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Less our rebate etc, (but if it's good enough to write on a bus......)
Kimbers I always use the figure less our rebate
Nissan may put investment on hold, I would be curious if they where actually plannig to make any. Putting investment on hold isn't closing the factory is it ? Toyota said before the Referendum whatever the result they would stay pit.
UK govt can sign a trade deal making car's tariff free into UK from Japan on the basis Nissan etc keep factories in the UK ? I strongly suspect EU will agree tariff free cars anyway beyween UK and EU to go with financial services and food. We will of course not be bound by EU rukes somare free to import from wherever we want tariff free subject to agreements or at WTO rates as agreed.
@mike I bet also despite havng no long term right of residence in Australia you own a house ? You are making an educated risk assesment.
Guess what like every other thing you try and claim in this thread you are wrong.
And as you seem to be trying really hard to miss the point eu nationals and UK nationals made a decision based on facts and rules that are now all up for change. Playing fast and loose with negotiations is playing with people's lives.
[i]Britain does not have its own schedules. We have EU schedules. Fox can say we have our own if he likes, but officials and lawyers at the WTO will disagree. We need to extract our schedules from the EU schedule, which is actually a horrifically difficult problem.WTO
...
It’s not hard with tariffs, we can just replicate what the EU does there. But the tariff rate quotas are a nightmare, because they’re quantitative.
...
The WTO is minefield for British trade interests which will need a very experienced, very intelligent, very sensitive negotiating team to navigate. Fox’s speech does not suggest these things will be forthcoming.
...
But note what that means: Nothing changes. All that talk of taking back control during the referendum was illusionary. We will keep things exactly as they are, because that’s the only way to make the journey from the single market to WTO rules even vaguely doable. We're not taking back control. We are desperately trying to make a massive and perilous change in our economic arrangements without triggering huge job losses. And that means that we will copy whatever our EU arrangements were and paste them onto the WTO schedules.[/i]
[url= http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/09/27/fox-slip-up-at-wto-shows-he-has-no-brexit-plan ]Foxy Bingo[/url]
It's not just about picking an arbitrary tariff and adding that to an invoice.
Nissan may put investment on hold, I would be curious if they where actually plannig to make any. Putting investment on hold isn't closing the factory is it ? Toyota said before the Referendum whatever the result they would stay pit.
It's the first step in shutting the place if you've any experience of manufacturing. Investment doesn't mean buying new shining stuff or building new units, facilities need large annual investment to do all the renewals and general upkeep. Essentially it can signal a 'run it into the ground" philosophy as the owner tries to extract as much value for a few years before shutting.
And Toyota are saying the same.
[i]All that talk of taking back control during the referendum was illusionary.[/i]
It was a quite amazing phrase, who came up with it because I reckon in future years it'll be taught. As in, a 1st class marketing exercise in how to persuade a load of folk who haven't a Scooby what the implications are to vote for something that will (on the whole) screw most of them who voted for it*.
* - based on the only folk I know that voted Leave are lower-working class in both background and thought, are they're the ones who'll be certainly screwed over. In fact, Jamba, are you David Davies? 😉
Do we know who it was?
You can understand why Nissan are nervous, conflicting signals from Davies, Fox, Johnson* and May about whether we will stay in the free market have undoubtedly got a lot of manufacturers very concerned.
On the plus side I'm sure Dyson will be moving their factories back here 🙂
Borris was hilarious as usual on his recent trip to Turkey
Apparently we'll be part of a “jumbo free trade area” which is funny, coz we all ready are, of course Turkey are bound by EU customs regs so can't negotiate with us sperately.
Then he promised to help with Turkeys accesion as a full member..... which we'll have no say over as we'll be out 🙄
Kimbers I always use the figure less our rebate
Well that's an outright lie right there!
You know Jambas I'd have more respect for you if you did stop lying so.....you seem quite a bright & erudite chap but, bloody hell you're far too economical with the truth for my liking!
Come on Jamba, it's Friday. Give us some more Jambafacts, I need a laugh!
No one could be this hypocritical or untruthful without effort and I have concluded he does all this for shits and giggles
he claims to have a degree and post grad from Oxford so he just cannot be this dense unless its deliberate
Jambalies are deliberate basically -essentially if he is typing he is trolling/lying
#jambatroll?
Having a laugh at the rest of us for 10,000 posts?
He should get an STW readers award if so!
Is he even a person or some sort of brexitbot programmed to counter any pro eu content on the internet whatever time of day?
Could be.
What he's doing is spinning, to justify his pre-established point of view.
Most of us do it to some extent, just not that blatantly.
