leave went all sound bitey, with slogans on buses that were called out as false but that was dismissed as ‘project fear’ ‘we don’t trust experts any more’ and so on, with the added problem that continuing to try to kill those lies put them further into the public eye, and strengthened people’s belief in them.
Absolutely, a typical negative campaign being stronger.
Blame the marketing.
That "not at all facist" piece in the Sun…
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1070615613914140672?s=21
Have you been scared into supporting a hard Brexit yet?
Not sure how they are meant to implement a policy on Brexit without being a government though?
There is no Labour majority in parliament, therefore there is no Labour only path through this mess, agreed.
There is no Conservative majority in parliament, therefore there is no Conservative only path through this mess, either.
And that's before you look at how split the parties are.
Will a general election give either party a working majority? Doubt it.
Will Labour stand on anything other than red Brexit unicorns at a general election? Many MPs will, but clearly the Leader won't be up for it.
I want a general election as soon as possible. That doesn't solve this current mess though, does it. Time for more MPs of all parties to get behind cancelling/extending A50, to stop the clock, and then going back to the people with this. The Labour leader is currently clearly a big barrier to this happening.
I’ll take Farage as a given.
Is that while the BBC transition to Tommy Robinson as their preferred mouthpiece?
Will a general election give either party a working majority? Doubt it.
Depends how the landscape has changed.
Besides Labour would do more for the people that fall through the net after Out.
I think Farage has moderated a bit. He's nowhere near as ascerbic as before.
Buyer's remorse?
I also think it was as much about attention and a broadcasting career/ego too.
People (particularly those who think that Corbyn/Labour could step in and renegotiate) could benefit from reading this summary of how things stand with and in the EU.
Have you been scared into supporting a hard Brexit yet?
Its all a bit dictatorship via the ballot box isnt it? I do wish one of these muppets would clearly explain exactly what is undemocratic about having a second vote.
If the government had ignored the referendum and signed up to the Euro and Schengen area instead they might have a point but one vote and thats it isnt exactly democracy.
It seems to be one of those rare occasions where I'm not in total disagreement with chewkw. As I said before if the Tories annoy the Brexiters by tearing up A50 they are going to be out of power and I'm sure they don't have the backbone to do what's best for the country if it damages the party. So much as I want to believe we are heading towards remain, I fear the Maybot will revert to her "no deal better than bad deal" mantra.
Oh and whilst musing on this I was looking around online for any Brexit related events that may be taking place in my area. Protests, meetings, marches, that sort of thing. What I did come across was this!
FREE SEMINAR: How to Make Big Returns from Brexit (Manchester)
"The opportunites to make money into and out of Brexit are phenomenal and 99.9% of people are quite literally asleep at the wheel."
"Professional Traders see BREXIT as a major opportunity NOW to profit from in the Financial Markets, in multiple instruments across Europe and the UK over the next 1-2 years".
Be in no doubt as to the "opportunities" perceived by speculators and hedge fund managers. It's a Tory wet dream.
Also this link here.
We're still negotiating and arguing with each other and taking no account of the fact that the EU holds all the cards and has no intention of breaking any of its red lines.
If only there was a way to get on their side of the table and forget all this nonsense?
I could really do with being overridden by a few "Unelected bureaucrats" right now, rather than listening to these unicorn mongers.
So what if there are riots?
Surely the official Brexit line is short term hardship for long term gain.
I had always assumed a 'Norway' would be the fall back position. I hadn't realised Norway don't want us (and can veto us).
Also;
“If as I understand UK politicians do not want to be ruled by regulations coming from other countries, why would they accept a country with 38,000 citizens like Lichtenstein being able to veto regulations that the UK wants. That would be the reality.”
I don't know what Labour mean by 'we could negotiate a better deal'. They must know they cannot get more out of the EU than this without giving up more. BUT their six tests surely only point to the Norway model, do't they? So that must be what they consider to be a 'better deal'.
And if less than 50% of the population riots we can ignore them.
I reckon if Norway could get in with our opt-outs, they'd be in the EU in a heartbeat.
Also note that Norway is outside the customs Union. Afaiac we may just as well be out if that's where we end up.
Scottish independence nothing like be Brexit? Don't make me laugh. The parallels are striking in both argument and sentiment.
I don’t know what Labour mean by ‘we could negotiate a better deal’.
They can't, but you can hardly admit that in the world of politics can you.
How are your preparations going?
Obviously, the banks are being labelled as "traitors" on Social Media for preparing for a possible no-deal Brexit in this way… mostly by the very people claiming that only a no-deal Brexit is a real Brexit. Fun, fun.
How are your preparations going?
The large company I work for have already accommodated for No Deal by expanding existing EU locations (Paris, Frankfurt and Poland) to perform the processes that would no longer be allowed in the UK. Notice they have also spread across 3 while they were at it just in case for example Poland left the EU.
A lot of big businesses are quite good at this...
Scottish independence nothing like be Brexit? Don’t make me laugh. The parallels are striking in both argument and sentiment.
showing your ignorance and disdain for the scots. The two are nothing alike and not driven by the smae things. As you have been told repeatedly
you can hardly admit that in the world of politics can you
Well .. actually. You can. It could almost be called a duty, but not by these self serving numpties.
