[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Before claiming that the supposed doom-mongering hasn't come to pass, it's worth remembering we haven't actually left...pound certainly doesn't look happy at the prospect and as time passes major investment decisions will need to be made one way or the other.

Hole - digging - stop - deeper

re-arrange to suit 😉

Lol.
I hope you are a politician Ninfan, otherwise your career is wasted.

Rarely have so many voices agreed with me in unison, that no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS,

So far, the only people who seem to have believed the 'lie' that they [u]think[/u] was written on the bus (but actually wasn't) have been remainers.

maybe they're the stupid and gullible ones?

I suppose they must be to think that the EU is a good thing...

maybe they're the stupid and gullible ones?

So far, the only people who seem to have believed the 'lie' that they think was written on the bus (but actually wasn't) have been remainers.

This is what Jamby does and why folk call him a liar

Stop BS ninfan you are better than this

[b]Nigel Farage has disowned a pledge to spend £350 million of European Union cash on the NHS after Brexit.
The Ukip leader was asked on ITV’s Good Morning Britain programme whether he would guarantee that the money pledged for the health service during the campaign would now be spent on it.

Speaking on the morning of the referendum result he however said he had never made any such pledge.

“No I can’t [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made,” he said.[/b]

[quote=ninfan ]Rarely have so many voices agreed with me in unison, that no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS

OK then mr clever clogs, if that's the level of pedantry you have to stoop to in order to support the Brexit BS, would you care to point out to me where anybody* has claimed that Brexit did say they were going to spend £350 million on the NHS? I want those [b]exact[/b] words if you're going to continue to support this particular line of BS.

*apart from Nigel Farage as quoted up there by JY - I don't think him claiming that particularly supports your assertion about remainers BSing.

Do you want the Farage quote again

Why would you expect me to value the opinion of a bloke who you keep reminding us is backed by fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists?

Farage has an opinion, but you've still been unable to point me to anyone who [i]actually[/i] promised to spend this money on the NHS.

you can come forward with lots of [i]inferred, suggested, indicated[/i] and [i]hypothecated[/i] but still a complete lack of [i]promised[/i] like you've seen weeks claiming they said

still, whatever, remainers gonna bullshit...

Here you go ninfan:

[img] [/img]

Ninfan, you know full well that given that VL was not a government it could not promise anything. So your false argument falls over immediately. Beyond that there is ample evidence of BSers stating that the £350m could be spent on the NHS. Admittedly, it varies from the website that said "NHS and other priorities" to leading spokesman like Gove who chose to lie more blatantly and make the link directly.

Watch Gove and read the VL website. Its all there.

you've still been unable to point me to anyone who actually promised to spend this money on the NHS.

This is the political equivalent of saying [i]"I had my fingers crossed"[/i] or [i]"Aaah.. but I didn't say 'Simon Says' we'll spend 350m on the NHS, did I?"[/i].

oldnpastit posted a nice image of Boris stood in front of a great big campaign sign saying [i]"Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week"[/i]

Here's another one to save you going back a page:

[img] [/img]

Is the new rule in post-truth politics that you can base your campaign around any promise you like as long as you don't actually use the word "promise"?

Amazing stuff. I look forward to the next election:

[img] [/img]

😆

Interesting article in today's Guardian on [url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/01/100-days-after-brexit-what-does-theresa-may-do-next ]100 days after Brexit[/url]

When even Tory backbenchers are describing the utter tripe being spouted about what a post-brexit economy will look like, by the three [s]stooges[/s] brexiteers, particularly Liam Fox, as 'totally delusional' then you know we're in trouble

Why would you expect me to value the opinion of a bloke who you keep reminding us is backed by fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists?

So far, the only people who seem to have believed the 'lie' that they think was written on the bus (but actually wasn't) have been remainers.

As others note you are just talking crap we all know what they did; even Nigel accepts it and I dont think he is a remainer.

[img] [/img]

Obviously not a "promise" though eh? Just what Gisela Stuart, co-chair of Vote Leave, said she would do "if I had that control".

The fact there is no £350 million (as the article explains) is apparently irrelevant as well.

([url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36040060 ]BBC News: Reality Check: Would Brexit mean extra £350m a week for NHS?[/url])

If they didn't actually [i]mean[/i] £350 million for the NHS, then what exactly did they mean??

