laughable when the EUs regional development fund spent £13bn on the UKs poorest regions over the last 7 years
It would be laughable if people realised irrespective of Brexit / EU that these places have been massively under-invested in decades.
Governments should be investing irrespective.
AS every brexit impact assessment warns that these regions will be hit hardest by Brexit, we will sadly be seeing the opposite of that I suspect
Funny because I know all those places extremely well, and they thing they have in common, with the possible exception of Stockport, is they have all undergone a massive transformation in the past 20 years which has gentrified the city centres, brought in lots of non-locals, and pushed the native working class population to the fringes.
I wouldn’t say that’s true of Wirral, it’s had no regeneration (Birkenhead/Rock Ferry/New Ferry etc).
Liverpool city centre has had a massive regeneration and there’s a huge student population but I wouldn’t say the native working class have been pushed out to the fringes.
Birkenhead has had some regeneration, bus station apparently (eu funded) but its still on the whole a troubled area
New Brighton has had a lot of money (including from the EU) & the redevelopments there are a big improvement
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/17-things-european-funding-done-10925208
Clive Lewis was on tv saying the poorest areas have had £16bn worth of cuts in last however many years under Tories.
Clive Lewis was on tv saying the poorest areas have had £16bn worth of cuts in last however many years under Tories.
So if someone robbed me of £100 and then offered me £10 of it back on condition that I helped them out of a problem of their own making, what should my reply be?
Answers on a postcard.
As bribes go, it's a really, really shit one, isn't it?
1.6 billion over 7 years? Chris Grayling could spaff more than that in one accident-prone morning.
To me it just perfectly illustrates the contempt in which we're held. Oh, just bung them some loose change and they'll be happy. Look.... you can have some shiny beads as well
Christ, I *ing hate these Tory *s!!
£5.5bn was/will be spent between 2016 and 2022 just on Tube modernisation.
in London.
And the entire rest of the country is meant to be glad for a third of that, as a one off, to make up for the brexit shambles. It wouldn't even pay for three tube station refurbs!
It’s the fundamental principle on which this entire country is built, do you really want to mess with that?
It's not really tho is it. We live in a representative democracy where the population get regular opportunities to elect some one to act on their behalf. That's the fundamental principle of our political system; we aren't a direct democracy.
We are messing with that by putting the responsibility for monumentally complex decisions in the hands of people who are unable to give the appropriate level of thought to it.
Daily Mash has a better bribe:
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/everyone-who-voted-leave-to-get-1000-worth-of-chips-20190304183161
We are messing with that by putting the responsibility for monumentally complex decisions in the hands of people who are unable to give the appropriate level of thought to it.
I agree, but the ship has sailed. Once the people get a vote they expect it to be carried out. If the voting public can’t understand things like Brexit, how are they going to get their heads around suspending democracy under special circumstances, especially when it’s because the losers don’t like the decision they made?
@dazh, I get what you are saying. But what happens when you give them the brexit they voted for, and they find that they were wrong, things could be worse - and now they are? What will they do then? Because I'm pretty sure they aren't going to say "we're really sorry we've screwed the country, can we please just put it all back the way it was?"
I agree, but the ship has sailed. Once the people get a vote they expect it to be carried out. If the voting public can’t understand things like Brexit, how are they going to get their heads around suspending democracy under special circumstances, especially when it’s because the losers don’t like the decision they made?
theyre going to be even more pissed off when the 3 years of withdrawl agreement negotiations are over we start on the next decade of trade talks & they realise we'll never actually leave Europe, immigrants keep coming & theres less money for schools, councils, NHS etc etc
theyre going to be even more pissed off when the 3 years of withdrawl agreement negotiations are over we start on the next decade of trade talks & they realise we’ll never actually leave Europe, immigrants keep coming & theres less money for schools, councils, NHS etc etc
Future problems are always massively discounted in people's heads.
Never before has the phrase "We'll cross that bridge when we get to it" been so apt.
It's more of a 'We'll burn that bridge when we come to it..'
Europe 1 announced 8-hour queues at ports this morning as French customs apply post-Brexit style checks, and that without any post-Brexit paperwork to deal with.
Europe 1 announced 8-hour queues at ports this morning as French customs apply post-Brexit style checks, and that without any post-Brexit paperwork to deal with.
Really !! Conditions described as fluid. Industrial action caused freight delays earlier, but nothing new there.
French customs' Industrial action
Due to a social movement by the French customs, lorries congestion on the A16 both ways. Please follow the diversion in place. We are running a full service and doing everything possible for customers once French controls cleared.Take care
Industrial action caused freight delays earlier, but nothing new there.
The so-called "industrial action" was the customs officers applying post-Brexit style checks:
I don't know where you get your news, Taxi, but it's leave propaganda lying by omission..
