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not divided eh ?
I said this on the Corbyn thread, but I think the tories are about to give labour a lesson in how to do party in-fighting properly. For all it's venom, the labour troubles are mostly about the fact that the blairites completely f***** up and couldn't accept it. They appear to be doing so now though. The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy. The tories however are split ideologically down the middle. Only power holds them together, and given May's less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.
aracer - Member
chewkw » If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Do you really think it will? Or when it all turns to bollocks will they just find something else to blame?
That depends on your British culture.
What is the norm of blaming?
In the Far East - corrupted politicians.
dazh - Member
not divided eh ?
The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy. The tories however are split ideologically down the middle. Only power holds them together, and given May's less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.
Any politician or party that does not embrace Brexit will slowly disappear from politics in the next 20 years.
ThanksEngaging further in a discussion where some posters are simply intent on making personal attacks ? Well I've got better things to do than respond.
If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Because, they, obviously, are not the only one effected.
they have Fox, BJ and whoever the other bloke is on one side of the divide
Does anyone really think Fox (and DD) really want the same thing as BJ?
Well BJ simply wants power, and has accidentally found himself over there, but with about the most power he's likely ever to get now - what do the other two want?
Agree with DazH the brexit negotiations ais going to be like one slow car crash - tbh it would be whoever was in power as its just going to be ames
So far the three main players acannot agree with each other never mind the non brexiters in their party - ie th emajority.
“Liam Fox’s speech this week was very worrying. In fact, it was delusional,” she told the Guardian. “How can we have ‘freer’ free trade? Let’s get real, for God’s sake. It’s really worrying that these are the senior people who have the future of our country in their hands. May is the voice of sanity, and without her I don’t know where the three Brexiteers would take us.”
kelvin - Member
If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Because, they, obviously, are not the only one effected.
We are all affected regardless so I don't see why we cannot work together to make everyone happy again.
I said this on the Corbyn thread, but I think the tories are about to give labour a lesson in how to do party in-fighting properly.
No-score draw more likely
For all it's venom, the labour troubles are mostly about the fact that the blairites completely f***** up and couldn't accept it.
Come on dazh, be serious
The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy.
As abpve - have you been on holiday recently or were you fooled by Smith's attempt to be Militant-lite
May's less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.
Ok, you finished strongly, phew.
I used to agree as I am not a May fan. But she has surprised me on the upside so far. Still v early days. Dare I say it but good FT article on her situation today.
what do the other two want?
You really need to ask?
R W O E P - re-arrange
I like May.
She has a good no nonsense approach of not giving needy running commentaries.
May will win 2 general elections easily if she is strong enough to command.
Basil Brush could win two general elections against Corbyn.
BOOM BOOM
5thElefant - Member
Basil Brush could win two general elections against Corbyn.
I respect JC for standing firm without giving in to the champagne socialists. Who is that bloke that was seen at the field partying? I mean WTF ...
Historically we have always been a free trading nation, that is unlikely to change, recognising as we do that lots of previous world altercations have their roots in trade protectionism. So yes Fox saying it'll be free-er trading has roots in truth, anyone who has tried to vye with the European 'Chambers of Commerce' system will know that protectionism is alive and well in the single market to this very day and that the single market as a free trade area is largely an illusion.
So what can we expect I hear you cry, well you can expect to remain as you always have been, a market, to be sold to, abused by global capitalism, mis informed by corporate controlled media and fed the illusion of democracy, exiting the EU isn't going to change that. It will however be a minor speed bump in Corporate Americas domination of the region they call Europe, TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward, for whatever that's worth.
It's not going to save the planet that's for sure, but it's not going to be the disaster that the remainers have attempted to scare us into thinking. there's an old saying in business, 'one door closes, another door opens' and that's the way to view this.
As a trading nation, the sensible play is to make it easier and cheaper to trade with your partners, not the other way round. We largely had that in place and yet decide to throw it all away. Cretinous.
which of the dear departed is rosccore?
Great to see chewkw back. Just the straight-talking common-sense fact-based outlook this thread has been missing 😆
Large corporation good or bad?
...
Now is the time to see some of them vanish forever.
Are you suggesting that people voted for Brexit because they [b]wanted[/b] to drive all the large corporations away from the UK??