[img] [/img]

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious:
remainers "BS" - suggesting that they promised* to spend £350m on the NHS instead of the EU when they actually used slightly different weasel words
leavers BS - well thanks for giving us a great example to discuss

*though ninfan is yet to provide any evidence that anybody did suggest those exact words had been used

So far, the only people who seem to have believed the 'lie' that they think was written on the bus (but actually wasn't) have been remainers.

[img] [/img]

[quote=ninfan ]So far, the only people who seem to have believed the 'lie' that they think was written on the bus (but actually wasn't) have been remainers.

Actually this is just more BS, and in two different ways - it's almost as if somebody had asked "please give us examples of leavers BS" and ninfan was helping out. Firstly can ninfan provide a single example of a remainer who actually believed that lie (there is a difference between believing the lie and believing that the lie was made in case that is confusing you). Secondly it seems rather strange to make the claim/connection between the supposed amount spent on the EU and spending on the NHS, and to make such a big thing about it, if it didn't influence any leave voters.

make your mind up aracer

one minute you claim that nobody said they thought it was a promise, then you reckon that loads of people voted out on the basis of the promise.

[quote=ninfan ]make your mind up aracer

😆

one minute you claim that nobody said they thought it was a promise, then you reckon that loads of people voted out on the basis of the promise.

Can you provide evidence for either of those assertions? [b]Exact[/b] words

Its fairly easy to find where people claimed it was a promise: http://bfy.tw/7ynU

you either have to accept that both sides told deliberate mistruths/lies//canards and that one side was better at it than the other was

or accept that neither side really 'lied' but manipulated, misrepresented and exaggerated facts in the way that politicians always do, and that one side was better t it than the other was

All the bluff, bullshit and bluster from the remain side about 'back of the queue' '£4300 per household' and 'the end of western political civilisation as we know it' was just as bad as anything from the remain side

you lost - get over it

[quote=ninfan ]Its fairly easy to find where people claimed it was a promise: http://bfy.tw/7ynU

Congratulations. It's a shame that the question was which remainers were claiming it was a promise and your clever dick link doesn't really help. Maybe you'd like to try finding some evidence rather than expecting other people to do your work for you. Remember that given your criteria we want [b]exact[/b] words or it doesn't count.

you either have to accept that both sides told deliberate mistruths/lies//canards

No, I really don't, not given you're still failing to provide direct evidence to back that up, and some of your claims are quite clearly BS. Nor do I have to get over the fact that we are facing major political and economic upheaval because 37% of the electorate voted for it, despite the majority of those not understanding what exactly they were voting for, and voting that way for lots of different reasons the majority of which aren't going to be met whatever deal is done.

Maybe you need to get over the fact that to borrow the words of Nigel Farage, the vote was so close that it is unfinished business and it is just as reasonable for people to be opposed to the current status quo as it was for people to be opposed to the status quo before the vote.

All the bluff, bullshit and bluster from the remain side about 'back of the queue'

How is [url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/22/barack-obama-brexit-uk-back-of-queue-for-trade-talks ]quoting the US President[/url] [i]"bluff, bullshit and bluster"[/i] FFS??

The White House [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/eu-referendum-what-the-world-is-saying---britains-historic-decis/ ]confirmed that sentiment[/url] on the day of the results.

The [i]'£4300 per household'[/i] claim - we don't know one way or the other yet, so bit early to call that a lie.

And the [i]'the end of western political civilisation as we know it'[/i] claim is basically just you exaggerating for effect. There is a difference between being [i]concerned[/i] about the social and political impacts of leaving the EU and saying it is the end of times.

you lost - get over it

So I should stop caring about my country?

Leave lost the EEC Membership referendum in 1975, and much more decisively too (67.2% remain, 32.8% leave) - that didn't stop them talking about it for 41 years.

Why should Remain shut up now?

Forget a spade ninfan, looks like you are using a JCB - oh wait a minute.....there's a link 😉

VL had five reasons to vote Brexit. None held up to scrutiny.

You lied - you won - how proud does that make you feel? Time for a TUE exemption??

you lost - get over it

And the 'the end of western political civilisation as we know it' claim is basically just you exaggerating for effect. There is a difference between being concerned about the social and political impacts of leaving the EU and saying it is the end of times.