The so-called “industrial action” was the customs officers applying post-Brexit style checks:
Even my school boy french is enough to make out that the article you link to Edukator, suggests that the customers officers are on strike.
Des douaniers de Calais et Dunkerque étaient lundi en grève
Edit: It goes on to say they're unhappy about the "night hours" they work. They're applying post Brexit style delays as a from of protest
Context is key though, the simple translate this page feature in a moder browser would have told you more than looking for a word.
Customs officials from Calais and Dunkirk were on Monday on strike "unlimited" zeal at the call of an inter-union to do the "demonstration of what will happen with the Brexit ", creating long queues of trucks . Several miles of the A16 leading to the Channel Tunnel, long lines of trucks were almost stopped, in the middle of the afternoon, there were journalists from AFP.
Protest or illustration of the situation, its good to give people a good idea what is going to happen. It could be called an exercise and deliver the same result. I assume the British government has one organised for the UK side to make sure we are ready.
It could be called an exercise and deliver the same result.
Sure, I don't disagree with you. But let's at least be honest about the cause.
Yes it's the implementation of post bad brexit level checks on trucks. Don't confuse the cause with the intent.
I don’t know where you get your news, Taxi, but it’s leave propaganda lying by omission..
So aggressive again Edukator !!
You posted 8 hour delays, my information comes from the eurotunnel passenger information website. The point of you posting was to imply post brexit 8hour delays will be the norm. And you accuse me of spreading propaganda 😂
For a so-called 'reluctant leaver' you do seem quite strident in your desire to conduct pro-Leave psyops. Almost textbook, in fact.
Curious.
The point of you posting was to imply post brexit 8hour delays
I wasn't implying anything, I was stating what I heard on the news with a link to back it up.
Taxi25 clearly stated he would vote leave at the start of this thread and did not retract any time before the vote, dannyh. He continues to post pro-Brexit nonsense and gets annoyed when called out for posting incorrect or misleading information.
I assume the British government has one organised for the UK side to make sure we are ready.
I assume you've forgotten who the Transport Secretary is then?
The point of you posting was to imply post brexit 8hour delays will be the norm.
Until somebody releases their modelling (it's not that complex a study) or does another trail this would be a good guide to the delays. To reduce the delay we would need to speed up the process or remove some of the steps. Which is the one that is going to happen?
you do seem quite strident in your desire to conduct pro-Leave psyops.
Show me were I've posted anything "pro" leave ? I don't belive there are any. But I also don't belive the project fear obsesion on on here is a healthy place to be. All I try to do is put a slighty more optimistis side to a poor situation.
Taxi25 clearly stated he would vote leave at the start of this thread and did not retract any time before the vote, dannyh. He continues to post pro-Brexit nonsense and gets annoyed when called out for posting incorrect or misleading information.
Don't worry - I am fully aware - it doesn't take Columbo to figure it out.
this would be a good guide to the delays
It might be...The article goes on to list the customs official's issues, the poor pay for what they see as hard and dangerous work at night, and the fact that they think 800 extra officers may not be enough to "move a border" There is though (regardless of whether you're a leaver or remainer) a difference between a strike/work to rule, and a normal day.
I just think there's enough fake news/propaganda floating about (you just need to read the Sun's version of this story) I don't think you can take one day's strike and conclude this is what it will look like, post Brexit.
To reduce the delay we would need to speed up the process or remove some of the steps. Which is the one that is going to happen?
The French customs union think it will need more than the currently proposed 800 extra officers, that's clear enough.
and gets annoyed when called out for posting incorrect or misleading information
Relative to my post earlier,what was incorrect or misleading ? I just pasted stuff from the eurotunnel web site, which stated there wasn't current delays but had been due to industrial action. It appears this action (based on Educators link, which I can't read) took the form of implementing post brexit procedures.
I don't feel procedures implemented as a part of industrial action accurately reflect how things will be.
@ dannyh and Edukator, most people don't see everything as completely black or white, good or bad things are normally just grey.
@ dannyh and Edukator, most people don’t see everything as completely black or white, good or bad things are normally just grey.
The last time I accidentally hit my thumb with a hammer, it didn't hurt quite as much as the previous time.
Does this mean hitting my thumb with a hammer is a good thing?
Does this mean hitting my thumb with a hammer is a good thing?
I'd never say it was. But worrying about hitting your thumb with a sledge hammer when you're using a claw hammer is pretty pointless.
Show me were I’ve posted anything “pro” leave ?
Click on "taxi25" > Forums > Replies created, then read posts with the heading "EU Referendum – are you in or out?"
You started as a clearly stated leave and are now a Brexit apologist trying to minimise or deny any adverse efffects of Brexit. I clearly stated "ports" and you switched it to "Eurotunnel" and you acused me of getting it wrong.
