[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

mikewsmith - Member
The leave vote conned them, they are now going to find out what that means. Unfortunately for an area that has suffered so much it's going to be another set back.

Remind us again which bit of government you work for?
You can't operate a business like that, if you invest millions today then make a loss you could forsee tomorrow your an idiot.

Part time peanut munching bureaucrat I am.

Absolutely, with their invested millions they should not simply threaten a nation [b][u]before even knowing exactly[/u][/b] what the Govt/nation might do for them. Aren't they jumping the gun?

61%

I'm sure you mean 51%?

oldmanmtb - Member
Chewkw I am politically a centrist socialist I suppose? And have little time for extreme right or left as in practical terms the extremes always abuse one section of society or another -

I believe that politics is an extension of society and that includes business (Nissan for examle) that supports the well being of a community by offering well paid and secure employment

[url= http://nissaninsider.co.uk/nissan-reveals-half-year-2015-figures-for-uk/ ]Nissan half year 2015 figures[/url]

- for that community to vote for the potential degradation of that commitment is odd and indicates that some element of disinformation has occurred, I would bet my house on Sunderland Ship Builders NOT coming back to life post Brexit to pick up the slack.

Disinformation? Who have more information other than the people who work there together with the published information? Perhaps, the disinformation might come from the company themselves. Look at the link above or are they hiding something?

The shipbuilding industry disappeared under the EU watch is it not? In fact most EU shipbuilding industry disappeared under EU watch and only the high end luxury ships still being built in Denmark. How long before they too disappear let's see.

As the old saying goes you don't realise what you have until it's gone. It may take 10 years for the full impact of withdrawl by this type of business but it will happen as the bottom line is key to most organisations.

I am sure something will replace them as 10 years is a "long" time.

mrlebowski - Member

61%

I'm sure you mean 51%?

Nissan half year 2015 figures

Yep they sell a fair bit to the UK market - but that Sunderland plant punts out over half a million cars a year, which they also want to sell to Europe.

They can do that cheaper if they are not paying tarrifs on the incoming raw materials or outgoing cars.

I was referring to Sunderland vote - 61%

Speaking of votes:

[img] [/img]

From [url= http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/why-theresa-may-must-tell-sunderland-and-nissan-what-she-means-by-brexit-means-brexit-1-8157395 ]this story[/url] in the Sunderland Echo last Friday.

The Nissan plant at Sunderland employs 7,000 people and produces 1 in every 3 cars the UK manufactures.

Asked at the Paris Motor Show what factors the company would consider in deciding where to build any future model, company boss Carlos Ghosn told said: "If I need to make an investment in the next few months and I can’t wait until the end of Brexit, then I have to make a deal with the UK government.

"You can have commitments of compensation in case you have something negative. If there are tax barriers being established on cars, you have to have a commitment for carmakers who export to Europe that there is some kind of compensation."

His remarks indicate a growing concern among global carmakers that Britain could be heading towards a so-called 'hard Brexit', which would leave them paying tariffs to export UK-assembled cars to EU markets.

Mr Ghosn told reporters that the Sunderland plant would lose competitiveness [b]if Britain was left dealing with the EU under World Trade Organisation rules - rather than as part of the Single Market - which would effectively add 10% to the cost of a UK-built model[/b].

The plant's future could "without any doubt" be harmed unless there was a way to overcome the extra cost, he added.

-- [url= http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/nissan-wants-guarantee-brexit-compensation-11958901 ]Chronicle, 29th Sep 2016[/url]

I'm sure chewkw will say "Ah see.. asking for a favour" but why would Nissan, a French-owned company, keep a major manufacturing plant here and suffer a 10% hit in costs when they could move it elsewhere in Europe, where they might also benefit from lower wage costs?

Renault/Nissan and the other car producers. Fall in £ equal to or greater than WTO tariff on cars (rough calc) so in € terms the UK is a cheaper place to produce than Europe as it stands.

Also as noted on Sky today the car manufacturers told us not joining the € would negatively impact investment. That turned out to be total bollix. Who'd have thoight it ?

Mid Jan for A50 is the rumour.