Well that's a new one!
It is kind of amusing to see people moaning about Nissan's move being political.
Nissan publicly came out for Remain before the referendum. They warned about the potential impact on the Sunderland plant. They even sued Vote Leave for using their logo and misquoting them.
3 months ago on this same thread:
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/215#post-7795219 ]igm[/url]
Renault-Nissan plant at Sunderland is competing for a new model, will they be on a level playing field with a French plant?[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/215#post-7795331 ]mdavids[/url]
The next new model is the new Juke, but only if they can hit the cost targets that were promised. They only just won it and that extra potential £??? that has just been added by voting to leave might well tip the scales in favour of the Renault plant they were competing with.
As for Jaguar, my brother-in-law and his mates have worked for them for 20 odd years and done extremely well out of it (judging by his massive house in Warwick).
Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK - no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.
TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward
What...?
Our government were the biggest supporters of TTIP. They were gagging to sign us up to it straight away and it was other countries in the EU that refused to sign and insisted on "checks and balances".
[i]"We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] – the EU-US Free Trade agreement.
This would be the world's biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output."[/i]
-- [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/extracts-from-the-chancellors-speech-on-europe ]George Osborne, 15th Jan 2014[/url]
What...?Our government were the biggest supporters of TTIP. They were gagging to sign us up to it straight away and it was other countries in the EU that refused to sign and insisted on "checks and balances".
"We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] – the EU-US Free Trade agreement.
This would be the world's biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output."
-- George Osborne, 15th Jan 2014
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don't think you'll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all. The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn't the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.
Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK - no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.
Politics of envy isn't it?
I guess its easier to hope others will be brought down to your level then to try and raise yourself up.
Perhaps he should put his money where his mouth is and get rid of all the goods in his home developed by those evil corporations, maybe do us all a favour and start with whichever device he's accessing the internet from.
Mr Ghosns' statement the other day is nothing new, he's just re-iterating the company line which was made clear before the referendum.
They're a business, they aren't trying to play politics. If it becomes cheaper to build elsewhere because of trade tariffs they'll go. Unless May puts her hand in her pocket and makes up the shortfall.
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don't think you'll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all.
Riiiight.. it was that bad old government, the Tories, that wanted us to sign up. This new Tory government are completely different. 🙄
Assuming that were true, do you think we are now in a [i]stronger[/i] negotiating position to dictate terms when the USA decide to approach us with a new TTIP deal?
We are absolutely desperate for trade deals, we are less than a tenth the size of the EU, and the pound is at an historic low against the dollar.
Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we'll have to send the work experiences kids.
Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we'll have to send the work experiences kids.
We'll just get some immigrants in to do it for us.
GrahamS - Member
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don't think you'll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all.
Riiiight.. it was that bad old government, the Tories, that wanted us to sign up. This new Tory government are completely different.Assuming that were true, do you think we are now in a stronger negotiating position to dictate terms when the USA decide to approach us with a new TTIP deal?
We are absolutely desperate for trade deals, we are less than a tenth the size of the EU, and the pound is at an historic low against the dollar.
Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we'll have to send the work experiences kids.
Before we start, answer me this, are you arguing in favour of TTIP?
No, based on the very little we actually know about TTIP, I'm against it.
But whether you are for or against it, we are undeniably in a much poorer negotiating position for "TTIP Mk2" or whatever post-Brexit Trade Deal the US decides to offer us (if they do at all - Trade Deals are a hot potato there at the moment).
"TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward, for whatever that's worth."
We'd have been signed up to that, had it not been for the rest of Europe.
Also: you're 'Just5minutes'.
I've just realised.
GrahamS - Member
Are you suggesting that people voted for Brexit because they wanted to drive all the large corporations away from the UK??
EU yes. Large corporations? That depends on which one of them are winding people up.
Nissan publicly came out for Remain before the referendum. They warned about the potential impact on the Sunderland plant. They even sued Vote Leave for using their logo and misquoting them.
I bet they want subsidies of some sort but just saying it differently or they wanted to be treated specially with some sort of lower tax etc whatever ...
Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK - no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.
They ain't going anyway because I bet they are trying it on ....
