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binners
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Boris has just thrown Winston Churchill’s grandson out of the Tory PartyLet’s just take a moment to digest that…
I don't think there is a Tory party anymore. Which is fine by me.... as long as Farage doesn't fill that vacuum.
Any chance of Chaos with Ed Miliband?
Mmm; the queen and the PM have a weekly meeting, what will be Brenda's opinion on all this ? I know she's a Tory but what will sue think?
If he implodes and snap resigns (or is pushed) who is the current deputy PM ? I've not spotted who
And I'm pretty sure that if I behaved as Cummings is reported to have done earlier I'd be sacked in the morning.
Yeah amazing job, he’s gone from a +1 majority to a -42 majority, after 49 days as PM ???
GE anyone?
The only real difference between Grandad and, say, Yvette Cooper is whether they would have supported triggering A50. The opportunity to be the opposition on principle and say 'no you idiot Tories are disorganised and not ready to go' would be, on principle, fair but at odds with the labour Brexit voters... The debate would have been more effective but would not make much odds, the maybot would have thundered on with those blinkers firmly on and we'd stil be here
The Brexiteer quarter-wit Peter Bone is having his single brain cell absolutely taken apart on BBC news at the moment
It’s comedy gold.
Feels like something big has shifted today. All self-inflicted.
^^ Watching now. He is really in trouble on there.
Lovely, lovely stuff.
PJM1974
Member
Any chance of Chaos with Ed Miliband?
Worst gameshow concept ever but, it's a night of possibilities so why not
Interesting that MENSA candidate Andrea Leadsom says that MP’s will have tomorrow to redeem themselves, then they all get immediately kicked out by a pissed Cummings.
Basically they’re a party, and government, being led by some unelected leathered bloke making in up on the hoof.
Maybe shouting at buses will become government policy?
with the
people’sradicalised pensioners and disaster capitalists support Parliament has no power.
Cummings is nothing more than a SPAD - possibly a glorified one.
His 'power' is only ceded to him trough his ministerial reporting line; in this case, Blow Job.
I think he's he's too controlled to be seen pissed and insulting perceived opponents.
What's clear is that Cummings and Johnson are shits and incompetents of the highest order.
What’s clear is that Cummings and Johnson are shits and incompetents of the highest order.
I'm not so sure about the incompetent bit as we have no idea what they really want.
Boris knew he'd fail to get a no deal through, May's advisory vote told him that. The only way that's going to happen is with a majority in parliament in favour of it, that's now possible because Bojo will call a GE. The FPTP system means a party that gets all the Brexiters on board will get a majority in parliament unless all the other parties merge. 40% of Brexiters is enough to win an election, Farage and Boris working together could get that IMO.
Macron went from nowhere to President in a year on the back of dissatisfaction with the traditional parties both right and left, Britain is ready for a similar result for a new party and I think that the Brexit party could be party to do it.
You aren't out of the woods yet even if Brexit hasn't happened yet. The underlying anger and hate is still there and getting stronger.
The difference with France is that Macron is seen as centrist, whereas BJ and Farage are extremist.
True.
UK politics used to be really simple; Labour or conservative. Brexit has added Remain or Leave to the equation. Remain and Leave embodying emotions and ideals stronger than right or left. Even if the leave ideals are extreme they are what I've been hearing from the UK for years, they may not be centrist but they are central to British group think.
UK politics used to be really simple; Labour or conservative. Brexit has added Remain or Leave to the equation. Remain and Leave embodying emotions and ideals stronger than right or left.
Good encapsulation.
Remain and Leave embodying emotions and ideals stronger than right or left.
Which is the strangest thing about it. Most people wouldn't actually notice any difference to their lives if we were in or out (I mean sovereignty, EU laws, immigration etc,. rather than the impact of leaving) yet it has now become so out of perspective that it is more important that the philosophies of Tory versus Labour where their respective policies are very noticeable (i.e. austerity)
Most would-be authoritarians amplify fairly trivial issues (for most) to be the focal point of their populism.
The roots of populism are in inequality, societal breakdown, deprivation, hopelessness. But the focus of that anger is shifted towards a smaller target which is then blamed for the wider malaise.
