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Good to see the PMs head of communications is so strongly against unelected people influencing the policy and legislation of the British parliamentary system.
Next PM?
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1113548595591045123
Sounds like he has the plan
MPs have rejected the Cooper bill at Committee stage by 304:313.
balls
I think that was a mistake on the Guardian feed no?
That was the defeat of
George Eustice. It seeks to prevent any extension to article 50 beyond the end of June.
Good old Grundiad PMSL
Guadian feed yep, mistake? unsure . searching for confirmation from other sauces ( hp)
BBC latest feed was 22:25 and still on amendments
Check the indie live feed, it's faster than the beeb and more accurate than the guardian.
The first amendment to be voted on is amendment 21 which takes out the requirement for the prime minister to put the EU’s chosen extension date to MPs.- Rejected , yep Guardian fail.
Government defeated on extension amendment
House of CommonsParliament
MPs have voted against the government's amendment 22 by 400 votes to 220.
This amendment would have ensured that nothing in the bill could have limited the power of government to seek an extension in their own way.
Was that the one that was defeated?
I get the feeling remainer MPs have tasted blood now....
Is it too early to be hoping that the brexiteers might just have the whole thing swept from under them?
Second largest government defeat in modern times
The government was defeated on amendment 22 by 180 votes.This makes it the second biggest defeat in modern times.
The biggest ever defeat was the first meaningful vote on the prime minister's deal.
Imagine hitting all those records....
Imagine hitting all those records….
I think that gives her 3 of the top 5 defeats now. Maybe she wants to clean the board.
Wonder who is paying the bills for Sir Lynton Crosby (the fact he is a knight renders the honours system pointless on its own) companies astroturf campaigns on facebook to try and pressure MPs to vote out.
The amendment tabled by Anne Main has been defeated by 488 votes to 123.
The Conservative MP's amendment would have place a limit on an extension to Article 50.
I'm thinking this one might go the right way....
if the people demand it, then their leaders are duty bound to give them one. Democracy in action?
Jesus christ, why do you still keep trotting out this bollocks?
MPs are duty bound to act in the interests of their country in the first instance and their constituency in their second. They are not duty bound to give in to demands from outside influences (and if they were then parliament would no longer be sovereign, and I hear that's really important to a lot of people).
You seem to be assuming that I’m against a public vote. I’m not. I have concerns that it will cause more problems than it will resolve, which is why it shouldn’t be imposed against what the people want.
See above. I agree that there's a danger that it'll cause problems (which is in part why I'm against having one), but "what the people want" is no reason not to have one, that's just a non sequitur.
What the people think they want is an irrelevance in a representative democracy.
Wonder who is paying the bills for Sir Lynton Crosby (the fact he is a knight renders the honours system pointless on its own) companies astroturf campaigns on facebook to try and pressure MPs to vote out.
Well, isn't that a very interesting question. I was wondering the same thing earlier today. They've spent a -vast- amount of money on targeted propaganda in the last few months.
Hammond on Peston acknowlging that No Deal is likely to trigger an independence refrendum in NI
I think that is inevitable now, the way the government & the DUP have treated NI & ireland in this process, we should be prepared for this either way, and all the upheaval that could bring.
As much as it is highly amusing to watch both labour and the Conservatives collapse because of thier own selfish ideals of party before people, we now need a functional government.
What the people think they want is an irrelevance in a representative democracy.
Well I guess this is the crux of where we differ as I view representative democracy as inferior to direct democracy, which is why I defend direct democracy on the rare occasion it is employed. Also I think the view of the people towards their MPs is changing from the representative model to something more direct. Most probably as a result of the internet I guess, but it's a change for the better IMO.
'kinell that Lammy video nails this reason we are in this mess perfectly
One of the beauties of lambing time is I get to legitimately stay up for half the night. I ust say the live feed from the HOC is some of the best entertainment I have had for ages 🙂
Was that the biggest ever defeat I just witnessed of the Rees Mogg amendment?
I like Lammy a lot, I disagree with him on some things but on balance, I'd rather see him as PM than the shit shower of incompetent weasels we have at the moment.
Well I guess this is the crux of where we differ as I view representative democracy as inferior to direct democracy, which is why I defend direct democracy on the rare occasion it is employed.
We don't necessarily differ on that, I don't really have an opinion either way (or rather, I probably would but I'd have to go away and think about it first).
The thing you seem to be continually missing / ignoring though is, the UK is not a direct democracy. We do not have any capacity for such a thing in English law. If an act of Parliament had been enacted to legislate for mandatory referendums before the 2016 referendum took place then you might well have a very good point indeed, but it wasn't, so you don't.