I grew up in the whacky world of Northern Ireland politics, but even the sinn fein election posters at the height of the troubles ("Freedom Justice Peace") caused me less sympathetic cognitive dissonance than listening to may, corbyn & co. these days.
They aren't just pushing political differences they are denying reality.
As an aside, Scottish independence supporters pointing out the stupidity of leaving the EU and abhorring the use of EU citizens as political pawns gives me the same feeling.
( That I've gone down the wrong leg in the trousers of time and things just don't seem to make sense 🙂
He's been told, he just disagrees...
Del - find one racist or anti furriner quote from any Independence minded scots politician - then compare the total lack of racist quotes you find with the constant racist outpourings from those little englanders who want to leave the EU
tj, not to get distracted from the matter at hand, you (and a lot of the independence movement) need to take a step back and "see yourself as others see you".
Telling people they've "been telt" is not an argument (even if you shout it).
Saying that all the fascists are on the unionist side is a bit rich when a Siol nan Gaidheal banner led some of the recent pro independence demonstrations.
At least we'll now be spared the 'spectacle' of a TV debate between surely the most clueless ever leaders of both political parties 'debating' something that they both pretty much agree on
I am not ideologically attached to independence. I'd rather we didn't have to do it but its the only way this little country can be run properly. England is disappearing up a hard right furriner hating alley and its not a place I want to go
As for the differences - they are obvious to anyone who actually follows politics. The drive fro Scots independence is nothing like the drive for brexit. Very different motivations and endpoint.
More on "what the hell are the people at the Sun up to"…
https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/1070591543147446277?s=21
tj I notice that you are prepared to accept comparable quotes from only:
"independence minded scots politicians" OR
"little Englanders who want to leave the EU"
Not altogether comparable groups.
If you expand the quotable group in Scotland to "Little Scotlanders who want to leave the UK (and EU)" for fairness we might have more chance of answering your request?
This 'little Englander' (strongly remain, btw) has no interest in being baited by you TJ, even if you want to call me ignorant and disdainful. You're some way wide of the mark about me.
Back to preparations in case of a no-deal exit… I'm glad that we decided to ignore the government and NHS advice, and began stock piling our own personal supplies… I hope you are as well…
Pharmacists will overrule GPs to ration drugs under a no-deal Brexit, The Times has learnt.
Ministers will order them to alter prescriptions without first contacting the patient’s GP in order to mitigate any extreme shortages, according to a leaked document.
The contingency measure was revealed in an urgent consultation begun this week by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). It called for rapid changes to medicine rules to “support the continuity of supply of medicines in a ‘no-deal’ scenario”.
Oh, and fwiw I don't question the motives of those involved in the Scots quest for independence - mostly laudable I'm sure.
Del - so why did you say its the same as brexit then when it so obviously is not and to make that claim is disparaging to the scots.
Time to let the IndyScot and EngBrex stuff go I think. There are parallels. There are differences. Who knew?!
Also today - threatening the Irish with famine in the event of a No Deal, and the NI Secretary saying she is party to documents that can't be shared with other MPs. No lessons learnt there then.
NI Secretary saying she is party to documents that can’t be shared with other MPs.
Probably just picture books aimed at NI pre-school kids explaining recent history.
No TJ, that's not what I wrote, that's what you read. I said that many of the arguments and sentiments used were the same. There are parallels in the tactics used in both campaigns. You don't like that being pointed out.
There is nothing ignorant or disdainful in that observation.
England is disappearing up a hard right furriner hating alley and its not a place I want to go
You're doing it again: treating English political views as a monolithic entity. I can imagine how you'd feel if I suggested that all pro-independence Scots were motivated by an inferiority complex.
Del – so why did you say its the same as brexit then when it so obviously is not and to make that claim is disparaging to the scots.
TJ is you cannot see any similarities between two different groups of people who want to leave a union to gain “independence” or control of their country etc. then you might be too close to the issue.
From an outside perspective there appear to be some people with similar attitudes. Sadly many of these are quite shouty and loud
Del – so why did you say its the same as brexit
He didn't say it was the same, he said there are parallels. Which is not the same thing.
To me the Scots want to leave an abusive partner.
The UK wants to leave a partner that has been rather nice to us.
To me the Scots want to leave an abusive partner.
The UK wants to leave a partner that has been rather nice to us.
To follow that analogy..... I'm going hard for a Norwegian model if there's a genuine chance i can get it.
I’m going hard for a Norwegian model if there’s a genuine chance i can get it.
I'd like that too, but at my age I don't think I'll get one.
Also today – threatening the Irish with famine in the event of a No Deal
Yeah, I've read about Patel's comments regarding this and using the "threat" to go back to the negotiating table. Jesus wept. Do these expensively educated muppets not learn any history at all?
As you can imagine, however badly this news has been greeted by progressives in the UK, it is NOT going down well in the RoI. Is this how Brexiteers think they're going to win friends and influence people?
Do these expensively educated muppets not learn any history at all?
Well 'International Development Secratary' Penny Mordaunt was recently shocked to discover that voters in northern ireland generally voted along sectarian lines. I mean.. SERIOUSLY? This is a government minister. Have you been living in a ****ing box in a shed for the last 40 years?
This is the calibre of the politicians we're presently saddled with. Is it any wonder this is all such a total shambles. Especially the whole Irish border issue. The level of ignorance is terrifying. Its like they exist in some parallel universe
