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Wasn't it TTIP that was not going through because EU states said they wouldn't ratify it?
If the EU sign up to it
Don't think the EU can sign up to anything on its own, it has to be signed up to by all it's members. The democratically elected governments. Do you really think the EU is that autocratic? If it were I'd have voted leave FFS.
Unelected Eurocrats Molls, remember. The ones we all voted for the other week
As a celebration of stupidity and denying what’s taking place in front of you, you’d be hard pushed to beat it, but the Brexiteers keep lapping it up
I know it’s apparently patronising and condescending to refer to them as complete ****ing morons, but... you know....
I’m starting to think Trump may have some form of dementia or Alzheimer’s. And I don’t mean that as a nasty statement, just as a concern.
Now I’m not a doctor, and I’m only seeing news items and tweets, but it reminds me of intelligent people I know and have known as their faculties fade with certain illnesses.
Is it just me or is anyone else seeing familiar behaviours?
And yes I know this is probably the wrong thread.
TTIP was dead before Trump assumed his throne.
Because the people of the 28 Member States of the EU were wary of the ramifications - not least those posed by the opening up of individual National Health provisions to the vagaries of US style 'competition'- and protested widely about them. Thus the Parliaments of the 28 Member States were wary of the wariness of the people of the 28 Member States, because that's how Democracy works in the EU.
It's not all about 'un-elected beaurocrats', it's also often about un-elected blowhards saying '**** THAT!' loudly enough that their local Parliaments hear them.
"I’m starting to think Trump may have some form of dementia or Alzheimer’s. And I don’t mean that as a nasty statement, just as a concern."
It is inconceivable that he wasn't given some sort of instruction that, if he hears the letters 'N... H... S...', just be at least circumspect, check yourself, don't wreck yourself.
He couldn't check himself for even the length of a dinner.
And so we get our implausible deniability.
Luckily for 'the Donald', for some inexplicable reason he can always say 'i didn't actually say that' and even if he demonstrably did, he gets away with it.
Implausible deniability - sort of like inverted fake news.
I wallow in my ignorance
Well, judging by that post, I'm now assuming it's actually all pretend ignorance put on for trolling purposes… well done for getting us to bite.
raybanwomble
I have not visited here for awhile; but curiosity got the better of me - seeing the potentially terrible news for thousands of families that will be affected if the Bridgend plant does close down ...I kinda knew there would be some plain nasty comment or gloating on this thread; and yep ... I wasnt wrong.
Pure nasty.
Yup, some have given up on repeatingly saying "we all lost" when being told to accept Brexit, and now resort to the occasional insensitive "told you so" post.
The pattern is normally for someone to now come along and point out that because said closure is linked to troubles other than Brexit, that it would have happened anyway. And then we wait for the next series of job losses, and repeat the process again, 'till we're all Uber drivers and manufacturing in the UK is heavily depleated (as Minford predicted).
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I’m starting to think Trump may have some form of dementia or Alzheimer’s. And I don’t mean that as a nasty statement, just as a concern.Now I’m not a doctor, and I’m only seeing news items and tweets, but it reminds me of intelligent people I know and have known as their faculties fade with certain illnesses.
Is it just me or is anyone else seeing familiar behaviours?
And yes I know this is probably the wrong thread.
He is a psychopath - ie he has a personality disorder probably narcissistic personality disorder. He exhibits all the textbook symptoms so we he is really a textbook case
Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
Take advantage of others to get what they want
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Be envious of others and believe others envy them
Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:
Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation
he has a personality disorder probably narcissistic personality disorder.
As do a lot of senior leaders, CIOs etc,. It is what has driven them to get where they are.
and now resort to the occasional insensitive “told you so” post.
Nice attempt at defending the indefensible. The thing is the more brexiteers see this sort of crowing, especially the working class ones, the more they’ll feel inclined to vote for Farage. You’ll get the very thing you don’t want.
I keep repeating that the idea that Brexit is a working class cause is nonsense… it's the boondoggle of the rich and comfortable that will be paid for on the back of workers. Agree that the "you voted for this" type posts are both counter productive and flawed. There aren't many though, thankfully. You can see how they are born of frustration though… 3 years into this mess.
They're already voting for farage. There's no putting farage back in the bottle and the longer Labour tries to maintain a policy that is between two stools the more supporters it will lose. Time to shit or get off the pot.
You can see how they are born of frustration though
I can see how they are borne of deep seated snobbery, selfishness, and unjustified feelings of superiority over those who weren't as lucky.
They’re already voting for farage.