Ie, what you or I may think is an inferior or superior system here is again an irrelevance. It has no legal bearing.
The bill passes by ONE vote. 313 votes in favour, 312 against
Lol
I like Lammy a lot
It was a good speech.
To go the other way listening to the debate now. That Francois really is a tosser. His latest shite.
Watching the Cooper Bill pass was wonderful. Watching TC Francois self combust afterwards was absolute gold.
Its a shame most politicians are too scared or to stupid to make a pragmatic and honest speaches.
I wish Francois was on Twitter, the odious twerp.
Watching TC Francois self combust afterwards was absolute gold.
When the last set of indicative votes went bad for the government he trotted out a coup against the government line, why the reporter didnt bring up the fact he has voted against the government repeatedly on this I don't know.
There has to be a tipping point where policy trumps (deliberate) angry little men ranting.
We shall fight them on the (green) benches, we shall fight them on the doorsteps and in the lobby's.
Comments on the express article are comedy gold.
How dare our sovereign parliament be un sovereign?
We voted to leave to be sovereign...
“80% of people voted for brexit supporting parties”,
that quote is a dangerous one for Labour
it reminds millions of voters not to vote labour again as it will be used against them by brexiters
Exactly where I am, in a remainer constituency, with a good backbench Labour MP campaigning for a PV. Fwiw.
As I stated before, when the Labour party try to play both sides, and ultimately enable Brexit, f them. What's the fING point of them? You may just as well go balls deep and vote for whatever minority party you want and accept inevitable Tory rule, because Labour, even against the shitest Tory government ever, are f***ING nowhere. They are adding zero value.
accept inevitable Tory rule, because Labour, even against the shitest Tory government ever, are f***ING nowhere. They are adding zero value.
Not a great approach. So you don't like the tactics Labour is using on Brexit so you would rather have a tory party continuing to do all the damage it is doing to people's lives. You don't think a lot of those peoples lives may be a bit better under Labour?
Brexit is irrelevant, it is the polices that Tory or Labour put in place that matter (before or after Brexit)
f them. What’s the fING point of them?
That’s a pretty childish and ultimately self-defeating opinion if you’re a natural labour voter. Can you really not see that labour need to have a policy that will allow them to keep most of their northern brexit voting seats? Throwing your dummy out of the pram because you don’t get your own way is pretty stupid, although you’re in good company on here.
Brexit is irrelevant
It really isn't. Remember, we're in the easy phase of Brexit at the moment. The hard work for parliament comes after we leave. Wherever policies they are telling you they will implement will just take a backseat to more of this frantic circlejerking that passes for leadership these days.
Led by donkeys projected this on the white cliffs of Dover.
Can you really not see that labour need to have a policy that will allow them to keep most of their northern brexit voting seats?
That's the point, labour have to choose who they abandon; their remain voters or their Brexit voters
At some point they'll have to pick a side, now that the old party lines have been broken.
Living in the past is not going to work for them.
Can the Lords block the Cooper Bill?
I think they can delay it by voting it down or significantly amending it (both of which send it back to the commons for another vote), same as for any other piece of legislation. Given that we're only talking about a week at most, I would expect some attempt at filibustering it.
kerley, dazh,
I'll just leave this here
Magic Grandad is ignoring the majority of his own supporters.
The notion earlier in the thread that labour would be ignoring "50% of voters" is nonsense when only a minority of labour members and voters support brexit.
If he's not prepared to face them down and argue against them then he's no better than May and the ERG.
He has ignored the illegality of the referendum, the majority of his own supporters and his own party policy.
There is no kool aid strong enough for me to see past all that.
In other news .. I feel less boned after last nights shenanigans in parliament. I hope it wasn't just a dream.
Aye, bang on. Grow a pair of baws Obi-wan.
I would vote for a good labour government in a heartbeat. But we have a Corbyn. He pushes away all the moderates you need to win.
If he manages to secure a R2 I might vote for him. If he just enabled this current cluster**** then no way. I will NEVER vote Tory again, so it looks like I’m consigned to LD/Green/Indy.
At least my conscience will be clear.
Well I guess this is the crux of where we differ as I view representative democracy as inferior to direct democracy, which is why I defend direct democracy on the rare occasion it is employed.
I think there is a good reason it is rarely used.
Nice to see Francois frothing. he needs to go away and leave politics to the grown-ups.
Lords unlikely to block it, I have seen it mentioned that the "whipping" communication sent out to Tory peers in "come if convenient". Could be a code of course.
At least my conscience will be clear.
Good for you. Mine wouldn't be if I was helping to keep a Tory party in power for ever.
I don't care about Corbyn, I don't care about pushing moderates (read tories) away. What I care about is policies that actually help people and make for a fairer and better society.