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Because making the Labour Party Leader PM will be seen by many in the country as if all those who support the act support him.
For god's sake man give it up. He's been very clear, stop no deal, hold an election, commit to holding a referendum with remain on the ballot. You've got what you said you wanted. You won. Take the bloody prize! If you and the rest of the haters refuse, we leave with no deal. And I promise you those of us who want to avoid that at all costs will make sure we remind you of that at every opportunity.
Its totally depressing, but I still feel no more confident than I did yesterday that No Deal can be avoided.
I think it's a dead cert now that we'll be crashing out. This will all just fall apart. It's doing so before our eyes already in amongst the factional infighting and party interest.
Our entire political system has proved itself not fit for purpose. There's not a single one of this shower of ****s who seem willing to put the future of the country before their own narrow party interest.
We need to take the French approach and start wrecking and burning stuff!
Well, that’s straightforward, or not.
As long as all branches of that tree now result in a public vote with Remain as an option, then I’m happy to vote Labour. To be honest, I don’t want Corbyn, or any other MPs, to be pressed into supporting Remain if they think we should Leave anyway.
If you and the rest of the haters refuse, we leave with no deal.
Who do I hate?
Anyway, hopefully compromise will happen… the LibDems have to get involved with the talks, whatever their grandstanding so far, and Labour have to accept that a truly cross party approach might require a different caretaker PM.
Kelvin - yes you are right that a different caretaker leader is more likely to gain the support of the house. However its really bad politics to make this a precondition and to keep shouting it loudly. this is why no other player is shouting "Corbyn must go" only Swinson.
What she is doing is grandstanding not actually trying to prevent no deal. My guess is she does not want an election at all as she knows all the new lib dem mps are likely to lose their seats adn she is as well.
All three options on that diagram give you a referendum with remain as an option. So what’s the problem?
Well, it's straightforward enough - thankfully - on the immediate issue of No Deal.
Thing is, if VONC passes and I then vote for Labour in a GE, they promise to fanny about as much as they can, trying for a different flavour fantasy deal, as in they are "pro brexit". If they lose that same GE, they promise to do the opposite and call for a referendum and say they are "pro remain". They can't be both, that position is not credible, and I have no confidence he actually is or will be "pro remain". He's still essentially punting the line that he is the man to achieve to a bright new Labour way to leave the EU.
Why must he be “pro remain”, as long as he solidly backs the commitment to hold a referendum with a Remain option?
I don't think it is a tenable position to have Pro Remain and Pro Brexit as possible Labour positions, with Jezza in charge in all of them.
Jeremy would like Brexit. A Labour Brexit. That makes him ultimately Pro Brexit.
He can't campaign for Labout Brexit, fail, and then next day announce "nope, I'm Remainy McRemainFace".
Maybe you think different.
And yes, stopping no deal is more important than any/all of the above.
Why must he be “pro remain”, as long as he solidly backs the commitment to hold a referendum with a Remain option?
He's got to win a VONC first - I think Swinson was rash but I also think she's got a point, how many moderate tories would vote against thier own party knowing it would put Corbyn in power? The numbers may well not be there, especially taking into account any abstensions or abscences from non tory MPs, a less divisive figure would need to head the interim government to ensure a successfull VONC.
Mattyfez - you are correct in one way but its really bad politics for Swinson to make it a precondition. NOne of the tory rebels have done. All Swinson is doing is making no deal more likely by making a national unity government less likely by her posturing.
Like I say, I think she was rash, she should have kept her gob shut, and with the other recipients of his proposal, pressurised Corbyn to field someone else to secure thier support.
It may not matter anyway as the tory rebels will be thinking (but not saying, unlike Jo) that they won't put Corbyn in power.
What I hope happens is Jo comes back to the table and then Corbyn compromises by agreeing a more middle of the road temporary head of government to increase the chancese of a successfull VONC.