Renault/Nissan and the other car producers. Fall in £ equal to or greater than WTO tariff on cars (rough calc) so in € terms the UK is a cheaper place to produce than Europe as it stands.

So they might hang on for a bit while our economy is messed up, but I keep hearing that we have a glorious bright economic future ahead of us, so will they still be here when the pound is flying high and the Euro has tanked?

Renault/Nissan and the other car producers. Fall in £ equal to or greater than WTO tariff on cars (rough calc) so in € terms the UK is a cheaper place to produce than Europe as it stands.

GrahamS - Member
From this story in the Sunderland Echo last Friday.

GrahamS - Member
The Nissan plant at Sunderland employs 7,000 people and produces 1 in every 3 cars the UK manufactures.

[u]Top 10 Nissan Markets[/u]

[url= http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2016/_STORY/160204-03-e.html ]Nissan Global [/url]

Country Total Sales Market Share
U.S. 1,484,918 8.5%
China* 1,250,073 5.3%
Japan 589,046 11.7%
Mexico 348,941 25.8%
UK 169,247 5.6%
Canada 129,976 6.8%
Russia 128,713 8.0%
France 77,200 3.6%
Germany 74,596 2.2%
United Arab Emirates 66,839 15.9%

GrahamS - Member
From this story in the Sunderland Echo last Friday.

GrahamS - Member
" ... If there are tax barriers being established on cars, you have to have a commitment for carmakers who export to Europe that there is some kind of compensation."

Mr Ghosn told reporters that the Sunderland plant would lose competitiveness if Britain was left dealing with the EU under World Trade Organisation rules - rather than as part of the Single Market - which would effectively add 10% to the cost of a UK-built model.

[b]They fear export tariff ... to where? EU?[/b]

[url= http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2016/_STORY/160204-03-e.html ]Nissan Global - Top 10 Nissan Markets[/url]

Country --- Total Sales -- Market Share
U.S. --- 1,484,918 ---- 8.5%
China* --- 1,250,073 ---- 5.3%
Japan --- 589,046 ------ 11.7%
Mexico --- 348,941 ------ 25.8%
UK --- 169,247 ------ 5.6%
Canada --- 129,976 ------ 6.8%
Russia --- 128,713 ------ 8.0%
France --- 77,200 ------- 3.6%
Germany --- 74,596 ------- 2.2%
UAE --- 66,839 ------- 15.9%

Political? You decide.

Did anyone say they feared an export tarrif?

France 77,200 3.6%
Germany 74,596 2.2%

France 607,173 26.4%
Brazil 181,504 7.3%
Germany 177,787 5.2%
Turkey 162,175 16.8%
Spain 156,108 13.1%
Italy 154,730 9.1%
United Kingdom 128,269 4.3%
Russia 120,411 7.5%
Algeria 90,182 35.6%
Belgium+Luxembourg 82,374 13.3%

They fear export tariff ... to where? EU?

People are not talking about companies upping and leaving but more a choice about where a new model is made. If a model is sent to another factory part of the UK plant will die off or not be reused. That impacts on the supply chain etc and makes it harder to get the next new model.

What is the sample size of that survey?
Who are the sample population?
Is the survey representative?
How many questions asked? One?

1) Says on it, 5527 votes.
2) Readers of the Sunderland Echo?
3) I'd imagine it is representative of the thoughts of people reading that story in the Sunderland Echo who decided to click on the online poll.
4) Yep one, same as the referendum. Not really enough for a proper answer is it?

They are doing/selling well.

Yes they must have rallied impressively given that just 3 hours ago you were saying they were "a brand on the way out" and you didn't expect the to survive. 😆

They fear export tariff ... to where? EU?

Yes, the EU.

[url= http://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/01/best-year-in-a-decade-for-british-car-manufacturing-as-exports-reach-record-high/ ]77.3% of cars built in the UK are for export.
And 57.5% of all UK car exports go to Europe.[/url]

mikewsmith - Member

France 77,200 3.6%
Germany 74,596 2.2%

So nearly as many cars to 2 EU countries as the UK buys

The renault figures are more interesting though - so if you were Nissan with a Strategic Partnership and had to decide where a new model was build which would you pic

The UK will start from square 1 post Brexit with no deals with any country in the world.