Not all of them. It's often been said on here that we need to fight the far right rather than appease them. This fight will not be won by the chattering classes in fashionable suburbs of the big cities. It will be won on the streets of places like Sunderland and Wigan. If we abandon the working class to Farage all we do is give up on any hope of defeating him. I'm afraid there just aren't enough hipsters or keyboard warriors to win this culture war.
Ahh… keyboard warriors.
AKA everyone apart from you? Right?
FFS dazh, are you really blind your your hypocrisy? Your constant name calling and sneering at those who disagree with you, you have appointed yourself as the working class champion, without any understanding of the backgrounds of those of us you constantly snipe and sneer at.
You have gone full trump in accusing everyone else of the crimes that you commit.
AKA everyone apart from you? Right?
I'm not the one whining about how unfair it is that the oiks voted for something I don't want and trying to reverse/ignore it. I've said before, if you want to stop brexit, you have to change the minds of the people who voted for it. You're not going to do that on here or with FBPE hashtags on twitter.
Your constant name calling and sneering
And where have I done that? It's true that I've disagreed, and I've had plenty of the above for swimming against the tide. Just trying to inject a bit of reality from outside the bubble 🙂
Mum was a cleaner, dad was a farm hand and then a solider and then a lorry driver, but yeah, carry on @dazh. Brexit is an expensive damaging game played out by privately educated politicians looking to change the country to suit them and their mates. The British workers will pay, not those with their money spread across the world. Most people now see it for what it is, which is why the people won't get asked to vote for/against it again.
Mum was a cleaner
To be clear my comment was aimed more at rayban than yourself, although I have no idea why you'd want to defend his gloating about working class people losing their jobs and having their communities destroyed.
Brexit is an expensive damaging game played out by privately educated politicians looking to change the country to suit them and their mates.
Totally agree. But it was also an opportunity for the powerless to make their voices heard, which they did. The only question now is whether the politicians listen, or continue ignoring them. If they do the latter, much worse things than brexit will happen as a result.
Nice attempt at defending the indefensible. The thing is the more brexiteers see this sort of crowing, especially the working class ones, the more they’ll feel inclined to vote for Farage. You’ll get the very thing you don’t want
This is the same class, that when asked whether they cared about others losing their jobs over brexit - did not care because they perceived those jobs to be middle class. We were told to get over it and we would find other jobs.
Pressing the brexiteers on any job losses even remotely related to brexit is the only way to get through to them, so that reality slowly seeps through the cracks in the bullshit walls they have built for themselves.
https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/
The offensive person isn't me, it's the people who voted for brexit knowing full well it would cause job losses and who couldn't give a flying **** who it impacted.
although I have no idea why you’d want to defend his gloating
I didn't defend it… or agree with it… just trying to encourage others to understand it… 3 years down the line, and a significant minority still think that the damage of Brexit is "project fear", and/or that "you lost" is a good enough reason to carry on regardless of the cost to the workers of Britain… some will understandably jump on the "told you so" approach out of frustration. I'm surprised there isn't more of it to be honest. But I consider it counterproductive as well.
And where have I done that?
ok, so the answer is yes, you are blind to your hypocrisy. Maybe try reading some of you own posts as another reader, instead of from your own self anointed sainted seat.
It will be won on the streets of places like Sunderland and Wigan. If we abandon the working class to Farage all we do is give up on any hope of defeating him.
They can vote for him all they like. The high water mark has already happened for Farage and his ilk, even before the European elections. Voting for him will change very little.
Orange man bad! Orange man bad!
grimep
Orange man bad! Orange man bad!
I think you may be on the wrong thread/forum/planet*
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*delete as appropriate
"between two stools".
"Time to shit".
Very good.
I've gone through making people laugh. I wish I could say it was intentional.
The more you guys sneer, dismiss and ridicule those who voted for leave the more you help Farage. Have you learned nothing from the referendum and the US presidential elections? The leavers do have legitimate issues that need addressing and if there are no moderate parties listening then Farage wins.
It’s a pretty damning indictment of the two main parties, isn’t it?
They have absolutely nothing to offer. Nothing. Totally devoid of ideas, vision or leadership - or indeed hope - they gaze back into the past
It’s a choice between a threadbare reheated Thatcherism or some incoherent return to the 1970’s, both fronted by total incompetents you wouldn’t trust to run a bath!
I think people are going to be pretty disappointed (to say the least) if they think Farage is the answer, but I totally get why they’re prepared to risk it
OK
There has been no sneering, dismissal or ridicule from me when ever I have entered this thread.
