Japanese prompted them with an attack that they joined in. France had already fallen by then.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]Actually Hague made a number of valid points.
I'm prepared to accept that having now read properly what he wrote - which wasn't exactly the same as what the two idiot boys were saying. So my sense of respect for him relative to those two is now somewhat restored.
a pointless comment.
A pointless comment to a pointless comment from the mail then..
On the banks it would be a surprise to see any major exits as such,just a subtle reorganisation before you realise that it's just a nameplate on the door and a few people to keep the Canary Wharf address etc. Not rocking the boat just accepting that London isn't the place it once was in an increasingly global economy. Outside of the EU it's competing with loads of other non EU cities and the EU ones not on a level playing field.
I suggest you look and see who liberated France - more little Englander b-s.
If only the Scotch had voted for independence the banks would now all be heading to Edinburgh. As it is they will now end up somewhere like Dublin
SNP where not proposing to have a central bank and with no lender of last resort or guarantor of deposit accounts and independent Scotland would have precisely no banks at all. Now should they join the euro etc they could start on that process.
Banking in London will continue just fine. London is a global market place and Europe is much much less important than some people here seem to think.
@Mike I agree about nameplates - they will be in EU somewhere, most banks have that already. The peoplenwill stay in London
Banking in London will continue just fine. London is a global market place and Europe is much much less important than some people here seem to think.
Both ways though, the UK will probably loose its advantages over other non eu cities so will have to compete harder with those while at the same time the eu cities will have advantages for the local markets over London.
The it's only a small amount, only a few jobs, only this only that is the death by 1000 cuts, not one thing will look huge but in a few years the cumulative total will be.
THM unbelievably they voted to leave which is bewildering as it is stupid.
Instead of insulting the peope of Wales why don't you stop and consider that they may have a point that you haven't fully appreciated