People are not talking about companies upping and leaving but more a choice about where a new model is made. If a model is sent to another factory part of the UK plant will die off or not be reused. That impacts on the supply chain etc and makes it harder to get the next new model.

GrahamS - Member

What is the sample size of that survey?
Who are the sample population?
Is the survey representative?
How many questions asked? One?

1) Says on it, 5527 votes.

2) Readers of the Sunderland Echo?

3) I'd imagine it is representative of the thoughts of people reading that story in the Sunderland Echo who decided to click on the online poll.

4) Yep one, same as the referendum. Not really enough for a proper answer is it?

Yes they must have rallied impressively given that just 3 hours ago you were saying they were "a brand on the way out" and you didn't expect the to survive.

Yes, the EU.
77.3% of cars built in the UK are for export.

And 57.5% of all UK car exports go to Europe.

So they sell more in Europe than the UK. That was easy the market within the EU is bigger than the one in the UK. Always good when people bring the facts the break their argument.

Why the concearn about going [b]BACK[/b] to a point that we have spent decade moving forward from. The UK has trade deals that are in place, after A50 there will be no deals apart from what is in place as part of the A50 negotiations (the ones that people are trying to rush and dump everything during).
So yes the UK will be at a disadvantage for the period post A50/Brexit.
If I wanted to make cars and ship them out and had a choice it would be from the EU as the UK market is [b]SMALLER[/b] For the future look at things like the Renault Traffic an that is the same as the Nissan one apart from a few bits, could make both in 1 factory and just ship the badges over.

Nissan is playing politics because of their Renault/French master.

A few facts:

80% of Nissan Sunderland's annual 500'000 build goes to the EU.

Nissan and Renault are an alliance, they each hold shares in the other.

All future models will be common platform. Juke/Captur. Micra/Clio. Qashqai/Kadja.

Renault have a lot of spare capacity.

Carlos Ghosn is ruthless, even closing Nissan plants in their own home country when he first took over.

There's nothing political about saying 10% on the cost of your product will make it uncompetitive.

He's re-iterating exactly what was said pre-referendum, the majority of large UK based businesses predicted Brexit would be 'a very bad thing for business'. You can't cry foul if that turns out to be the case and they don't play along with the madness.

Philip Hammond on R4 now, saying that foreign investment is slowing due to Brexit.

Is there anyway of blocking Chewkw's cut and paste posts? It's just meaningless gibberish.

There is an applet someone has written it's available free but I don't have a link, to be honest I just scroll past his/her posts.

Hammond on R4 was very interesting, what he said, what he implied and what he didn't say. Clearly a divided government.

I doubt the sound bites will do justice to the interview - I'd listen to the original.

Clearly a divided government.

Given their lack of leadership, this is Labour's only hope. Will the Tories self-destruct? Given the characters of the mad three, quite possible. So Labour just need to hide Corbyn away for a while.

THM - you've probably guessed that I self identify as centre left and other than starting dubious wars thought the Blair-Brown years were ok overall (bit more regulation of banks might have been good, but hindsight etc) but I keep forgetting that there is an opposition at the moment. They do seems to be reliving the Foot -v- Thatcher years.

Is there anyway of blocking Chewkw's cut and paste posts? It's just meaningless gibberish.

depends on your brower

80% of Nissan Sunderland's annual 500'000 build goes to the EU.

Thank you mdavids - that was the detailed figure my tired eyes couldn't find last night.

I'm assuming most if not all of the remaining 100,000 stays in the UK - given that they have 169,247 annual sales here?

Facing a potential 10% WTO tariff on 80% of their output I can see why they might be tempted to move production elsewhere.

oldnpastit - Member

Philip Hammond on R4 now, saying that foreign investment is slowing due to Brexit.

Bloody Remoaners

And the low £ doesn't help as much as one (Jamba this is your point here) might think as components are manufactured outside the UK and therefore the efficiency gain on exporting from a devalued currency area is lost to some extent on the imports to a devalued currency area.

Nissan are pretty good at sums and very economically ruthless.