No, it's not exaggerating for effect, it, quite remarkably, was an actual claim by the EC president:

"As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilisation in its entirety,"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36515680

But ninfan, that's not bullshit. It may happen yet. No-one said it would happen immediately.

[img] [/img]

you lost - get over it

Im trying to

but my funding ends in March
my industry has lost a huge chunk of its funding, so Im worrying about the future quite a lot

all so a bunch of lieing xenophobes can get a blue passport

Both sides told lies but Nissan Workforce in Sunderland is a lot closer to loosing £4300 than getting £350m spent on the NHS.

No, it's not exaggerating for effect, it, quite remarkably, was an actual claim by the EC president:

So not actually a claim/promise made by the Remain campaign then?

As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilisation in its entirety,"

Key word there is "beginning". Could take decades, so sit tight.

** STOP THE PRESS **

Ladies and Gentlemen: [b]A PLAN![/b] (sort of)

[img] [/img]

[url=

]"Road To Brexit", a story for grown-ups by Iain Duncan Smith[/url]

This summarises it nicely:

[img] [/img]

😆

kimbers - Member
you lost - get over it
Im trying to

but my funding ends in March
my industry has lost a huge chunk of its funding, so Im worrying about the future quite a lot

all so a bunch of lieing xenophobes can get a blue passport

I'm unhappy to read of your funding issue, is it likely to end immediately given we haven't actually gone anywhere yet or are your controlling powers using the moment to unsettle you in pay negotiations?

Personally I voted out for my own reasons, they were not because of the colour of my passport, or the immigration issue, my soon to be extended family are all immigrants and our dinner table at Christmas when they all gather is multi racial, cultural and contains at least five religious strains for us to banter about.

Nor was my vote swayed by either the leave or remain campaign although I did a fair bit of fb reposting for the fun of it, never thinking for one moment the vote would swing our way, like just about everyone else on the leave side, I was both shocked, excited and a little worried about the outcome.

So I know it's a healthy debate, well as healthy as a left leaning bulletin board like this can ever be, but I do think it should be more about what positive things can be derived from the future out of Europe. My own personal circumstances and profitability have suffered at the hands of the damn city boy speculation and the idiot Carney panicking in an attempt to make things look worse than they were, but even with this knowledge would I turn back the clock purely for my own individual profit? No, I genuinely still think this watershed moment will eventually serve us well, just as it did on black wednesday when we left the exchange rate mechanism and I lost tens of thousands as the £ crashed against the then deutche mark.

There are still serious issues hanging over us all as a result of the crash, a good read (and watch) is a book and movie called the Big Short which highlights just how bad things really were/are and have yet to be fully unwound. Europe hasn't even begun to deal with their issues and these current market worries with Deutche Bank and our own RBS have some way to go and are more likely to cause grief than us leaving the single market imv.

So what am I saying, I hope things go well for you, as I hope Germany can keep Europe motoring on, we are after all still going to trade with them all as I am, I'm really worried about this winter if and when they push the A50 button and the prices of my goods will again soar, but not much we can do about it now, winding each other up isn't going to help.

GrahamS. That is quality. Imagine my surprise when I followed the link and it didn't go to The Daily Mash.

So, brexiteers have discovered they quite like the single market after all... haha...

So Rosscore did you just vote Leave for ideology reasons?

Rosscore, that is a good post. However a huge part of the problem is the way things have happened, not just the end result.

If we'd had years of debate and years of debating, addressing the issues and working through, if we'd eventually come to the conclusion based on real evidence and experience that we really would be better off out, then that would be different.

However what we had was a political gamble by Cameron for the sake of his own credibility. He played a game and lost. That is NO way to run a country.

molgrips - Member
Rosscore, that is a good post. However a huge part of the problem is the way things have happened, not just the end result.

If we'd had years of debate and years of debating, addressing the issues and working through, if we'd eventually come to the conclusion based on real evidence and experience that we really would be better off out, then that would be different.

However what we had was a political gamble by Cameron for the sake of his own credibility. He played a game and lost. That is NO way to run a country.

Then GrahamS, well spotted, that makes excellent reading if only half of that comes to pass what a better place this country will be. A Plan indeed.

cchris2lou - Member
So Rosscore did you just vote Leave for ideology reasons?