I'm very aware of the positives of being in the EU but can't really think of many negatives, certainly none that would make me vote Leave.
So what are these legitimate issues with EU membership that have caused so many people to vote Leave?
So.... The NHS is up for sale, human rights & animal rights are on shaky ground. Boris is in court for lying.freedom of movement is stopping. Farage has been on camera saying the NHS is for the taking. Thanks a lot gullibles 🙄
So what are these legitimate issues with EU membership that have caused so many people to vote Leave?
I put a tenner on you not getting an answer. The question has been asked so many time on this thread and no answers have ever been given. Yes the voters have issues that need addressing but as the EU is not the cause of the issues nobody can come up with any examples.
The way to beat Farage, Boris or anyone's else's populism is populism. Don't try and reason, don't keep integrity etc,. as you will never win the voters who are unable to think.
They can vote for him all they like. The high water mark has already happened for Farage and his ilk, even before the European elections. Voting for him will change very little.
I disagree. Places like Sunderland would vote in a proverbial donkey with a red rosette pinned to it all these years, because basically it's 'anyone but the Tories'. Labour have abused that power for many years by ignoring them knowing they are still a shoe-in for the next election etc.
From talking to friends and associates in the area (it's my old home town) they are still passionately 'anyone but the tories' but there is a new kid on the block that'll suck up a lot of voters. Not saying Sunderland East/West/South/North will suddenly become a UKIP/Brexit party seat but there's potential to lose a few over the country and I don't think Labour can really afford to lose seats if they are hoping to somehow be the next government.
Sadly, I really don't know the solution is at all. I feel that Labour should come down on the side of another ref but I don't know what the fallout could be from that. Worst case is a Cons/Brexit coalition and I shudder to think what that could do.
Fighting populism with populism? Absolutely bang on! The only people who’ve made any impact on Farage’s bandwagon are the Lib Dem’s after using Bollocks to Brexit slogan, which is about as the unambiguous as it gets.
Contrast that with most of the Tory leadership peddling some deluded, unicorn-based ‘renegotiated’ fantasy, and a Labour Party ‘policy’ that is frankly laughable in its tortured triangulation
Time to pick a side. The middle ground doesn’t exist any more. The Tories and Labour leadership are so detached from reality in their Westminster bubble that they just don’t get this. Probably never will. They’re now essentially irrelevant
Farage gets it. Always has. Seems the Lib Dem’s now get it too
The leavers do have legitimate issues that need addressing
They do, and I've said since day one that they absolutely should be addressed.
However, the legitimate concerns (ie, the ones not based in Cloud Cuckoo Land like the Lisbon Treaty 2022 bollocks) are all domestic issues, can be addressed without leaving the EU, and won't be fixed by leaving.
ION, Bercow is being an enemy of the people again.
Yet another example of those championing our sovereignty and parliamentary democracy- which is apparently why we’re leaving the E.U. - seeking to casually sideline it when it doesn’t suit their agenda
These people are essentially fascists. Little tin-pot dictators who think they can pick and choose which rules and laws apply to them
After all these years are people serious saying that they've not heard a single legitimate concern about being in the EU?
As a first exercise in compromise can you all give one positive for each of the two camps?
I'll start,
Leaving should stop our politicians from blaming EU rugulations for all manner of problems.
Remaining will continue access to EU funds to cover our budget shortfalls
Good old Bercow.
I think we can all be grateful to him for opting not to retire. He’s played a blinder recently, being our last line of defence against ego-fuelled headbangers like Dominic Raab and this idiot...
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1093148562928685056?s=21
Leaving should stop our politicians from blaming EU rugulations for all manner of problems.
The key word there is "blaming." Your primary reason for leaving, the first thing that popped into your head when pressed, is "well, at least we won't have a scapegoat any more"? Seriously? I'm sure the Ford workers in Bridgend will agree that's a price well worth paying when they go to sign on.
After all these years are people serious saying that they’ve not heard a single legitimate concern about being in the EU?
No, what we are saying is the legitimate issues that many voters have are not caused by being in the EU and are caused by government decisions (i.e. austerity) which has f all to do with being in the EU. Even immigration could be more controlled by the government while staying in the EU to appease concerns of the racist type of brexiter.
So what legitimate issues do people have where the cause is related to being in the EU?
I honestly can only think of one positive to leaving the EU. It would allow us to give whatever state intervention we want to boost business. But let's face it, that's not happening without the socialist revolution is it?
But the silly thing is that even the ability to give state aid to business requires the state to have money in the first place, which means a strong economy. And leaving won't give us that. So it's a bust, IMO.