There's plenty of scope for the government to mitigate the potential added cost of tariffs - we also shouldn't overlook that the Sunderland plant has a few unique qualities:

- Was (possibly still is) the most productive car plant in the world
- Configured to build several different models of car on the same line at the same time (lower Opex and avoidance of Capex)
- Flexible labour force (compared to Renault factories) and mature supply chain

In terms of the help the Government can provide there's quite a lot that would be attractive to Carlos Ghosn:

- extension of patent box principles so that platforms researched and developed and then made in the UK qualify for significant extra tax relief (this is something the EU is trying to stop the UK doing at the moment because it's helped us to increase foreign investment in strategic industries)
- Rebate on Business Rates (not possible under current EU roles but absolutely possible under our own rules)
- Acceleration of the existing initiatives that have already significantly improved the depth of the automotive supply chain in the UK. So more parts designed, developed and made here and at lower cost than imported components).

Consumer behaviour may also change if we get into "tariffs". I actually bought a Qashqai a few years back specifically because it was a good car and also made here - for me it was a choice of 2 cars one of which directly created jobs here... a no brainer. Faced with the choice of other models produced from within the EU and "punishment" tariffs from the EU there's the possibility British consumers may buy more home produced cars thus helping to mitigate any drop in export sales.

So 2 of the 3 options involve subsidising what within the eu is a profitable business, another great example of how brexit is awesome

That is what the Nissan boss is asking. He wants a good deal.

Just5 that is a good post, and makes some rare Brexit positives.

However, most of those benefits seem to be tax-rebate based, which if used more widely would result in a loss to the exchequer surely?

Faced with the choice of other models produced from within the EU and "punishment" tariffs from the EU there's the possibility British consumers may buy more home produced cars thus helping to mitigate any drop in export sales.

Yes but - for that to have an effect, factories would be having to make cars for just the UK market. And whilst we buy a lot of cars we don't buy as many as the rest of the EU.

But then again - I remember hearing about the wholesale cost of cars being much higher here than in the rest of the EU. So in effect the rich countries are subsidising the poor ones - you're paying a larger share of the car companies' profits than people in say Spain.

If the UK wasn't having to subsidise that then perhaps cars could become cheaper.

you're paying a larger share of the car companies' profits than people in say Spain.
If the UK wasn't having to subsidise that then perhaps cars could become cheaper

Is there anyway of blocking Chewkw's cut and paste posts? It's just meaningless gibberish.

Why don't you try continually insulting him, you appear to believe that's effective.

Corbyn may have been next to useless during the ref

Kimbers Corbyn's cintribution to the Referendum was very far from useless from a Leave perspective. In many respects he was true to his long held anti-EU beliefs

Car exports today are more competitively priced ie cheaper including any WTO tariffs today prior to Brexit vote.

If Nissan want to build the Qasquai elsewhere that's up to them. Ford closed the Transit factory in Southampton and moved it to Turkey.

Brits love cars and changing them regularly, we have a very valuable domestic market.

If Nissan want to build the Qasquai elsewhere that's up to them.

Are you saying that it's not important?

Car exports today are more competitively priced ie cheaper including any WTO tariffs today prior to Brexit vote.

Brits love cars and changing them regularly, we have a very valuable domestic market

Why don't you try continually insulting him, you appear to believe that's effective.

Ooh you really are sore about the Jambaliar bit arent you? You come up with the proof and I will happily apologise to you. You have been asked to provide proof but instead of doing so come up with the nonsense above. Come on you are better than that.

In terms of the help the Government can provide there's quite a lot that would be attractive to Carlos Ghosn

Yep, I suspect that's the sort of thing he is asking for.
I'm sure from a business perspective they'd rather avoid the expense (and potential bad PR) of shifting production facilities elsewhere, but they'll need a good reason to stay if the use of WTO tariffs mean the economics have changed.

If Nissan want to build the Qasquai elsewhere that's up to them.

Pretty dismissive given there are 7,000 jobs on the line in an area that isn't exactly booming to start with.

You'd happily wave off one third of the UK's car manufacturing?