No, genuinely I lost the results of twenty years of my life precisely because we are in the EU, my opposite number who's business in Switzerland is still enjoying what I helped build, but the centralisation process in Europe wiped out my little empire and our 30 odd staff, so yes I was bitter and it won't get me back what has gone, but the type of business I could rebuild if I have the enthusiasm for it would operate better out of the single market.

Then there is all the other stuff, read that Plan of GrahamS's link, it makes exciting reading.

There are still serious issues hanging over us all as a result of the crash, a good read (and watch) is a book and movie called the Big Short which highlights just how bad things really were/are and have yet to be fully unwound.

True but what does this have to d with our relationship with Europe?

Europe hasn't even begun to deal with their issues and these current market worries with Deutche Bank and our own RBS have some way to go and are more likely to cause grief than us leaving the single market imv.

Indeed, we remain overleveraged and once again Central Banks are flooding the economy with liquidity at a time of (un-naturally) low interest rates. Remember what happened the last time they did that?

But again, this has nothing to do with Brexit. Our membership of the EU is essentially about how we want to manage our economic relationship with our largest trading partner(s). But this was never at the heart fo the debate. Instead it was about the (irrelevant in this respect) structural issues (eg the folly of the €) which do not affect us directly. lies about our financial exposure to EZ debt issues with a healthy dollop of racism on top.

So we had an great situation with free and cheap trade, trading relationships negotiated with most of our major non-EU trading partners and non of the crap that goes with membership of Sturgeon's new favourite currency. Its hard to imagine how that could be bettered.

And now..... 😯

Fair enough, at least you have genuine reasons.

As for IDS plan, it won't happen. Why would the EU give free access to the single market?

Why would they offer the benefits of membership without the costs that they have to bear - they might be foreign but they are not stupid?

I think you all ought to spend a few minutes reading that Graham S thing in depth, it answers all your questions better than I can.

I'm unhappy to read of your funding issue, is it likely to end immediately given we haven't actually gone anywhere yet or are your controlling powers using the moment to unsettle you in pay negotiations?

I work in cancer research, and a quarter of public funding comes to UK science from the EU

Theres been no cuts so far

but science funding takes several years to secure, researchers are always thinking 3,5,10 years ahead to ensure the next grant is in place when the current one runs out

as the largest recipient of EU science money the UK has done incredibly well out of this, we are the top destination for science money and the best scientists across Europe. Its one of the reasons we are the best country in the world for science output per £/$ put in.
More so because our own government contributes much less than similar countries (france, germany etc) to research funding.
Our big universities such as Oxford and Cambridge attracted a huge amount of research their funding (20%) from the EU. As do private companies research departments like BT (25m) and Rolls Royce (50m).

all of this is up in the air now, European researchers who have been happily paying taxes and working here for many years are now uncertain of their future, many of my colleagues are already looking to return to Europe.

Some of our most prestigous science institutes that have helped shapoed global science are in jeopardy, including the Sanger centre that holds the European Bioinformatics Institute and projects like the Galileo stanav systems we all rely are are now in jeopardy.

While EU funding sources looking ahead are no longer considering the UK as a destination for collaborative or entirely UK based projects, really big initiatives like Horizon2020 and ERASMUS will continue the present funding until Brexit happens its been confirmed they will be closed to us when we leave. So the government will have to make up billions in investment just to continue projects currently running.

The very confused messages coming from government only make the situation much worse.

In the short term the falling pound has hit our research as much of our equipment and reagents (the largest proportion of any research grant) are imported and we have had to revise spending plans.
The prospect of more redtape and increased cost when securing visas for the best EU workers is also a worry (its much more hassle to recruit from outside the EU)
this is a great post that reflects on how much harder research in teh UK is if you are non-EU
http://scientistsforeu.uk/2016/05/brexit-american-scientist-perspective/

The full effects of this will not be felt for several years, just like Nissan halting investment in their sunderland plant
Even if we were to somehow stay within the EU/free market/ have access to EU funding, whats happening now will have a detrimental effect in the future.

https://www.ft.com/content/753b2a42-1c39-11e6-b286-cddde55ca122
https://www.ft.com/content/1f0d22c2-6619-11e6-8310-ecf0bddad227

rossocore

the problem with IDS 'Plan'

is that its pure fantasy

hence, his cake and eat it post

Will do Ross but distracted by golf and a rather nice bottle of SA red!

