Racist xenophobia swung the referendum. That is fairly sweeping. Don’t suppose you have any polling results or surveys to back up that claim?
But it's obviously true. Even if the racists made up only 2% of the vote, take them away and Leave lose. But they aren't 2%, they're most likely well over 50% of Leave voters. I bet if you took away the people who voted specifically to keep coloured people out Leave would lose, or the people who voted to stop their grandchildren bring conscripted into a European army.
Absolute ****ing joke.
Only thing is, all those pesky voters voting to leave.
Ignore them. Simple.
It is only a tiny minority of people in key positions that are pro Leave. Unfortunately that includes the leader.
But you are aware that the Labour party and its leader have adopted the six tests that cannot be satisfied? That to me suggests a move to remain whilst appearing to keep everyone happy.
I think the rhetoric about letting Labour negotiate a better deal is to give them the chance to try then prove it's not possible, without being blamed for simply being reactionary against the Tories.
Only thing is, all those pesky voters voting to leave.
Ignore them. Simple.
So it's not just leavers who trot out meaningless soundbites then...
Labour can say that May's deal doesn't pass those tests, vote against her deal, yet allow a no deal Brexit to take place because time is up. Labour MPs, members and voters are being taken for fools.
So it’s not just leavers who trot out meaningless soundbites then…
Oh, don't worry mate, I really do mean it.
If I had my way I would make them walk around in big pointy hats with placards around their necks, but apparently that would be undemocratic too.
So many traditional labour supporters see him as too left-wing
Umm... Do you mean one of those traditions that seems old but in reality only started in 1997?
But they aren’t 2%, they’re most likely well over 50% of Leave voters. I bet if you took away the people who voted specifically to keep coloured people out Leave would lose, or the people who voted to stop their grandchildren bring conscripted into a European army.
I wouldn't back that bet. A lot of people were conned, my old man has changed his mind - of course that's bugger all to do with the fact he doesn't watch RT these days since he realised how biased it was.
Just to re balance myself and remind me what a dilemma we are in I had another look at the wiki page with the breakdown of the referendum result.
Once you take Scotland out of it the voting pattern in England and Wales is pretty clear. If that had been a general election with the votes counted by constituency that would be considered an landslide. When two thirds of labour constituencies voted leave you can see why Labour can't come out as remain regardless of the leanings of the party leader.
The fact that they have voted for the impossible does not really make it any better. I am not aware of any evidence that anyone could have negotiated a better deal than May did. Certainly not Corbyn.
In hindsight we should have had a government of national unity, collectively negotiated the best deal we could and then put that deal or remain back to the electorate with no deal not being an option.
Cameron has an awful to to answer for.
troops on the streets. sounds like project fear to me...
Oh, don’t worry mate, I really do mean it.
Doesn't matter, it's still not possible due to the tactics of the game.
Cameron has an awful to to answer for.
And May.
And Corbyn
Just started stockpiling my hayfever medicine. Brexit will be bad enough without sneezing uncontrollably.
Drac
Subscriber
Absolute **** joke.
I actually think they're going to do it. They're going to crash us out with no deal. Up until now I had some misplaced sense that someone would do the right thing and put an end to it all.
The truth is they are all so belligerent and blinded by party politics, that they'll crash us out just so they don't lose votes to the opposition (or other smaller parties)
We're staring into the abyss now 🙁
What if someone were to table a motion to prohibit no-deal?
around 1/3 of labour mps back leave because they are scared of the racists in their constituencies. If Corbyn comes out as strongly pro remain the party will split or he will be deposed.
This is the root of labours problems over this - outright loons like Hoey and the carven capitulation of many of its MPs to a small number of vocal racists. Blair sewed the seeds of this with his focus groups and following right wing newspaper led public opinion rather than leading. Far too many labour MPs would rather die than have a principle or origionalo thought and far too many labour supporters blindly swallow anti Corbyn propaganda
Once before I challenged you to find one piece from the last ten years showing Corbyn wants a hard brexit - again no one can come up with one.
But you are aware that the Labour party and its leader have adopted the six tests that cannot be satisfied? That to me suggests a move to remain whilst appearing to keep everyone happy.
Yep, it does exactly that. Just now waiting for May to put up a vote for No Deal (after her deal gets rejected) and that will be the end of No Deal. We then revoke A50 as only option and Tories look like they screwed it up all by themselves (which they did). No one can blame Labour or Corbyn for any part of it (well apart from Binners obviously) and we all go home for tea.
A lot of people still don't seem to realise, but Labour's six tests only apply to Tory blue unicorn brexit, they don't apply to Labour red unicorn brexit.
What if someone were to table a motion to prohibit no-deal?
Who though?