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them. Imagine if Range Rover is driven by some blokes from say Asia or some other countries ... nobody will buy them.
They want to sell Range Rover they need the British people to sell that image and same goes to Jaguar. Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.
I double dare them Nissan, Ranger Rover & Jaguar to go away from the UK.
p/s:
Great to see chewkw back. Just the straight-talking common-sense fact-based outlook this thread has been missing
I was away learning other cultures ... 😀
Sorry, cross-post with GrahamS.
chewkw
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them.
...they sell 8 out of 10 RR's abroad, chewkw.....so: bollocks.
codybrennan - Member
chewkw
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them.
...they sell 8 out of 10 RR's abroad, chewkw.....so: bollocks.
Yes, because the well off people bought them for status symbol to be associated with certain class. Especially the very well off British class. Same goes to Mercedes in Asia.
You try associate Range Rover with people from say my hometown of Borneo then see if the well off buy or even sit in one of them.
In the Far East we drive Toyota Landcrusier or other Japanese brands 4x4, only those that want to show off drive Range Rover. You go see.
Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.
Ummm... Jaguar Land Rover is owned by [url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Motors ]Tata Motors[/url] - an Indian company headquartered in Mumbai.
GrahamS - Member
No, based on the very little we actually know about TTIP, I'm against it.But whether you are for or against it, we are undeniably in a much poorer negotiating position for "TTIP Mk2" or whatever post-Brexit Trade Deal the US decides to offer us (if they do at all - Trade Deals are a hot potato there at the moment).
Good, I'm glad that's out of the way and we agree it would have been not a good thing.
So back to your other fears, I wouldn't worry too much, the self proclaimed masters of the universe operate in New York & London via Cable there is no way they are going to let anything get in the way of North Atlantic trade between us, not much will change in that regard.
GrahamS - Member
Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.
Ummm... Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors - an Indian company.
Exactly. Everyone knows that Tata motors (make buses etc in Asia) own Jaguar Land Rover, which is why this brand needs to be associated with Britain and if it is manufactured in the UK the better.
Why not move Range Rover plant to India since they have cheap labour? Then advertised Range Rover in India ...
Then see how many celebrities will buy them.
I triple dare them.
The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn't the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.
nah, she picked johnson, davies and fox to sort out brexit, theres no way shed have picked those clowns if she wanted it to succeed !
or they could build the car somewhere else and use marketing to portray a british image .
codybrennan - MemberAlso: you're 'Just5minutes'.
I've just realised.
Not quite sure what you mean by me being "just5minutes' if your suggesting I've posted here before using that identity you are mistaken.
As for TTIP we couldn't sign for anything positive or negative before, precisely why it's good we will be able to make our own decisions for what's in our best interest if and when we finally leave.
kimbers - Member
The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn't the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.
nah, she picked johnson, davies and fox to sort out brexit, theres no way shed have picked those clowns if she wanted it to succeed !
Hmm on the face of it Johnson may appear a clown, but in reality is a very well educated and quite bright individual, Davies is also no fool, no idea about Fox, but I think May has been very shrewd lumping all three of them together in the mire, and at the end of the day she will sort out what needs to be done, I do have confidence in her as the best of a very bad bunch, I can't think of any of the other idiots in Westminster I'd rather be at the helm right now and I'm not a Tory voter.
cchris2lou - Member
or they could build the car somewhere else and use marketing to portray a british image .
Will the British pay premium price to be fooled?
If the British don't drive them then nobody will be fooled into buying them. Everyone will switch to luxury premium V8 Toyota Landcruisers.
Remember Lotus? The last time I heard Lotus was own by some blokes from my home country ... see where they are now ...
Johnson may appear a clown, but in reality is a very well educated and quite bright individual,
which is why he managed to miscalculatetvhe brexit vote quite spectacularly and his recent trip to turkey resulted him saying we'd be in a jumbo free trade are and wed help turkey accession to the EU
no idea about Fox,
check his speach about yesterday, the bit about EU = North Korea was comedy gold
Davies is also no fool,
his wafflefest when addressing parliament at the start of the month was epic and his assertions that we could stay in the free trade area and not face any trade offs over immigration were pure fantasy
Will the British pay premium price to be fooled?
yeah theres no way the british would be foolish enough to pay through the nose for anything made in asia just coz of brand image 😯
[img] 
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kimbers - Member
... his recent trip to turkey resulted him saying we'd be in a jumbo free trade are and wed help turkey accession to the EU
He was in Turkey so do you think he should ask Turkey to stop bombing the Kurdish YPG?