I'm not a tory supporter but big credit is due to the rebels for backing their principles.
#onelesstory
#nogovernmentmajorityanymore
🤪👍
Arguing with a leaver on Twitter, the "which EU laws do you object to" question came up. Got back, "the working hours directive."
Sigh.
Whilst that was the only viable intelligent and moral result tonight I don’t know where it’ll get us.
I think I've been wrong every time I've predicted something on this thread, but why stop now?
Today, the House is going to conjure up a rule which outlaws a no-deal, it's more than just an extension it will expressly mean we have to have an ordered withdrawal. This is a clever move, Labour and Tory MPs who represent Leave areas can't use words like "remain, revoke or referendum" as those are traitorous words to some, but it likely kills Brexit - the only deal on the table is May's deal, every single faction in this argument, apart from May has said it's bad.
The only way out then is a more EU-friendly deal, FOM, Single Market etc - it's stupid, but we'd likely be exchanging lower payments for any control, the EU may allow us some input by other means in exchange for payments and not pulling this crap again.
This will likely be ratified by a 2nd ref - Deal v Remain, it's honest, it's based on realty.
What can go wrong?
Corbyn could take the bait and go for a GE next month, it would be messy, the landscape has changed so much in the last few years, anything could happen. The same sort of people who told May she could win, are telling BJ the same.
BJ might find a way to force a GE with a single vote, apparently there's a rule somewhere, Bercow won't play along, but can he stop it?
The Lords, it's being downplayed, but I fear a Lords Filibuster, I think like the Queen they know they're a throw-back and if they try to flex too much they might be written out of existence, but it only takes ones.
The House ****s it all up, Nicola Sturgeon is hinting about trying to leverage a another Indie vote, Left-Labour/Momentum spokespeople are putting the boot into the LDs, their new former-Tory MP, Chuka (of course) and anyone else on twitter. In theory The LDs, Labour and SNP have a nominal majority, but I can't see them agreeing on Corbyn as PM, not unless he's willing to offer an Scotish Indie Vote and changes to our FPTP system.
If the no-no-deal bill passes, it puts the EU in a strange position. Come 31/10 they could simply offer a worse deal, no deal and no extension. We'd have to revoke. There would be riots, the press would go mad and we'd kick the can down the road again. Brexit vote 2 or possibly 3 in 2029.
This is what happens when one person’s ill-informed opinion is treated with the same degree of importance as another person’s PhD.
I had a spat with a bloke on Twitter who couldn’t name a single EU law he didn’t like, made repeated references to the “undemocratic” EU, even though we had a vote for the EU Parliament in May. Apparently it’s about “principle” and anyway there’s GATT 24, which is “simple”.
Oh and the best bit is that he’s s graduate of “The University of Life”.
Can you begin to imagine the looks on the faces this morning of the idiot Tory party members who voted Johnson into power? 😎
no-no-deal bill
I fear the hype might have got out of hand here. There is no no-no-deal bill… the bill just says that the government must win a vote in Parliament if it wants a no-deal Brexit to go ahead. The bill would allow Johnson to come back to parliament after meeting the EU in October, propose no-deal as the way forward, and then justify why in the house, answer questions from MPs, followed by a vote.
Boris’ biggest mistake so far…? His continued angry rants about any extension being “pointless”, suggesting not only can’t he get a deal by November, but even given more time he can’t get a better deal. So… it’s May’s Deal, No Deal, or no Brexit. Time for him to stop lying pretending… and either say which he supports, and seek a mandate for it, or hold a referendum and let us choose.
So… it’s May’s Deal, No Deal, or no Brexit.
Not entirely true. If you were prepared to remove some of May's red lines there may be some renegotiation to be had.
But Boris can't do this as any removal of red lines likely makes us closer to the EU and that won't wash with the, largely pro-Brexit party that's left.
They aren’t going to spend years going through all this again. The Withdrawal Agreement is the only game in town now. Changing the political declaration to have a commitment to closer ties than it currently suggests is entirely doable… but meaningless… any future parliament could just tear that up.
