It kind of identifies the stupidity of those in government;
"... the Norwegian option is not an option. We have been telling you this for one and a half years since the referendum and how this works, so I am surprised that after all these years it is still part of the grown-up debate in the UK. You just expect us to give you an invitation rather than consider whether Norway would want to give you such an invitation. It might be in your interest to use our agreement, but it would not be in our interest.”
Heidi Nordby Lunde, MP in Norway’s governing Conservative party, and leader of Norway’s European movement
Somehow we've ended up with a government of actual morons
https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1070969899693105153?s=19
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1070770233714061312?s=19
https://twitter.com/NinaDSchick/status/1071006782909231105?s=19
https://twitter.com/NickHolmes4/status/1070664073493266433?s=19
Pfft! 2 years to secure trade deals? Bloody remoaner pessimists. With our genius negotiating teams, all free trade deals will be sorted within a year!
https://twitter.com/thomasbrake/status/1071318087348224000
We really are being governed by delusional half-wits who seem to exist in sone kind of parallel universe completely detatched from any semblance of reality. I can't be the only one who's been genuinelly shocked ove the last couple of years at the sheer pig ignorance of our 'political class'
I can’t be the only one who’s been genuinelly shocked ove the last couple of years at the sheer pig ignorance of our ‘political class’
It is because they don't care. They have always been the same it is just that the subject of Brexit has exposed them.
They've learnt that there are quite literally no consequences to any of their lies. They can always blame someone else when it doesn't work out as they pretended it would (just check out the brexiters making their excuses). And their core voters aren't interested in evidence or rationality, they are motivated by hate/fear and group identity politics.
I have just read David Lammy's speech from earlier this week. At least 1 politician seems to be thinking the same as me..................
"Mr Speaker, the European Union was once just a remarkable dream.
A hope that our countries which fought and murdered each other, on an industrial scale twice in one century, could come together. A refusal to return to extreme nationalism. And a determination to prevent more bloody conflicts where tens of millions are killed.
The audacious idea of European Integration was motivated by fear. But it was made possible by shared ideals: democracy, human rights, equality, freedom, and a refusal to submit to the tyranny of fascism, ever again.
After the Second World War, in 1946, Winston Churchill said this:
“If Europe were once united in the sharing of its common inheritance, there would be no limit to” its “happiness,” “prosperity and glory.”
But today some Conservative colleagues talk about “total independence” from Europe as though it is a virtue. Let me remind them, Churchill understood the European dream is to build a whole bigger than the sum of its parts. He understood that it is about pooling sovereignty. Working together. Sharing Control.
Let us now be honest with the country. Total independence is a fantasy.It is the same idea that motivates an angry teenager to run away from their family. Total independence means throwing a tantrum and ending up in the cold. Total independence is selfishness. It is individualism, arrogance, superiority, a refusal to work together, and the break-down of the common good. Total independence will not solve our problems.
Total independence will lead to total isolation.
And let us be honest. Britain did not become Great in total isolation. Britain thrived by becoming the biggest Treaty-Signing power in the world. Britain thrived by signing more than 14,000 treaties in the modern age. We thrived by sharing our sovereignty, not by stockpiling it.
Our NATO membership compels us to deploy soldiers when our fellow members are attacked. The Paris Climate Accord is an agreement that demonstrates how we tackle global threats together, not alone. Even our membership of the WTO commits the UK to supra-national regulation and arbitration of its own.
Mr Speaker, Sovereignty is not an asset to be hoarded. It is a resource which only has value when it is spent.
The hard Brexiteers in this house say they want to Take Back Control. They say that we lost it because of the European Union. But in reality they are still mourning Suez. Britain’s last fling of the Colonial dice. Back then Anthony Eden failed to recognise that Britain was no longer capable of launching a solo imperial adventure. Let us not fall for the same hubris today.
When those on the other side of this debate say they want Empire 2.0. Let us ask, what does that mean? What was imperialism?What was colonialism? Let us not forget this today.
At its worst, the British Empire was exploitation and subjugation. Moral superiority that led to putting humans in shackles. The oppression of black and brown people because this country thought it knew best. Those countries once coloured pink on the globe were not won in negotiations, they were taken by force.