[i]Flexible labour force (compared to Renault factories)[/i]

And don't underestimate how much easier it is to get rid of staff in the UK vs France/Belgium etc, plus 'politically' you can just blame Brexit even if the numbers don't (fully) add up.

If Nissan want to build the Qasquai elsewhere that's up to them.

So a price worth paying for Brexit then?

As long as you're not one of the 7000 direct or 30000 indirect employees, or you don't live in the North East so won't be affected by the massive reduction in money that pours in due to Nissan.

I'm sure they can console themselves with all the positive aspects of Brexit, like erm???

@Nipper just saw your question about the Human Rights Act. We will have our own Human Rights Acts overseen by our court system. As we are a founding member and major supporter of the International Criminal Court if people think we've done something wrong and the UK courts have not found in their favour they can take action against us there.

As Theresa and other's said yesterday all existing employment protection will remain in place whilst she is PM. As British laws will be made by British Parliament a future PM could change them as they and Parliament wish

The scaremongering about Human Rights and Employment Laws where just that, Referendum scaremongering.

As for May having been influenced by Fox etc's hard-Brexit I suggest the reality is she and the Government have looked at all the various options and have come to the conclusion that their approach is the bst way forward. Obviously I approve wholeheartedly of that as its the approach I favoured and proposed here although I admit I thought they'd fudge it a bit but apparently not 🙂

As British laws will be made by British Parliament a future PM could change them as they and Parliament wish

See, that worries me.

As for May having been influenced by Fox etc's hard-Brexit I suggest the reality is she and the Government have looked at all the various options and have come to the conclusion that their approach is the bst way forward.

Given the incredibly stupid things this government and the last have got up to, that means pretty much nothing. They've shown how stupid they are, or how they are playing political games rather than facing up to their own shitstorm.

Given the incredibly stupid things in Fox's recent speech its absolutely apparent that hes playing his own game of fantasy Brexit and will be sacked/resign again when the shitstorm does hit

[img] [/img]
From private eye

we are a founding member and major supporter of the International Criminal Court if people think we've done something wrong and the UK courts have not found in their favour they can take action against us there.

Eh?

[i]"The International Criminal Court (ICC) investigates and, where warranted, tries individuals charged with the gravest crimes of concern to the international community: genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity."[/i] ([url= https://www.icc-cpi.int/about ]Sauce: the ICC[/url])

Not exactly the right place to take individual human rights abuses to eh?

We are also founding members and major supporters of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights ]European Convention on Human Rights[/url] and the European Court of Human Rights, which IS intended for such cases.

The scaremongering about Human Rights and Employment Laws where just that, Referendum scaremongering.

Our participation in the ECHR is independent from our membership of the EU. The referendum wasn't about leaving the convention, much as it might suit some to pretend that it was.

As long as I can remember the investment strategy of the UK has been to attract foreign investment with the knowledge that those companies will make use of our more flexible working conditions but with easy acces to the EU.

I did a bit of googling on the subject a the U.K. does currently get the biggest % of foreign direct investment.

Now what's the plan?

Businesses don't just invest here for easy access to the EU though. They also invest here because (to name but a few):

- we have relatively low (and predictable) rates of corporation tax
- significant depth of expertise in law
- creative (sometimes too much so) and accessible finance / capital markets
- We have one of the world's largest stock markets and insurance markets

Anyone who has tried to set up a company in the eurozone will know how hard / bureaucratic the process can be compared to the UK.

@Nipper just saw your question about the Human Rights Act. We will have our own Human Rights Acts overseen by our court system. As we are a founding member and major supporter of the International Criminal Court if people think we've done something wrong and the UK courts have not found in their favour they can take action against us there.

Jambalya, now you really are talking rubbish. The thing with Human Rights is their universality and as such there is an importance in having a supranational tribunal to clarify and determine where breaches have occurred. I can refer you to the history and case law on Section 10 of the Contempt of Court as an example of an executive leaning British judiciary. The Human Rights Act is our act incorporating the convention directly into UK law so that it is applied directly in this country which is was not before 2000. Human rights are too important to be left to politicians, they serve to protect us from them and from the likes of you.