Of course he was there to sweet talk the "dictator".
Yes, help Turkey to access EU so let's see which EU nation curled up first ... 
kimbers - Member
Will the British pay premium price to be fooled?
yeah theres no way the british would be foolish enough to pay through the nose for anything made in asia just coz of brand image
Made in Asia with HQ etc in Merica.
You want Ranger Rover to be made in India with HQ in say Belgium (some EU country) coz it's nearer to EU HQ ... I quadruple dare them.
People buy iPhone like they change their pants so can do that with Range Rover ... Several hundred £ compare to how much? £30K? Good luck.
[quote=rosscore ]I'm not a Tory voter.
UKIP?
Hmm on the face of it Johnson may appear a clown, but in reality is a very well educated and quite bright individual
puts me in mind of Ian Hislops opinion of Boris
people always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'
but for me it also impacts his comments on other threads, so for example when he gives advice about Mac stuff, or Paris itineraries, I assume that that is a load of blx as well. Sad, really.
DrJ I would agree and say it is sad for you you would allow differences of opinion over politics to impact your judgement on other areas whether that be tourism, IT, personal matters or route suggestions in the Alps. Perhaps if you took at face value some of the advice & comments on other matters you'd see the benefit of doing so.
I'll remind STWers of Greybeard and Munrobiker's posts on the Corbyn thread, there is a good reason most STWers stay away from political threads and that's because of the abuse, they showcase STW in the very worst light.
Most forums I frequent have a seperate Political area with different posting rules.
Made in Asia with HQ etc in Merica.
Wait do is it where the HQ is that matters (like Apple) or where they are made (like Jaguar)? Or just whatever fits your theory?
How about Samsung? South Korean company, HQ in Seoul, phones made in China, as desirable as Apple to many people.
I disagree with you on this post but would happily share a pint ( or demi ) and/or bike ride with you .
its not a difference of opinion its the way you ignire factsyou would allow differences of opinion over politics to impact your judgement on other areas
How many folk need to say this to you?
We can all have opinions you state things that are just nit true
Did HIllary have a stroke?
With respect this is not an opinion its just factually wrong hence the poster calls into doubt your "opinion" on other matters- why did you need that explaining for example when it has already been stated?
Clearly the threads bring out the worst in some posters myself included on that judgement
GrahamS - Member
Made in Asia with HQ etc in Merica.
Wait do is it where the HQ is that matters (like Apple) or where they are made (like Jaguar)? Or just whatever fits your theory?
Apple is still seen as Merican in Asia so people do not really care if they are made sweatshop style coz people want their "fix" ... it's disposable item. Yes, disposable and consider a "fast moving consuming good".
You want to compare that with Jaguar Range Rover? I dare their marketing team to portray the brand as Non-British. I dare them.
How about Samsung? South Korean company, HQ in Seoul, phones made in China, as desirable as Apple to many people.
Samsung is having a bit of image problem in China as their marketing/branding/image strategy pisses off Chinese market so they change their strategy there. They are not seen as premium brand but rather an average brand while Apple is still seen as premium Merican brand that is hip or hipster related.
Most brands will try to portray or hide their country of origin to boost their sells but some do better than others. i.e. Apple.
Most brands will try to portray or hide their country of origin to boost their sells but some do better than others. i.e. Apple.
It'd be interesting to know how many "Apple" phones are genuine "Apple" fones in China.
Do people use their finger to do "this" in real life? 🙄
captainsasquatch - Member
It'd be interesting to know how many "Apple" phones are genuine "Apple" fones in China.
Do people use their finger to do "this" in real life?
You can buy practically everything in China real or fake according to your budget.
I mean why do some manufacturers have to imitate the genuine item? Yes, they want to free ride on the brand image to sell quick. I mean they could imitate other Chinese brands too but is there any point?