Today we need to build a new image of Britain. One that brings this country together after years of division. We have to use our imagination. Empire 2.0 is not it.
After the global embarrassment of Suez, Britain became the sick man of Europe. The EEC was set up in 1958, but Britain did not join until 1973.
In those years, GDP per head rose 95 per cent in France, Italy and West Germany. Britain only grew at half this rate. Our industry and economy had fallen behind.
Mr Speaker, Europe gave post-imperial Britain a chance to regain some wealth and dignity. In the 40 years since, our economy grew faster than France, Germany and Italy. We restored our position on the global stage. But it was not only our prosperity that increased.
Our allies in the US respected us for our seat at the top table of Europe.And the rest of the world saw us become a confident nation again.
A grown up country, prepared to give and take for the greater good.
The Brexiteer promise to Take Back Control in 2016 was nothing more than a deluded fantasy. A lie that divided friends and families. A lie that pandered to racism and xenophobia. And a lie that caused an extra six hundred and thirty eight Hate Crimes per month.
What does it say about the United Kingdom when the UN sends rapporteurs to warn us of increased racism in our country? What does it say about Britain when our politicians play on the fear of migrants, races and religions, to win votes? What did it say when Nigel Farage stood in front of a Nazi-inspired poster of refugees, with the caption “breaking point”?
The founder of the Labour Party, Keir Hardie, spoke of socialism’s “promise of freedom”. Its “larger hope for humanity”. And of “binding the races of the earth into one all-embracing brotherhood.”
To my good friends in the Party. Those who are still wavering, I ask honestly: can you really vote for this politics of division and hate?
Can you really vote to slash workers’ rights and protections?
Can you vote to give tax avoiders a sanctuary?
Can you vote to hand over more power to the clumsy hand of the market?
Mr Speaker, what I’m about to say is not fashionable. But our country’s story of renewal through Europe is a story of immigration. We grew as a nation because of free movement.
European migrants are not “citizens of nowhere” or “queue jumpers” as the Prime Minister would have us believe. Young, energetic, diverse and willing to pay taxes, EU citizens have given so much. They have done the jobs that our own would not do.
Around 3.8 million now live in Britain. Over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out. But the contribution of European migrants has not only been financial. Our culture, our art, our music, and our food has been permanently improved.
Theresa May’s deal has emerged as a Frankenstein’s monster An ugly beast that no one voted for or wanted.
To appease hardliners, the transition period can at most be extended to 2022. This has eradicated our leverage – it is simply not enough time to negotiate a free trade deal. We are now on course for another cliff edge.
This deal does not Take Back Control, it gives it away. It surrenders our voting rights in the European Council, Commission and Parliament. For nothing in return. I cannot vote for any form of Brexit because every form of Brexit is worse for my constituents.
Mr Speaker, Brexit is a historic mistake.
It forgets the lessons of Britain’s past.
It forgets the value of immigrants.
It forgets that we cannot build a new Empire by force.
It forgets that in the modern world our nation will not flourish through isolation. But connection, cooperation and a new vision for the common good.
Brexit forgets why this continent came together, after two bloody wars.
Mr Speaker, this country is crying out for a second a chance. Seven hundred thousand marched on the streets of London. Millions more campaigned online and wrote to their MPs. They are all asking for one thing: an opportunity to right the wrong of 2016. Another shot at the imperfect but audacious European dream.
Or as Shakespeare put it in Richard the 2nd, from John of Gaunt:
“That England, that was wont to conquer others, hath made a shameful conquest of itself.” "
Yes that was a really good speech. Great, even.
thanks for posting that. great piece.
Top class speech.
Sadly no easy soundbites so the likes of Boris get the headlines.
Who's speech was it?
Speech was by David Lammy - MP for Tottenham
That is an excellent speech.
ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!!!!
Look at him. He's not even British!
Outstanding speech.
Some right head bangers on R4 Any Answers.😀
Very good speech. Shame his audience appeared to be 15 people, most of who were playing Kandy Krush or something.
I would call him a snowflake but he's not white. Who do these immigrant descendants think they are, reminding us what a nation of tyrants we used to be and warning us off that path again. I demand our rights to **** ourselves up and take as many as we can with us.
That really bothers me.