Human rights are quite often misunderstood by the more rapacious members of our society such as yourself and you would be well served by reading "A Paradigm of Philosophy: Hohfeld on Legal Rights" if you are remotely interested.

I'm not sure what human rights you think are less important and which are not dealt with by the ECHR or which you would like to do away with; I suspect your reasoning will be about not be able to deport foreigners and immigrants - I fully expect your response to begin with 'I'm not a racist but....'

Evan Putin's Russia is a signatory to the ECHR!

Meanwhile more cheery reading:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/01/gates-closing-tensions-rising-brexit-feels-tangible-and-frightening?CMP=fb_gu

Anyone who has tried to set up a company in the eurozone will know how hard / bureaucratic the process can be compared to the UK.

I'm still waiting for the referendum on a Free Yorkshire. If it's not free then it better be cheap.

Businesses don't just invest here for easy access to the EU though.

It's a big factor though. One that we've just voluntarily given up. Based on the opinion of people who can't tell a Syrian refugee from an EU migrant or an Asian immigrant.

So despite all the mumbo jumbo about 'sovereignty' and 'regulations', we've actually got it pretty good?

Had it (about as good as it gets)

Threw it away (to pander to the xenophobes)

Will suffer as a result (self-inflicted pain)

Madness

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

lolz

I hope you're not suggesting that JClarkson should be in charge Moly.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-justice-european-union-boris-johnson-2016-9
Better watch out Jamba!

😆

@Nipper well we are going to see what happens aren't we, we will be having our own Human Rights Bill overseen by our own courts. In 5 or 10 years we can review what happened. By the way you cannot forgive me enjoying every single minute of our exit from the EU, it was something I thought would never happen, to be given a Referendum, to win it against all the establishment odds and then to see what for me is the best solution a hard Brexit delivered cleanly and quickly.

Europe is in desperate trouble financially, really desperate. Hungary just voted 98% to reject just 1000+ refugees, Austria will re-run it's Presidential Election, Marine Le-Penn could win in France and has certainly changed the landscape. Holland next ? The EU and Junker have had their heads in the sand and pressed on with the political project against the wishes of so many of Europeans. They are the architects of their own downfall.

Better watch out Jamba!

🙂

Bring it on, they need £2m they have £145k. I won't be losing any sleep over it and they won't win a court case. Not a snowballs. Great work for them though if they can get it, £2m to trouser. Why don't you give them my contact details or maybe start your own prosecution against me ?

@tmh if you keep looking backwards you are going to turn into a 1970's relic like the Labour Party 8)

Two clear choices today - to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Two clear choices today - to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Third option - Try to steer the entire tanker away from the rocks before it's too late. There seems to be lots of support for this option too.

Two clear choices today - to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Also option 3 is still on the table, legally so for the commons to vote against the declaration of article 50, damm process. Sort of thing that I guess people want rid off. The PM and cabinet need to present a case to parliament that shows they have a good enough plan to make it work. Nothing to date shows that.
With a strong shift in public opinion possible how many mps could disobey?

Also a minor point can you find people moaning about losing a vote or just asking the sort of difficult questions people seem to want to avoid?

By the way you cannot forgive me enjoying every single minute of our exit from the EU, it was something I thought would never happen, to be given a Referendum, to win it against all the establishment odds and then to see what for me is the best solution a hard Brexit delivered cleanly and quickly.

Peyote - Member
Two clear choices today - to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum
Third option - Try to steer the entire tanker away from the rocks before it's too late. There seems to be lots of support for this option too.

tbh you're pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I'm thinking **** it, let's get on with it.

I also think making current EU just part for existing UK law and dealing with it down the line seems a pretty smart one, least on the face of it. should minimize legal disruption so they can concentrate on trade and let parliament deal with the laws as and when.

Jamba - that's a bit bleak. Do you not have any appealing choices to offer. I'm not accepting either of those ones.

I'm also going with making up my little list of quitter businesses that I'll never let have any of my cash again if I can help it. I'm not supporting folk who try to wreck my country. If Rosscore wants to forward me his business details I'll add him to the list. Same for you Jamba.

we will be having our own Human Rights Bill overseen by our own courts

Great! So when our own establishment violates our human rights we will be able to take the case directly to our own establishment and ask them to rule against themselves.