As for IDS plan, it won't happen. Why would the EU give free access to the single market?

Don't they know who we are!

I was kind of enjoying until the Redwood nonsense. And then some big putts went in. Might save it until tomorrow!!

.

you lost - get over it

No. I'm not obliged to get over the crass stupidity of this whole farce.

I see BoJo The Clown is supporting "Hard Brexit" now too. Excellent.

Mr Johnson told The Sun: "[b]Our policy is having our cake and eating it.[/b]

"We are Pro-secco but by no means anti-pasto".

..

Asked about his relationship with Brexit Secretary David Davis and Mr Fox, Boris replied: "We are a nest of singing birds.

"In fact I think Bob Marley once wrote a song which goes, ‘Woke up this morning, smiled with the rising sun, three little birds on my doorstep singing sweet songs.

"A melody pure and true.

"This is my message for you.

"Don't you worry about a thing cos every little thing is gonna be all right.'”

-- [url= https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1889723/boris-johnson-joins-forces-with-liam-foxand-declares-support-for-hard-brexit-which-will-liberate-britain-to-champion-free-trade/ ]The Sun[/url]

I am so very reassured. 😯

(also is it just me or does "Hard Brexit" sound like a Direct-to-DVD Steven Seagal film?)

you lost - get over it

IDS has a rather limited understanding of most things, but that's fine as he has always 'believed things to be true' even in the face of cast iron proof of the lack of truth of his assertions.

And he has such a great track record of getting things right doesn't he? No? really?

So in short, anything with his approval should be treated with intense suspicion and, quite frankly, derision

Don't they know who we are!

Ronnie Pickering?

I've spent a few minutes reading that doc, and yet to find anything other than fantasy or wishful thinking - I mean it makes a big positive out of the devaluation FFS. Maybe rosscore is a quicker reader than me and had already got to the bit at the end where they face reality.

We all lost.

Not all of us

[img] ?quality=90&w=650&h=357[/img]

1972 European Communities Act to be repealed on Day 1 of Brexit. Removing authority of ECJ imemdiately A50 is triggered.

Also further storiy confirming there will be no early election (uncessary, unwanted amd the longer it goes the more the in-fighting within Labour continue)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-david-davis-great-repeal-bill-brexit-article-50-european-union-a7341116.html

That's the porpoises ****ed then

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/29/uk-faces-european-court-for-failing-to-protect-porpoises

Well that makes sense. Once we are out of the EU then we are no longer subject to its laws so ECJ jurisdiction ends.

I'm more worried by the bit at the bottom that says:

At the same time, the new Bill will convert existing EU law into domestic law, while allowing Parliament to amend or repeal any other EU law after scrutiny and debate.

The Bill will also include powers for ministers to make some changes by secondary legislation, which is not voted on by the Commons in the same way a piece of primary legislation would be.

Converting EU laws into domestic laws is fine and sensible. Being able to sneakily edit them in the process, without a vote in the Commons, is less so.

1972 European Communities Act to be repealed on Day 1 of Brexit. Removing authority of ECJ imemdiately A50 is triggered

If this is serious - and not yet more bluster from the Tories - then it's going to get very scary and very legally messy. What happens to Scotland, NI and Wales? It scuppers any chance of a soft exit, no free trade with the EU, no Common Market.

Removing authority of ECJ imemdiately A50 is triggered.

Hang on, surely [i]"on day one of Brexit"[/i] is the day we leave, not the day we trigger Article 50 (which just starts the two year leaving process)?

The article says they [i]"plan to introduce the Bill as early as the spring, with its passage through Parliament set to take place in parallel to withdrawal negotiations in Brussels."[/i]

I note you haven't commented on IDS's "Plan" yet jamba. Thoughts?

Jamba - as I read it that is just a bill that says all current EU law is to be recognised as UK law. Fairly procedural as otherwise there would be large holes in our law.
The ECJ bit is perhaps more interesting as cases that are there now might not be finished prior to the new bill passing (assumption given the current UK parliament) and therefore either the lawyers are about to make a killing of it will be somewhat more nuanced than a newspaper (even a broadsheet) cares to portray.