A whole world of different relationships with the EU/EEA are still possible after we leave… but our actual exit only really has two forms now (and there is the third option of not exiting, of course).
Sorry if this has already been asked, but...
If no-no-deal is voted through and becomes law then an election is called.
If by some bizarre goings on Boris won that election with a decent mojority what is to stop him bringing the no-no-deal legislation back to parliament and getting it repealed?
If by some bizarre goings on Boris won that election with a decent mojority what is to stop him bringing the no-no-deal legislation back to parliament and getting it repealed?
There's nothing to stop that. No government can bind future governments.
If by some bizarre goings on Boris won that election with a decent mojority what is to stop him bringing the no-no-deal legislation back to parliament and getting it repealed?
Nowt and thats probably what he would do. The point is to stop him sneaking through the no deal brexit after parliament is dissoluted for elections and hence unable to stop him.
For some odd reason they dont trust someone sacked twice for lying promises about not doing so.
So… it’s May’s Deal, No Deal, or no Brexit.
Not entirely true. If you were prepared to remove some of May’s red lines there may be some renegotiation to be had.
But then there'd be no point in Brexit. For the majority of leavers removing freedom of movement was what Brexit was all about. It's the basis of of May's redlines.
But then what's to stop another no no-deal bill?
There never was any point to brexit
Brexit vote 2 or possibly 3 in 2029.
No-one's going to put us through this shitstorm again.
There never was any point to brexit
And yet the country voted for it, and here we are now in a total mess.
I honestly can't see a way forward at the moment 🙁
The point is to stop him sneaking through the no deal brexit after parliament is dissoluted for elections and hence unable to stop him.
It really isn't. That would mean they think the first few weeks after a no deal Brexit will be fine and dandy and likely to be a good loam for Boris to grow an election victory.
Boris needs an election before Brexit [1]. He has no incentive to wait until immediately after Brexit for an election.
[1] Or (if it were possible which it isn't) several years after.
I honestly can’t see a way forward at the moment
An election where a party gets a majority to do *something* is the way out. The problem is the way things are structurally in the Uk electoral system a wafer thin majority or minority government are looking pretty much inevitable for the forseeable future.
Yep brexit has broken britain
the brexiteers have shown to be utterly clueless
Im still certain Johnson will find a way to run down the clock, we'll crash out without a deal and then the real hardship starts
on top of that we get to spend 10+ years repeating the next 3 years of bitter arguing over our future relationship (remember the WA was supposed to be the easy part) & 40+ FTAs
and with unstable minority or low majority governments too, oh and trumps trade war is helping to drag the world into recession as we kick our own economy in the nuts......
And yet the country voted for it, and here we are now in a total mess.
I honestly can’t see a way forward at the moment
Brexit vote 2 or possibly 3 in 2029.
No-one’s going to put us through this shitstorm again.
2nd ref is the only way forward, however bad it gets, a unilateral A50 revoke would be a disaster, unless there's a huge public swing towards it, it's not enough to swing 52-48 in favour of remain.
The Brexiteers and their press will have a field day, they'll blame traitors and the EU for stealing our freedom and anti-EU sentiment will only grown stronger. The rules say we can't start A50 again for 10 years, but it might allow a Ultra Brexit Party to gain control and do what all those red faced idiots have always wanted "show Johnny Foreigner two fingers and all that".
There should now be the numbers in Westminster to push that through, but a withdrawal agreement needs to be on the table, no more unicorns - it's Deal or Remain, or Deal v No Deal if they fancy, that ones unwinnable.
Both sides have been shown to be utterley clueless.
An election will be stalemate as their are too many competing parties on the remain side. So unless all but Labour withdrew from putting up candidates no side will win. Possibly Boris would do a deal with Farage.
An election where a party gets a majority to do *something* is the way out.
But we've seen that even if a party has a majority that doesn't mean it can rely on its MPs to vote for its proposals.
But we’ve seen that even if a party has a majority that doesn’t mean it can rely on its MPs to vote for its proposals.
In a fresh election only candidates prepared to follow the party line (whichever party) would be selected. Boris has already started this process!