Mtth 7:3
He may be talking a lot of baloney on the EU/Brexit including the post above but at least he is not simply playing the man. Well done guys, Jambas shins will be multi-coloured this morning. You must be very pleased.
What a mess. And what a time to have lightweights like Fox and Bojo (May?) running the place.
THM is right.
Don't call jamby a liar
Just cut and paste his posts in a kind of contradictory bingo
eg
Kimbers I always use the figure less our rebate
From page 252 of this thread
As for the £350m p/week we'll have to wait till we are out before we are able to decide how we'll spend that. Most of that benefit will be decided by our government in 2020
In addition, when many of his points are 'from what I remember' or 'I read somewhere' but very, very rarely sourced, there is nothing to play but the man. Because it's mostly opinion, put across rather vociferously, hence the 'jambafact'.
Well done guys, Jambas shins will be multi-coloured this morning. You must be very pleased
I'm crying crocodile tears for poor old Jambas..
Fox is excellent - what is he a DR of wishfull thinking?- I like how he wants even freer access when we leave 😆
What he's doing is spinning, to justify his pre-established point of view.Most of us do it to some extent, just not that blatantly.
Yesterday he explained how the weakening pound was great but the weakening euro meant the EU was "shitting" itself. No one is this fluid with their arguments. Kimbers has provided another example of this "fluid" approach. What he said was untrue you can call it a lier him being forgetful but it is not spin it just untrue
Look this is the strongest defence one can make of him and it includes agreeing he talks nonsense
He may be talking a lot of baloney on the EU/Brexit including the post above but at least he is not simply playing the man. Well done guys, Jambas shins will be multi-coloured this morning. You must be very pleased.
No one is pleased with it but it is not actually untrue as even you conclude.We are not playing the man we are simply stating what the man does which is to spout baloney. No other poster gets accused of lying on here with the regularity he does and by so many posters. You can blame those who do it, which now includes you, albeit slightly politer, or him for doing "spouting baloney" as you see fit.
Most folk just think he does what has been proved on this page by Kimbers We could do examples every single day of this eventually, as evidenced on this and other threads, folk just end up tagging things as #jambyfact or jambliar.
WHilst I can see why some see it as playing the man the real problem is that its true that he does this and therefore folk will keep saying it
Am guessing that the £350m will be spent compensating companies for the additional tariff payments that will be imposed on them.
As I mentioned earlier in the week, whoa is me 🙂
[i]The UK's new information commissioner has called for the country to adopt forthcoming EU data protection laws, despite its plan to leave the Union.
"I don't think Brexit should mean Brexit when it comes to standards of data protection," Elizabeth Denham told BBC Radio 4's PM programme.
[/i]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37512419
Jamba - Nissan invest in new model production on about a 5 year basis as I recall. What they are essentially saying is we'll continue making the current models in Sunderland (somebody called them Geordies!!!), but the replacement Quashqai (which will require significant investment) will be made at a European plant (somewhere else in the Renault Nissan Alliance) unless the European sales are cost effective after tariffs and subsidies. Apparently the current Quashqai is 80% exported to Europe. Alternatively I believe they already planned to make some in Sunderland and some in France(?) - they might just shift the proportions.
So the plant won't close immediately - it'll wither on the vine. But the economy may move and something else may happen.
7000 direct jobs and 50,000 indirect apparently.
The WTO has rules on state aid (as does the EU) So it will probably be spent on lawyers arguing over international trade disputes.Am guessing that the £350m will be spent compensating companies for the additional tariff payments that will be imposed on them
igm - Member
So the plant won't close immediately - it'll wither on the vine. But the economy may move and something else may happen.
Nissan is threatening because it's overlord is Renault so I suspect it's probably a political reason rather than market sense. Yes, the Korean brands may enter market ...
UK Growth revised up. Deutsche bank approaching freefall
Not looking good for Europe is it?
ninfan - Member
UK Growth revised up. Deutsche bank approaching freefallNot looking good for Europe is it?
phew im glad we arent in Europe and that Deutschebank dont employ 12000 people in London 😯
I am also pleased that the growth figure form before we had the brexit vote has been revised upwards. If that does not indicate the effects of the brexit vote on the U economy then i dont know what stat will
Don't worry, we have healthy banks like RBS who aren't at all propped up with BoE money.phew im glad we arent in Europe and that Deutschebank dont employ 12000 people in London
Kimbers the two statements are consistent, it's up to the government of the day to decide. Our government. As I have said numerous times I would support retaining the current EU grants, ie 55 pence in the pound we send to the EU. As such the bugest savibg is £10bn (or £8.5bn using @mike's figures - same same if you ask me) Certainly for the time being. Is every £ well targetted, I am certain it's not ? Why shouldn't these payments be subject to review by OUR government
and this is why he gets insulted ;that is self evidently untrue. What does that make him then? Essentially he is either a liar or a moron as that is just not factually correct.Kimbers the two statements are consistent,
When you deal with a person happy to do this its inevitable folk will eventually just give up and call him names.