Edit: GrahamS, secondary legislation - good spot. That feels somewhat undemocratic, ministers appointed not elected (elected as MPs yes but not ministers) making changes to the law, probably in cahoots with some unelected civil servants. If Europeans tried that Brexiteers would be foaming (even more 😉 ) at the mouth.

You're buggered Ben. Even worse your leader is going to compound matters by seeking to join the Euro. Buggered from all sides. Bad luck mate!

You're buggered Ben. Even worse your leader is going to compound matters by seeking to join the Euro. Buggered from all sides. Bad luck mate!

Frankly, at the moment if we had to adopt the Ruble I'd still say it's worth it - a U.K. outside all European legal protection and trade arrangements is going to be a horribly insular, backward, racist place to be.

😀

horribly insular, backward, racist place to

Rest of the World vs European ... yes please All.Day.Long.

Ben we can put your statement above with the rest of the dire predictions which we can corss reference over the years to come.

[quote=jambalaya ]1972 European Communities Act to be repealed on Day 1 of Brexit.

This isn't actually news is it? That's one of the basic procedures necessary for us to leave - along with the incorporation of European law into UK law. If we do indeed leave that is all good and sensible stuff.

Removing authority of ECJ imemdiately A50 is triggered.

That's not exactly what the article says though is it? As Graham points out, we haven't left the EU when article 50 is triggered, and wouldn't actually be in any position to remove the authority of the ECJ at that point, it's simply another thing which happens at the point we do leave. Again very sensible.

The only possible contentious things there are the timing, and the article certainly doesn't suggest at all that these measures would be enacted before we actually leave the EU up to 2 years after triggering article 50. As you were.

[quote=bencooper ]a U.K. outside all European legal protection and trade arrangements is going to be a horribly insular, backward, racist place to be.

I thought you already lived in Glasgow?

Ben we can put your statement above with the rest of the dire predictions which we can corss reference over the years to come.

best write it on a bus and parade it round the country as a central foundation of our campaign then 😉

Tory ministers allowed to change the laws without a vote ?

what could go wrong ?

We would be buggered in the Ryder cup without out our EU teammates

Vamos!!!

Graham no not yet, will do so. Timing A50 trigger vs end you could be right, I read it as immediate. Also any changes to law must be voted on by Parliament.

@igm yes agreed we have all current EU laws as of day 1 which dos make sense I think. The key point for me was always that the UK court should be the final arbiter, the actual EU laws themselves where secondary. Once we are out of the EU we won't have tax judgements passed up to ECJ or deportations stopped (as we can't treat EU citizens differently to out own). Over time we can revise the laws dependent to some degree as to the trade deal we have.

I thought you already lived in Glasgow?

Yes, and much as I make fun of Glasgow, it's a very open, welcoming place for migrants. I know quite a few, from Poland, Germany, France, Iraq and elsewhere, and even after Brexit they still feel very welcome here. We voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, remember.

Jamba - the crossover might be interesting though.

Of course we've always had the right to deport EU nations back to their country of origin for certain things have we not? That's one of them EU laws or rules or somefing

@aracer could be interpreation as I read it as repealed on Day 1 of A50 which would be new. If as you and Graham suggest the repeal is at the end then it would not be news. If it's not news why is itmon front pages of Indy and Telegrapgh and presss briefed (?) ahead of the conference.

I wonder who is on Marr tomorrow.

We will still be subject to EU laws and regulations - all goods and services destined for the EU will have to meet their (yes their) standards

To get headlines, Jamba

[quote=jambalaya ]If it's not news why is itmon front pages of Indy and Telegrapgh and presss briefed (?) ahead of the conference.

Because one of the toxic triumvirate is shouting his mouth off without mummy's permission again? We can't possibly do all that immediately on triggering A50 - well I suppose we could, but to do so would be to unilaterally end the 2 year negotiating period and immediately leave the EU (I suppose that's actually what those buffoons want, but I don't think the boss does).

@ben - you know I'm taking the p right? Of course we all know the problem you have is sectarianism not racism!

@ben - you know I'm taking the p right? Of course we all know the problem you have is sectarianism not racism!

"Aye, but are you a Catholic Muslim or a Proddy Muslim?" 😉