Intersting comment piece in the Grauniad.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/15/remainers-stop-brexit-install-corbyn-pm
One thing that jumped out at me is this
"Swinson dismissed Corbyn’s letter swiftly last night, largely on the basis that others would surely do so too"
If thats the case she misjudged badly as every other player has accepted it as a starting point for discussions and the SNP and Greens have asked her to reconsider
Swinson issue is Dunning Kruger - she does not realise how poor a player of the political game she is
a less divisive figure would need to head the interim government to ensure a successfull VONC
Agree.
Oh, and agree Swinson rushed… perhaps she thinks things need rushing towards something that can get cross party support? Remember, Labour front benchers appeared on current affairs programmes to rule out any kind of “government of national unity” when others suggested it… perhaps immediately knocking any counter offer seemed like the best move to get things towards the middle ground… rather than weeks of talks. And that middle ground seems to be obvious… not a “government of all the talents”, as it won’t wash with the Labour top team, but a short term Labour government with a Labour PM who isn’t also going to be heading up the Labour election campaign that follows.
I think her approach was wrong by the way. But quietly letting Labour set the direction and hope that in talks they move quickly towards something that feels more “cross party”, that enough MPs can back, might be equally misguided though.
These are unusual political times, as everyone keeps saying , so if the opposition to No Deal can unite and get their sh*t together,get a VONC and it succeeds then why not get a non MP to lead the "government of national unity" for the short period that it is required until a general election? Someone from the Lords or maybe an academic or business person or even a celebrity with no party affiliations?
I’d agree with that (and would suggest past minister no longer an MP) except that the “undemocratic” charge will he used to full effect by the Leave team now running the Tory Party, no matter how the Johnson government is toppled (despite him having no mandate of his own, and his party not having a majority anyway), so keeping this to currently elected MPs might we wise.
I think Swinson wants to lead the unity government.
My choice would be Starmer. Clarke at a pinch. someone suggested Hillary Benn as someone who commands respect from all sides. Can I have a bit of what they have been smoking?
Whats paddy pantsdown up to these days? He did OK managing the former Yugoslavia - surely he could bang a few heads together?
I have to admit I do find it hard to see a non divisive figure. Starmer might be the best bet.
I think Swinson wants to lead the unity government.
LoL !
I agree with everything else in your post.
I suspect she does. She considers herself a towering political figure and inoffensive to all. I think that maybe part of her reasoning for her position - that she could be the compromise candidate.
TJ - Paddy would have been an awesome choice but for one slight problem - you do know he died last year don't you?
TJ – Paddy would have been an awesome choice but for one slight problem – you do know he died last year don’t you?
And that makes him less capable/palatable than the rest because???
I think Swinson wants to lead the unity government.
She has actually suggested Harriet harman (labour) or Ken Clark (tory) would be suitable.
AD -just remembered that. Oops! Still he couldn't do much harm.
We need someone with stature and respect from all sides, preferably with government experience. I am struggling to think of anyone. Clarke makes me uneasy - I think he is basically honest but some of what he has done in the past I would find hard to accept.
I really rate Starmer - but he is rather inexperienced. One of the few on either front bench to have any brains. I suspect he has ambitions for the future so may not want it.
Matty I know Swinson suggested them but I still think she wants to do it. I think thats what she is angling for.
Can We have Merkel? She talks a lot of sense!
Harman, Clarke or Starmer … whatever … whoever … let’s hope they get on with it … the last few years have lowered my expectations as regards MPs doing what needs doing though.
Aye - been talking to my other half and we are really stuggling to think of someone with brains, who is not tainted in some way - too close to Corbyn, part of the coalition or neo fascist
What happened to politicians of stature?
We need someone with stature and respect from all sides, preferably with government experience. I am struggling to think of anyone
I'm sure Mr A. Salmond could be persuaded.