You might be hard of reading and understanding Taxi25, but don't assume other people are.
But worrying about hitting your thumb with a sledge hammer when you’re using a claw hammer is pretty pointless.
I would say that worrying about hitting my thumb with any hammer is logical.
Back to Brexit.
Are you seriously saying that Brexit should be allowed to go ahead simply because it might not quite be as bad as some people think it might be?
Or are you saying that it is going to be so much better than some people think it might be, that it is actually a good idea?
The first option is patently nonsense on a logical basis, but more likely to be true.
The second option makes sense on a logical basis, but even the most insane Brexiteer has given up pushing it because it never survives its first contact with reality.
Hint - I am setting a trap for you here.........
Goodbye Mini?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/05/bmw-mini-cowley-no-deal-brexit-toyota
I would have to put that down as a darker shade of grey.
Note also Toyota (UK investment freeze since 2016) also having their say.
No one can say "we weren't warned".
Are you seriously saying that Brexit should be allowed to go ahead simply because it might not quite be as bad as some people think it might be?
Once again dannyh you're in la-la land. There is no debate about whether brexit should be 'allowed' to go ahead, that decision was made 3 years ago for better or worse. The debate now is how it should be implemented. Any views on that? Cos this pointless wailing about the unfairness of it all is is pretty boring.
There is no debate about whether brexit should be ‘allowed’ to go ahead, that decision was made 3 years ago for better or worse.
you obviously are not looking at that debate which is raging as we speak.
The debate now is how it should be implemented. Any views on that?
We have a deal on offer, that is the deal, no more negotiations. Time is up do you want that deal?
Cos this pointless wailing about the unfairness of it all is is pretty boring.
Sounds like you are just zoning out here, leavers have had their shot at negotiating the easiest deal in the history of deals, it's on the table right now. We have to make a choice to accept that, leave with nothing or remain.
Once again dannyh you’re in la-la land.
No. This is 2019. Brexit is doing untold harm to this country, and should either be stopped, or a compromise of EEA+CU sought. Carrying on as we are, claiming that the vote in 2016 mandates that we do, is nonsense.
The Tories are doing harm to this country yet we elected them again and accepted the result.
In my opinion staying in as is is not an option without another referendum. Judging by this forum remain would win by a landslide.
I suspect Leave could narrowly win. I also think that if we are to Leave, we need a long delay to get ready and minimise/spread the damage… and the best way to get that long delay is probably a referendum. So… whatever the result of a referendum… the country needs one… it won't get one though… as the resulting (further) damage to the Conservative party could see it never win a majority in parliament again in my lifetime… oh, and because of Corbyn&Milne&Fisher&Co's longstanding views on the EU… those in positions of real power in both parties will kill another referendum… some how… if they haven't already that is (which I think they have).
There is no debate about whether brexit should be ‘allowed’ to go ahead, that decision was made 3 years ago for better or worse. The debate now is how it should be implemented. Any views on that? Cos this pointless wailing about the unfairness of it all is is pretty boring.
There is a debate about whether Brexit should be allowed to go ahead. It is happening right now.
The decision was not made three years ago - although technically triggering A50 could be construed as indicating it should be started - but if you're referring to the advisory opinion poll of June 2016, then 'no'.
So, after dispelling (for what seems like the millionth time) the myth that our hands are somehow tied and we have to go through with this - I would like A50 revoked. Failing that, I would like to see a Peoples Vote - the result of which I would accept.
The conduct of the Leave campaign (or some very vocal parts of it) has been pronounced to be fraudulent. I would say this gave it an unfair advantage - particularly as the result of the advisory opinion poll was so close.
But I also don’t belive the project fear obsesion on on here is a healthy place to be. All I try to do is put a slighty more optimistis side to a poor situation.
I don't believe that blindly dismissing people's genuine concerns as "project fear" is a healthy place to be either. Project fear doesn't exist, it's a leaver myth intended - wildly successfully - to hand-wave anything they don't want to hear without requiring any further argument. That doesn't mean people aren't genuinely, justifiably, really scared.
Sure, it's laudable to be optimistic, but please be realistic also. It's all well and good standing on a train line going "well, I'm sure it'll be OK, the train driver will see me and stop" but if there's even the slightest whiff of possibility that you might, in fact, actually get hit by a train then surely you should seriously consider whether your actions are wise even if you truly believe it to be an unlikely outcome?
This is Risk Assessment 101, you analyse the likelihood of a problem occurring and the severity of its impact. If I did a RA for a system change at work and concluded "likelihood of failure = small; severity of failure if it occurs = very high" it'd immediately get the brakes slammed on the project whilst further analysis and mitigation could be undertaken. No-one, ever, goes ahead with a project thinking "it'll probably be OK but if it isn't then we're ****ed," that's P45 territory.