The countries in a mess, so what are all the other politicians doing, one things for sure, they are not in parliament doing thier jobs.
I don't normally like to defend our politicians, however this is 5 days of Brexit debate. I assume the can pop in and out to listen in and record their feelings. There must also be other work that needs doing.
A fair point but still, it's a critical issue, and they get paid very very well.. It is too much to expect them to pull a few 'all nighters' in a time of crisis?
I would stress that having turned up in the HOC to take part on the debate knowing of its importance and the fact that it may be televised, MP's should be seen to be fiddling with phones and other electronic devices.
Maybe they could cite the European working time regulations for a justification for not being there. I've done my 37.5 hours this week, see you next Tuesday.
Lol. Sad face.
A masterclass in whataboutery, will achieve absolutely nothing, just repeats the same stale old arguments which haven't proved persuasive in the past so ain't going to in the future.
It's not really about persuading arguments any more, it's about what's physically possible or not.
A masterclass in whataboutery
Is that in reference to Lammy’s Speech?
yep
If this were a footy match both teams of supporters would be chanting your ****ed and you know you are
even the players would join in
and how that contemptuous pile of shit amber rudd can even open the ****ing hole in her face and talk i have absolutely no doubt a donut could probably.... Awww **** it im ****ed and i know i am
yep
I can't wait until the whole thing is cancelled and the likes of you explode with futile rage
Mefty... Wtf?
We’re just seeing the Christian Quitling Brotherhood losing its shit a little. Quite enjoyable.
It's quite enjoyable watching a lot of people losing their shit, as facts and reality slowly come home to roost.
I can’t wait until the whole thing is cancelled and the likes of you explode with futile rage
I voted remain, but never mind sweetcheeks.
I have seen the way the way the EU has attempted and on the whole managed to satisfy 27 nations interests through this process.
Does anyone else rue the fact that these negotiators are not on our side? The people we have had negotiating this farce of a situation are the people that will have to negotiate a trade deal with the EU and other countries. Goodness knows what we will end up with.
Re Heidi Nordby Lunde's statement. here's the video.
So here we are, Billy No Mates, pariah state of Europe. They are probably all hoping we do jump off the cliff. Oh and to pick a soundbite if we must from Lammy's excellent speech "Total independence will lead to total isolation".
Does anyone else rue the fact that these negotiators are not on our side?
The EU has some the best negotiators on Earth. The UK has people like David Davis, a man who would pay full price at DFS.
Speech was by David Lammy – MP for Tottenham
His speech has no substance in uniting the people but actually cause further division. Well done.
What I see (this is my opinion) is that Western developed nations, especially EU system, are trying again to exert their dominance over others in ideology. EU might say that they have changed for greater good since the last great wars, but in effect they are still trying to impose their ideology over others especially those nations (weaker or developing or less developed than theirs) with different culture and identities. Called it whatever they want but the fundamentals are the same. They try to impose.
All sides should Not give up but stand firm with their own beliefs. That is democracy good or bad.
David Davis, a man who would pay full price at DFS.
That is him in a nut shell, good analogy lol!
@chewkw
You may have a point if "the EU" was a separate entity from its member states.
Oh god... he's taken his tinfoil helmet off again
Having only heard Motorhead on the radio the I'm quite surprised that Lammy isn't an ugly white bloke with warts.
Yep, anyone who opposes brexit is the Enemy there, the speech was a good one, it's not about convincing the brexit loonies, they are lost, it's about reminding everyone who is wavering that they are getting nothing they were promised.
Ahem... blue passports?
Chewkw
David Lammy's speech may not unite the people of Britain, however he obviously feels strongly European, as do a significant number of remain voters, myself included. I think his words are aimed to try to bring about us staying in the EU which will unite a greater number of people. Half of UK voters will be happy as will other trading nations and certainly our fellow Europeans.
Believe me, Brexit will be the single largest factor in dis-uniting the UK.
Ultimately, do I think letting down the kind of people that voted for Brexit is a price worth paying to ensure unity with my 300 million fellow Europeans?
Most certainly yes! And I got the impression David Lammy thinks so too.
Obviously this would have to be done through persuasive argument and a second referendum. May's deal v staying in the EU.