Whoever blocks brexit, despite being a hero, is finished and their party is finished. It's political suicide to be the person who makes that happen. Both Corbyn and May know this. Whichever party ultimately led to brexit being scrapped will be consigned to the history books. the only possible hope is cross party consensus between the non nutter tories and rest of the parties
Can someone un-ban TeamHurtmore? I need someone to reassure me about the grown-ups stepping in to sort everything out.
I haven't fact-checked all of this this TJ but it matches with regards to his voting:
https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
It's pretty clear he wants Brexit and a soft Brexit with cake was never possible. Any Brexit will be hard because EU leaders won't agree to a soft one from which the UK can gain unfair advantage.
So once again not a single quote and nothing recent bar a completely false account of what he did in the referendum campaign
He spoke repeatedly in favour of remain to thousands and thousands of people at public rallies. He refused to share a platform with tories in the remain campaign. He did not refuse to campaign for remain - he refused to share a platform with tores and quite rightly given the kicking scottish laboutr got for doing so in the scottish referendum
He has straong reservations about the EU - some with IMO sense,some without. However he voted remain adn he campaigned for remain and spoke to more people at more public meetings than any other politician
He even went on public record about how he changed his views to allow him to campaign for remain.
I've just been on the official @leave.eu twitter feed. What a depressing place, full of lies...
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial
When two thirds of labour constituencies voted leave you can see why Labour can’t come out as remain regardless of the leanings of the party leader.
Ok, now go and find out what percentage of Labour voters voted leave. Then come back and try to convince me this is in any way democratic.
Ok, now go and find out what percentage of Labour voters voted leave. Then come back and try to convince me this is in any way democratic.
Who cares. Democracy is ***. Democracy, or more specifically remaining in power in a democracy is now about appealing to the lowest common denominator *tards.
If anyone was unclear on Scotland's place in the Brexit debate, the Tory MP Sir Nicholas Soames has just told the SNP leader Ian Blackford to "go back to Skye" during the debate in the Commons.
The same Nicholas Soames that barked at a female SNP MP. Why do we have to put up with these bigots?
The same Nicholas Soames that barked at a female SNP MP.
The very same
Why do we have to put up with these bigots?
Democracy innit?
The same Nicholas Soames that barked at a female SNP MP. Why do we have to put up with these bigots?
Yep - he of 'wardrobe with the key still in the lock' fame............
"It's not my GDP".
When two thirds of labour constituencies voted leave you can see why Labour can’t come out as remain regardless of the leanings of the party leader.
In those seats, the UKIP+Tory vote share is often greater than the Labour vote share. Labour is in danger of acting for those people in their seats who don't vote Labour, and screwing over those that do. Now, they might be thinking that those Labour voters will vote Labour again if Brexit screws them… the "no where else to go" strategy. Still stinks.
It's all just about trying to justify one thing… the Leader and a few around him want Brexit, and will not allow it to be stopped. The party as a whole, and those who vote(d) for it overwhelmingly do not want this to happen, but what are they going to do about it? It's convinced me that if he was PM, he wouldn't act in the interests of his grass roots supporters or those that Labour should be standing up for. I voted Labour at the last election. I'll wait for a change in Leader before I do so again. Unless magic happens.
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
Nope that wouldn't stop him get elected would it. Its a product of the state where the art of political response has become yeah but your mother.
Perhaps it's a time for some more censure for mp's. As bad as the adveserial game of Aussie politics got they would still chuck you out for the day for breaking rules. It takes a moment to make change happen but I don't think that is coming any time soon.
has a theory
I've met enough stupid rich highly educated folk to know that theory has more than a few flaws (and is product of very simple snobbery).
There is no data to suggest the population is on a path to stupid.
Anyway, Political decisions aren't just about intelligence, are they?
It's a bit like religion…
[ close the thread there ]
Like I said, his theory not mine.
You could argue though I suppose that if the family background isn’t particularly nurturing or focused towards educational success then the results would be self perpetuating.
@colp education and intelligence is inherited? See a few flaws there.
Think he means the Jeremy Kyle families dont bring thier kids up well, and have more of them.
See also
Prince Charles versus Noel Gallagher.
[ thread not closed yet ? ]
Worried about the less educated not dong what's right by their children? Then don't defund and demoralise the schools and colleges they attend.
[ get this back on topic ]
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
Is he proposing EU-genics?
Is he proposing EU-genics?
Very good indeed:)
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
read "the marching morons" by Cyril M. Kornbluth,
However there is no real evidence for this happening from my understanding. Intelligence is generally a regression to the mean in that children are more likely to be closer to average intelligence than their parent with occasional outliers and also IQ test scores UK average is rising ( from memory)
Think he means the Jeremy Kyle families dont bring thier kids up well, and have more of them.
Lets look at parliament for some examples of well adjusted rich kids
Governement petition to leave with no deal reaches 220000 with 1500 hits an hour
Surely its a bot
Dianne A bot ?