Its pretty good really, having someone exemplify so well why the pro brexit arguments were based falsehoods
Its a common tactic in politics
say something with conviction, in an authoritative manner and people will believe you and not bother to check your facts
Its something that Borris Johnson does very well
Deutsche bank approaching freefallNot looking good for Europe is it?
yeah cos the effect of Lehmans Brothers going to the wall was only felt in the US.
When you deal with a person happy to do this its inevitable folk will eventually just give up and call him names.
I\m sure Jamba won\t be losing sleep over this, but for me it also impacts his comments on other threads, so for example when he gives advice about Mac stuff, or Paris itineraries, I assume that that is a load of blx as well. Sad, really.
I\m sure Jamba won\t be losing sleep over this, but for me it also impacts his comments on other threads, so for example when he gives advice about Mac stuff, or Paris itineraries, I assume that that is a load of blx as well. Sad, really.
killfile for the win.
CEO of Jaguar, Land Rover also wants UK to stay in single market.
57% of car built in the UK go inside the EU.
Next market is US but with only 12%. ( source Independent, can't do link) .
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/can-we-please-hurry-up-and-commit-economic-suicide-ask-brexit-tories-20160930114622 ]The Mash nails what we can expect next week[/url]
😆
UK Growth revised up. Deutsche bank approaching freefall
Not looking good for Europe is it?
1 a revision of an estimate - so what?
2 pre-dates crisis, recession, Brexit
Not sure what either add to the debate re our relationship with Europe? Can you advise?
Can someone on the brexit side explain why all the crowing over the economic problems in Europe? Our greatest customers and probably greatest source of external investment (I havent looked this up), and we are supposed to be jumping for joy that they might not be doing so well - in fact, jumping for joy at the thought that the brexit vote is actually adding to their problems? I just don't get it. Economics is not a zero-sum game and we haven't been at war with Germany for 70 years.
Indeed, cap'n it's infantile. We should be looking at ways where we both benefit not both lose. It's narrow-minded and ignorant to relish weaker growth/problems in Europe. But this has been a characteristic of BSers approach all along.
Almost every long running thread (not about bikes) seems to be full of endless jambafacts. How does he have time to learn so much AND constantly talk/type this stuff out, not to mention do any work?
That is because Brexiter think that the rest of the world are desperate to do business with the UK.
Sadly China banks are in more trouble than European ones, not all Indian can afford a Bentley and if China can not buy minerals from Australia, they will be in trouble too. And let's not forget a very messy US election coming up.
Honestly is this a nest of whining remainers?
We are going to leave.
There will be a trade deal regarding car import export tariffs, we've already shoved up a huge barrier bigger than the EU import tariff for cars, devaluing the £ 10-15% as we always do when times like this arrive.
The tricky thing going forward is more the 40 years of legislation that will need to be unwound, that's without idiot judges trying to suggest the referendum result cannot be enacted by parliament.
The rest of the World do want to do business with us, that is ALL of the rest of the world including some hard done by third world food growing regions that we can now help out and bring down food costs without them having to negotiate a deal with the EU, there are as many positives as there are negatives to this affair.
I for one would still have a job had we not been a part of the EU, as much as it gave us, it also took away with centralisation in Europe, but not here, so I'm OK with it.
Just pointing that out to the rewhiners, get a grip, nothing you are going to do or say now is going to stop it.
Oh and I quite enjoy 'Jambafacts' thanks just the same.
Are you Dr Fox?
Lots of nice sentences with strong words but nothing concrete.
Oh and I was up that Lunnon yesterday and noted that Apple are going to Headquarter in the old Battersea Power station with a load more jobs on offer for the immigrant community that dominates Lunnon and I dare say Apple will have no trouble moving its staff around Europe and the rest of the World now or post the exit.
Rosscore - I too enjoy jambafacts - it doesn't make them true.
I suspect I'd even enjoy an argument over a pint with Jamba - that doesn't make poking our big single market in the eye a good idea.