I'm sure that will work out much better than being able to take the case to an independent international court specialising in human rights law.

tbh you're pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I'm thinking **** it, let's get on with it.

You could be right, but I've always been an optimist rather than a realist 🙂

- to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Yeah we'll all have to make the best of out of it as we loose 4% of growth up to 2020, and my industry looses jobs and finding to Europe. foreign holidays cost me and good cost me more but there's no way I'm going to stop complaining about the idiots who inflicted all this mess on the country.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/britain-begins-smart-logical-process-of-teaching-bloody-foreigners-a-lesson-20161003114690 ]The Mash nails it yet again[/url]

Two clear choices today - to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

FFS.

Do you really think I've got a list of Brexit To-Dos from Mrs May that I'm refusing to do out of spite?

I'll carry on doing my job for my employer as best I can, just like I did before. For as long as that job lasts, since I have worked mostly for banks it seems. But I will continue moaning about how stupidity from both the govenrment and the electorate has potentially ruined my country and my job, and taken from me something that I held dear.

I hope I'm dead wrong about the economy, and I might be, but I will never get back the ability to easily experience life in other countries. That'll be gone forever. And yes it was very important to me.

I'll carry on doing my job for my employer as best I can, just like I did before. For as long as that job lasts, since I have worked mostly for banks it seems.

But I will continue moaning about how stupidity from both the govenrment and the electorate has potentially ruined my country and my job, and taken from me something that I held dear.

Was there a point to that riposte 5e?

No, just amusing myself.

[i]tbh you're pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I'm thinking * it, let's get on with it.[/i]

I'm thinking f it, you lot got us into this mess, sort it while I sit on the sidelines and ensure that we (as a family) protect ourselves from the 5h1tstorm.

5thElefant - Member
No, just amusing myself

A worthy post time, no doubt, doesn't contribute much though

So Jamba looking forward to be being evicted from France? I am sure Le Pen would take issue with foreigners stealing french jobs?

Does Jamba actually work?

Bring it on, they need £2m they have £145k. I won't be losing any sleep over it and they won't win a court case. Not a snowballs. Great work for them though if they can get it, £2m to trouser. Why don't you give them my contact details or maybe start your own prosecution against me ?

Don't flatter yourself. You are a no one.

You won't be allowed to bury your lies on here though. We can do that for free 🙂

I'd like to make the most of the "opportunities" of brexit but right now we have our hands full trying to deal with the damage it's already caused, before it even starts. Hurrah!

Not so good if you are an EU migrant.
Planning to move anyway but worried about my pension contributions.
Also we were planning on renting our UK house but with the £ dropping we won't get as much as we'd hoped.

b r - Member
tbh you're pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I'm thinking * it, let's get on with it.

I'm thinking f it, you lot got us into this mess, sort it while I sit on the sidelines and ensure that we (as a family) protect ourselves from the 5h1tstorm.

Armageddon isn't really going to happen though, is it? It's just the political situation that's changing, hardly like it's anything that really matters...

My instinct is that Britain will look like Britain in a few years time, regardless.

From up there, maybe not.

But certain (big) parts of the economy might take a fair old hit.

My instinct is that Britain will look like Britain in a few years time, regardless

not sure if that's a comforting prospect.

Hungary just voted 98% to reject just 1000+ refugees

You can tell a lot I think by looking at whether people report the Hungary referendum honestly- as being invalid due to low turnout amidst a boycott- or dishonestly, as being a victory for the anti-immigration crowd. No surprises on here or in the UK press tbh

Telegraph- reports as "emphatically against" "a cry of defiance", mentions turnout as an aside and doesn't mention boycott at all, frinstance.
Guardian- discusses the boycott and the validity
Indy- as Guardian
Express- "New low for the EU- Brussels humiliated as 98% of Hungarians reject migrant quotas" (if you're going to lie, why not do it in the headline, validity described only as a "slight blow to Orban's pride", and no mention of boycott.

And so on.

[i]Armageddon isn't really going to happen though, is it? It's just the political situation that's changing, hardly like it's anything that really matters...[/i]

Seriously? 😯