For what it's worth given the nattering about them, Jaguar / Land Rover areadymanufacture in Asia and Europe. So they could easily move manufacturing aboard if that is what tariffs made sensible.
From their own website.
With Jaguar Land Rover experiencing global sales growth, it is increasingly important to expand our global presence. Manufacturing our vehicles internationally allows the Company to reach markets and customers, creating a stronger, more sustainable and increasingly agile business.Jaguar Land Rover will continue to evaluate opportunities to increase its manufacturing footprint in the future, primarily in markets with strong growth potential and customer demand.
The company has made significant progress in building our international manufacturing footprint. In 2014 Jaguar Land Rover opened its joint venture in China and commenced construction of the local manufacturing plant in Brazil.
The 50:50 partnership between Jaguar Land Rover & Chery Automobile Company Ltd. is the first British-Chinese automotive joint venture. Located in Changshu (north of Shanghai), the 98 acre facility represents a total investment of 10.9 billion RMB (circa £1 billion). The Range Rover Evoque & Land Rover Discovery Sport are both produced in Changshu for customers in China.
Jaguar Land Rover is the first British carmaker to build a new local manufacturing facility in Brazil and is the company's first wholly-owned overseas local manufacturing facility. The 14 acre site in the state of Rio de Janeiro represents an investment of R$750m (£240m), with the first vehicles expected off the production line in 2016.
Jaguar Land Rover has had a local assembly presence in India since 2011 and currently assembles the Range Rover Evoque, Jaguar XF and XJ and most recently the Discovery Sport.
In August 2015, Jaguar Land Rover signed a Letter of Intent with the Government of the Slovak Republic for the potential development of a new manufacturing plant in the city of Nitra in western Slovakia. The feasibility study will explore plans for a factory with an installed capacity reaching up to 300,000 vehicles over the next decade. Earlier in the year, Jaguar Land Rover agreed a manufacturing partnership with Magna Steyr, an operating unit of Magna International Inc, to build some future vehicles in Graz, Austria.
By the way Jamba, if you're ever in York, give me a shout for a pint and an argument.
You will be wrong of course 😉 , but I'm sure it will be an enjoyable evening.
igm - Member
For what it's worth given the nattering about them, Jaguar / Land Rover areadymanufacture in Asia and Europe. So they could easily move manufacturing aboard if that is what tariffs made sensible.
From their own website.
Yes, but many in Asia still see them as British so the test will be if they move out of Britain completely like MG Rover.
Chewkw - they can just move the production (and bulk of the jobs out) while keeping the R&D in Britain. Preserves the brand like you say, good for middle class R&D jobs - not so good for working class assembly line jobs.
Actually so far, the Brexit vote has probably benefited the middle classes over all with lower mortgage costs, but we're yet to see much else until the shape of any A50 trigger or final settlement starts to crystallise.
Remember Lotus? The last time I heard Lotus was own by some blokes from my home country ... see where they are now ...
Where indeed...
Lotus said it enjoyed a sales rise of 186pc in China to 80 cars over the year, while France grew by 177pc to 158 and Germany reported sales of 175 cars, an increase of 130pc.[img]
[/img]
Japan is now the company's biggest single market with motorists buying 365 of Lotus’s Elise, Evora and Exige sports cars, ahead of the 346 cars purchased by British buyers.
Over the year, Lotus expanded its dealer network with the addition of 36 new outlets worldwide, taking the global total to 174.
igm - Member
Chewkw - they can just move the production (and bulk of the jobs out) while keeping the R&D in Britain. Preserves the brand like you say, good for middle class R&D jobs - not so good for working class assembly line jobs.
Yes, that is what most manufacturers do nowadays to have the R&D in the country of origin but manufacture elsewhere in order to main the "made/design in the UK" brand.
In China the consumers are always tricked into buying "foreign" goods paying premium price only to find everything locally made etc.
Actually so far, the Brexit vote has probably benefited the middle classes over all with lower mortgage costs, but we're yet to see much else until the shape of any A50 trigger or final settlement starts to crystallise.
There will be a period of adjustment which is normal so let's wait and see or doing something about own life (referring to myself btw) rather then being tied to some low year job ...
GrahamS - Member
Remember Lotus? The last time I heard Lotus was own by some blokes from my home country ... see where they are now ...