And that's before we start talking about the positives the EU has brought like political stability (compared to the preceding 2-300 years) and the ability to ply ones trade in other countries.
with a load more jobs on offer
I thought they were just relocating existing uk based jobs there?
anyway, Ill keep rewhining away, and correcting jambafacts until the whole silly thing is called off
You call it whining, I call it asking for a credible plan. So far it looks like we are heading for an incredibly expensive and time-consuming boondoggle for lawyers and civil servants to work out how to get us a far worse deal than we already have. Meanwhile the three brexiteers who are supposed to be leading the process spout their mutually inconsistent nonsense fantasies only to get slapped down by May every time any of them open their mouths.
no its a fact based discussionHonestly is this a nest of whining remainers?
The convention is that the PM cannot do this *without parliamentary approval as the referendum was not legally binding. No one doubts that parliament is supreme they doubt whether the PM can do it without parliamentary approvalthat's without idiot judges trying to suggest the referendum result cannot be enacted by parliament.
This will play out in the courts
* an act of parliament led to us entering so only an act of parliament not a PM can remove this
aspirational pish High on hope low on actual details or facts no wonder you like jambyfactsThe rest of the World do want to do business with us, that is ALL of the rest of the world including some hard done by third world food growing regions that we can now help out and bring down food costs without them having to negotiate a deal with the EU, there are as many positives as there are negatives to this affair.
.
Honestly is this a nest of whining remainers?
No, I've not seen any whining. What I have seen is a group of people who want to know exactly WTF is going to happen next with evidence and some kind of joined up strategy. Sadly most Brexit leaning folk seem to think that the hard part has been done with the referendum and now everything will be gravy so feel no need to supply sensible ideas or consistent facts.
And, this being a democratic country, any Remainer who feels the need is perfectly justified in continuing to make the case for why they think leave is a bad idea. Farage and his ilk rattled on for years to get their way and even said that if the vote ratio was 52:48 against exit he would consider that to be sufficient ground to keep campaigning. Why, when the other way around, is it unacceptable for Remainers to do the same?
What I have seen is a group of people who want to know exactly WTF is going to happen next with evidence and some kind of joined up strategy.
Why are they asking on a bicycle forum?
They aren't, they are asking on the chat forum. At least, in this thread.
More chance of getting an answer than from our 'government'?Why are they asking on a bicycle forum?
What I have seen is a group of people who want to know exactly WTF is going to happen next with evidence and some kind of joined up strategy.Why are they asking on a bicycle forum?
Jamby seems very proud of his involvement in Brexit so hopefully knows more about the thinking at its heart and the plan to deliver it. He is often on here so many hoped he could explain not just what our glorious future will look like but also some solid ideas on how we will get there.
Safe to say that most of us are still waiting.
As annoyed as I am with the BSers it is a bit unrealistic to expect clarity. We are in uncharted territory with extremely complicated negotiations ahead. The facile comments that this is going to be easy and straightforward are just another example of how shallow the Brexit thinking is and the narrow-minded focus that suggest the we are in the driving seat.
Of course it doesn't help that both the government and the Oppo (to the extent that it exists) are both split assunder and the unofficial Oppo are spouting their usual crap about independence and memberships of the EZ
How can there be clarity in the middle of all this mess?
cchris2lou - MemberCEO of Jaguar, Land Rover also wants UK to stay in single market.
57% of car built in the UK go inside the EU.
Next market is US but with only 12%. ( source Independent, can't do link) .
Large corporation good or bad?
Evade tax like some of the tech giants? (Not them but generally speaking IT companies ... you know who)
Dictate terms like you owe them your living?
Do they look after the society they do business in?
Are we smelling the coffee yet?
Now is the time to see some of them vanish forever.
Some clarity to be found here...
Actually not really but it made me smile 🙂
Honestly is this a nest of whining remainers?
By 'this' do you meant the UK? If so, then yes, millions of us Brits not only think this endeavour to leave the EU is a waste of money, time and energy, and that our country, and our immediate neigbouring countries, and the world as a whole will be worse off after it is done, and that the uncertainty of the whole exit procedure and timescale is a huge pointless risk, but also that those who have fought long and hard to "get what they want" seem to, after all that, really not have any idea how it can be made to work, beyond vague aspirations backed up with empty promises and not even half baked contradictory ideas that don't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.
kelvin - Member
... and our immediate neigbouring countries, and the [b]world as a whole[/b] will be worse off after it is done, ...
Please. Please leave Far East alone as they Do Not need the West to affect them good or bad. They don't need the help from the West or charity. Please leave them alone.
Can't you remember the President of the Philippines Rightly telling off the outgoing US President O last month for trying to talk down Philippines govt ways of handling drugs. Ya, he was taught a verbal presidential lesson.
chewkw : sometimes you should just stfu for your own good.