Swinson on C4 news has said that she will speak with Corbyn and team (and nowhere in the links posted here did she ever say she wouldn’t). She repeated that she still doesn’t back Corbyn as the interim PM, and says a plan that includes another Labour MP would be supported. Says there is no point her supporting a plan that includes Corbyn being the caretaker PM, because there is no chance that it would win enough support in the house. Harman mentioned again.
If there's no promise of a full "Remain" option in a future referendum, I don't think the EU would even consider an extension to Article 50. It's clear they're not going to consider any more negotiations for Leave options.
Of course it makes the most sense for Corbyn to be stand-in PM. Swinson ruling it out is pure nonsense on her part.
Well if TJ's allowed Paddy Ashdown, I nominate Zombie John Smith. Well the Tories have had actual vampires as leader...
Of course it makes the most sense for Corbyn to be stand-in PM. Swinson ruling it out is pure nonsense on her part.
But… he wouldn’t be seen as a “caretaker PM”… representing the interest of all MPs supporting him… and the country as whole, he’d be seen as Labour winning power… with support from others… which will go down very differently with voters come that next election that would follow on very soon.
Scotroutes - there is - that is 100% clear now - see the flow chart above!
Scotroutes – there is – that is 100% clear now – see the flow chart above!
Yep. I think that's why it's been included in his letter.
Not from the EU’s point of view … as it still depends on the make up of Parliament after the next election. Hopefully the promise of an election, which might result in a referendum with a Remain option (if Conservative+Brexit+DUP don’t get enough seats to block one) will be enough for them. I still think an exit date of May 2020 is as far as their patience can be pushed.
There's one problem with this. Labour won't win a majority in an election. Not with Corbyn at its head.
An interim government could hold a referendum.
It could hold a referendum, but it won’t. PC & ChangeWhatever have already suggested this… but they have no chance of getting it agreed by Labour… would love to be wrong.
It’s a bit of a Catch 22
The only person who can call a VONC is Jeremy Corbyn.
The one MP who most definitely won’t get enough defectors onside to win a VONC with him at the helm is Jeremy Corbyn
He must be aware of this.
Chris Pattern summed it up perfectly tonight when he pointed out that a government of national unity behind Corbyn is as preposterous an idea as a government of national unity lined up behind Boris Johnson
So far tonight on the news, I’ve seen Tony Lloyd (that’s desperation!), Angela Rayner and Rebecca Long Bailey defending Corbyn’s proposal
If he’s got something to say, maybe he should consider coming out of hiding and making a pitch to the country
As invisible as ever
He might be like one of those old Soviet leaders who was issuing press releases, then it turns out they've actually been dead for a year
#wheresjeremy?
Vince Cable- just to piss Jo Swinson off
Given labours position on a referendum if everyone else makes it the price of co operation that the order of events is VONC, Referendum. GE then I see no issue with Labour doing that - however it would mean a lot longer caretaker government 'cos for some reason we seem to need a 3 month referendum campaign evn tho a GE campaign is only 4 weeks. maybe it could be truncated as we all know the issues now
Lol
Edit - sorry, that was at ctk and binners
#wheresjeremy
Can only see #joswinsonisatory trending currently.
I see no issue with Labour doing that
Very few people do. One is leader of the party though. He wants to try and get a Brexit agreement of his own to be the other option in a referendum. So it’s election and then referendum.
That’s the kinder, gentler politics for you
Everyone is a Tory now. We get that Rone.
So you release a tweet saying you’ve sent a letter, then....
Nothing...
Silence...
And that’s how you convince everyone you’d make a great PM, is it?
Serious question for the fanbois..,
You think that’s the way to get people onside? Seriously?
Slag Jo Swinson off all you like, at least she’s out there saying something! Doing interviews. Engaging with people.
Where’s Jeremy?
In the same bunker he’s been hiding in for the last two years, no doubt.
Absolutely ****ing useless!
He’s a leader and future PM like I’m a future Tour de France winner
Probably best on the other thread Binners. Maybe. Tricky.
They should do a 6-week time-wasting knock-out leadership contest like the Tories did, that'd be good.