Where indeed...
Is that all have sold? Crikey ...
Actually, our local national car (Proton) is "using" Lotus technology (think they are the one that bought the brand - can't be arsed to google) and me mate the boy racer bought one (4 doors saloon) for his wife because it is cheap. The car sounds like rocket ... 😆
Is that all have sold? Crikey ...
You are (deliberately) missing the point. As you so often do when it doesn't agree with you.
Far from ruining the company your local Malaysian boys seem, so far, to have completely turned it around and hugely improved sales in Europe [i]and[/i] Asia.
Bear in mind that, [url= https://www.ft.com/content/467022de-d875-11e4-ba53-00144feab7de ]according to the FT[/url], Lotus has never managed to break even in its 67 year history!
Slight hijack ... back to main point ... forget about cars.
GrahamS - Member
You are (deliberately) missing the point. As you so often do when it doesn't agree with you.
Lotus managed to get a good deal there by selling to our national car manufacturer.
I bet it is heavily subsidies, how? I ain't saying more.
It is now our "national" car. 😛
Me mate's wife drives a Proton Prevé which we refer to as Malaysian "Lotus"
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_Prev%C3%A9 ]This one - Preve[/url]
While I used to drive (could only afford) [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perodua_Kancil ]this one with 659CC. [/url]
you would allow differences of opinion over politics to impact your judgement on other areas whether that be tourism, IT, personal matters or route suggestions in the Alps.
As has been said before - it's not about your opinions, it's about the pointlessness of discussing with someone who just makes stuff up. Nobody expects a fully peer-reviewed article, but some basic adherence to honesty is essential.
Perhaps if you took at face value some of the advice & comments on other matters you'd see the benefit of doing so.
Perhaps, but in a world where the problem is to filter out what's good and what's bad from a flood of information it makes sense to eliminate known fibbers in the first cut. Maybe I deprive myself of a good tip about the backstreets of Paris, but the chances seem negligible to me.
I think there's a >3000 year old kids story that might help explain the effect of all the Brexit BS
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Stw wised up quickly, I'm not sure that the it won't take a fair bit longer for the 52% to figure it out, I imagine Sunderland might get it soon
As has been said before - it's not about your opinions, it's about the pointlessness of discussing with someone who just makes stuff up. Nobody expects a fully peer-reviewed article, but some basic adherence to honesty is essential.
Yes Drp.
I must admit I sighed inwardly when I read Jamba's response - clearly the man has no shame & will go to any length to deny the fallacies he trots out. To the extent that he will say it's someone else's fault for becoming annoyed by them, rather than take stock like a normal person & adjust their behaviour accordingly.
Yet, one gets taken to task for pointing out said fallacies & being annoyed by them.
How fing tragic.
Anna Soubry doesn't think much of her colleague's rambling speech either
Liam Fox’s speech this week was very worrying; in fact, it was delusional,” she told the Guardian. “How can we have ‘freer’ free trade? Let’s get real, for God’s sake. It’s really worrying that these are the senior people who have the future of our country in their hands.
Hearing this talk about Malaysia, perhaps they have a model for a state development fund that Jez and John could copy over here?
You may argue and debate with anyone but when the argument becomes heated or [b]abuse begins to creep in,[/b] then you will have crossed the line.
Unless its targetted at "you-know-who". Even one mod (in his non-mod capacity naturally) joins in with references that would earn a holiday if applied to others. Perhaps #jambaisfairgameforall should be the new tagline?
I think there's a >3000 year old kids story that might help explain the effect of all the Brexit BSStw wised up quickly, I'm not sure that the it won't take a fair bit longer for the 52% to figure it out, I imagine Sunderland might get it soon
So, in the moral of that story, who is more at fault, the remainers who spent ages telling silly lies (£4300 per household, WW3, end of western civilisation) or the villagers for stopping believing them?
abuse begins to creep in
Where is abuse creeping in? People are saying "jamba makes stuff up and it's not worth talking to him", not "jamba is ugly and his mother dresses him funny".
Perhaps #jambaisfairgameforall should be the new tagline?
#jambaisfairgamefortheusualbullies is closer to the mark.
@ Ninfan, the two sides were as bad as each other.