[url= http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-duterte-hitler-idUSKCN1200B9 ]Duterte likens himself to Hitler[/url]
somafunk - Memberchewkw : sometimes you should just stfu for your own good.
Duterte likens himself to Hitler
In other culture people reference and speak differently.
We understand perfectly well what he is saying.
That is how we speak in that region.
But people in the west interpret that differently, then twisting it and later use it as an excuse to cause troubles.
They really do not need anyone to stir up debris from the pond.
Large corporation employ 1000s of people .
who do you think is going to employ them if they go ?
cchris2lou - Member
Large corporation employ 1000s of people .who do you think is going to employ them if they go ?
If they go that is, if. UK is an attractive market.
Not many jobs last forever nowadays for rank and file.
The only guarantee in any of this is the poor will become worse off the middle will prosper slightly and the rich will get a a lot richer.
This is not an opinion it's free market economics all unregulated right wing capitalist countries have very poor poor people (USA is the perfect example) and watch these Tories deregulate - Liam Fox is pitching like hell on this very approach
😯
oldmanmtb - Member
... it's free market economics all unregulated right wing capitalist countries ...
Nothing to do with the wings of belief but rather the inbuilt human greed.
You are right, they won't go, but will cut down a lot.
85% of Nissan made in Sunderland are for the European market.
Well chewkw the Brexit vote and labours struggles have delivered an opportunity the likes of which no Tory government has ever seen and they know it, they have full control and no one to oppose them- corbyns refusal to address immigration (a load of bollocks anyway) will drive the disgruntled labour Brexiteers into the arms of UKIP and further fracture the opposition. Trouble is most centrist folk like me will vote for no one so it's left to the right/left nutters to scratch over the pile of shite.
It's interesting that Sunderland as a town voted to leave? Yet the implications on very very well paid jobs at the Nissan site are genuine - commitment or ignorance?
What is the size of the Tory majority?
Have they been defeated in the Commons recently?
Ignorance
They have a majority and a reasonably United party
No really.
and a reasonably United
Just not united on the only real important issue
True, true ... no peace of mind for everyone.oldmanmtb - Member
Trouble is most centrist folk like me will vote for no one so it's left to the right/left nutters to scratch over the pile of shite.
It is Not ignorance because they just do not want to be part of EU regardless of the benefits.oldmanmtb - Member
It's interesting that Sunderland as a town voted to leave? Yet the implications on very very well paid jobs at the Nissan site are genuine - commitment or ignorance?
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/european-customers-boycotting-british-cars-eu-brexit-vote-jaguar-land-rover ]Jaguar Land Rover are a bit Nervous about hard brexit too[/url]
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/anna-soubry-brands-liam-foxs-free-trade-speech-delusional ]not divided eh ?[/url]
[quote=chewkw ]It is Not ignorance because they just do not want to be part of EU regardless of the benefits.
Which is ignorance of what is really important in life and how political decisions actually affect them. To be fair that's an ignorance shared by most people. In terms of their actual lives (ie going to work, down the pub in the evening, walking the dog, having kids etc.) it's hard to see how leaving the EU benefits most of them - it's an ideological thing based on a somewhat strange set of ideals.
[quote=Klunk ]not divided eh ?
Well of course it is - they have Fox, BJ and whoever the other bloke is on one side of the divide, most of the rest on the other preparing to cast them adrift. At least that appears to be the only plausible explanation for the way the toxic triumvirate keep getting allowed to spout a load of bollocks before being knocked back and told to shut up.
Shakelton I have written at length about my reasons for Brexit, why I think we are better off and the various options for how the future may look and what my preferences are. To be honest if there is one thing I couod be critised it would be repeatedly reposting the same views on Brexit and the various future outcomes. I can no more guaranty what the future will look like outside the EU as Remainer could predict how it would be inside.
Engaging further in a discussion where some posters are simply intent on making personal attacks ? Well I've got better things to do than respond.
aracer - Member
Which is ignorance of what is really important in life and how political decisions actually affect them
Sometimes in life you just have to risk it all even if it means hardship. If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Not sure about they even care about ideology this or that. I asked my friends they just laughed.it's an ideological thing based on a somewhat strange set of ideals.
[quote=chewkw ]If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Do you really think it will? Or when it all turns to bollocks will they just find something else to blame?
Not sure about they even care about ideology this or that
It doesn't matter what they call it or whether they understand the meaning of the word - if they're making decisions based on something other than facts or real benefits then it's ideology. Racism is fundamentally an ideology.