Where is abuse creeping in? People are saying "jamba makes stuff up and it's not worth talking to him", not "jamba is ugly and his mother dresses him funny".
This.
If you can't pull someone up when they are factually incorrect then the standard of debate is headed for the toilet IMHO & the thread should be closed.
Failing that rules put in place where differences of opinion are acceptable & welcomed, but downright falsehoods should be booted in to touch at the first chance!
It's a shame as his misgivings re Deutsche Bank do seem to have some merit, sadly it's becoming very hard to discern the truth from the lies & like DrP I tend to switch off from a thread once I've seen a post from him on it.
the remainers who spent ages telling silly lies (£4300 per household, WW3, end of western civilisation)
That really really wasn't what was said, but whatever. Leavers gonna bullshit.
That really really wasn't what was said, but whatever. Leavers gonna bullshit
And no one actually said they were [i]going to[/i] spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit
As cchris2lou says, both sides were as bad as each other, but it's only one side that's spent months whinging on like a scolded cat about how the other sides "lies" were some sort of massive and pivotal betrayal that swung the proletariat to vote out while excusing their own.
ninfan - MemberAnd no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit
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OK, so not exactly doing the boy scout salute, but it looks like a pretty strong commitment to me.
What message did Bojo and Fox want people to take away from that if not that the NHS would get £350M/week?
They wrote it on a bus, toured the country and when they realised they made a big mistake they quit!
Sadly for some people who believed it, they just cannot quit and live of the family Trust Fund .
[quote=ninfan ]And no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit
er, the slogan was "We send the EU £350 million a week let's fund our NHS instead" - it might not [b]quite[/b] say it directly, but it's as close as makes no difference in terms of the implication. If you're going to throw around accusations of bullshit, don't bullshit in order to do so.
As cchris2lou says, both sides were as bad as each other,
No, you had Boris. Who used Turkey entering the EU as a scare tactic, and is now saying how great it would be to have Turkey in the EU.
The big difference is that the consequences of those lies are going to be very different.
If you can't pull someone up when they are factually incorrect
No one is saying that, but
And no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever.
Gove WAS saying this - check out between 09:50 and 10:30 and 12:30 below- he openly lies about this figure and states that it could be spent on the NHS
The early stuff is the lie about £350m actually leaving the country, at 12:30 he says [b]"if we took that money back we could spend it on the NHS."[/b]
Anyone can look and listen - its there in full colour too. Gove lied openly and without shame. That interview is probably the most gut-wrenching example of lying ["south" of the yS] that has been seen on TV
Well know remainer Farage disagrees with youno one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit
FFS we all knwo they did this so why lie about it ?
Nigel Farage has disowned a pledge to spend £350 million of European Union cash on the NHS after Brexit.The Ukip leader was asked on ITV’s Good Morning Britain programme whether he would guarantee that the money pledged for the health service during the campaign would now be spent on it.
Speaking on the morning of the referendum result he however said he had never made any such pledge.
“No I can’t [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made,” he said.
What are you saying then?No one is saying that, but
We have established no one is just calling him names they are saying he lies/struggles with facts - though you term it baloney. Seems to me you are, nobly/honourably, defending a mate and for no other reason than he is a mate. Were i to be on the end of the "abuse"* he gets you would be inserting smileys galore and encouraging folk to carry on, we both know this is true.
Its shame it has come to this with Jamby but clearly he is beyond the realms of facts , reason and sense and folk will continue to point this out to him.
FFS the strongest defence - in fact only you have tried - admitted he talked baloney that is all we are saying as well. You agree with us
I am saying no more as it is getting close to bullying now IMHO
* I assume you are still ignoring me because I troll whilst giving us all advice on how to treat folk with respect 😉
Brexiters - even prepared to bullshit about what bullshit they previously made
Remainers were mostly warning of what might happen, in the long run. It still might - leavers haven't won any arguments yet.
it [u]looks like[/u] a pretty strong commitment to me
They wrote it on a bus
it might [u]not quite say it directly[/u], but it's as close as makes no difference
[u]if[/u] we took that money back we could spend it on the NHS."
Rarely have so many voices agreed with me in unison, that [u]no one actually said[/u] they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS