Don't bite at chewkw, he may have been away for a bit, but he's still an utter fanny.
Chewkw actually raises some decent points sometimes, he is right in that would be a very third world tin pot tactic to use. I wouldn't always dismiss all of his daft comments out of hand.
If she ever proposed no deal she wouldn't last the night.
epicyclo, I agree it must still be seriously worrying for some and they have my sympathy. If I had the power to force a better solution, I would do so in a heartbeat. As it is, I can only recommend you enjoy a glass of whisky (as I am doing) and focus on the realisation that it really is going to work out ok in the end. Brexit is so dead, it's stone cold buried. This is a time to celebrate, not panic.
Yep. This is basically a question of English Nationalism, particularly so now that the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament have voted against the deal.
Not really: a majority of Welsh, and significant minority of Scots voted to leave.
its over 2:1 remain now in Scotland - thats very different.
the jingistic nationalism that drives brexit is not something you here much of in Scotland. Its certainly an english nationalism that stirs up anti europe feelings
So what stirred up 4 out of every 10 Scottish voters?
Chewkw actually raises some decent points sometimes,
No he doesn’t. He just decides what the most controversial position is and posts based On that. Trolling 101
No he doesn’t. He just decides what the most controversial position is and posts based On that. Trolling 101
So what deal do you want coz there will always be people who disagreed.
I want a blue and yellow deal.
Chewkw actually raises some decent points sometimes
Vocabulary is getting better..
Ransos -- jingoistic little englander nationalists.
Seriously dude - all this hankering over empire and wanting to / believing we can punch above our weight is a pretty alien thing up here.
Its nearer 2.5 in 10 scots anyway now supporty brexit - we have our share of numpties as well
Photo's leak of current Brexit planning session....
the jingistic nationalism that drives brexit is not something you here much of in Scotland. Its certainly an english nationalism that stirs up anti europe feelings
the jingistic nationalism that drives independence is something you here much of in Scotland. Its certainly a scottish nationalism that stirs up anti british feelings
Two sides of the same coin IMO. Any bad reason for Brexit is a bad reason for Independence. And yet...
The idea that May has some machiavellian masterplan and is bent on self-sabotage is fun but obviously complete bollocks.
Yeah but it's hard to see how someone could be so utterly thick and get to be PM. That's even more depressing than any of Brexit. Unless she knows something we don't.
tjagain
Its nearer 2.5 in 10 scots anyway now supporty brexit – we have our share of numpties as well
Not so much numpties as devoted consumers of such literary masterpieces as the Daily Mail, Express etc.
I think the lesson from this is that the owners of mass media have too much concentrated power, and we need to fragment the ownership.
molgrips
...Unless she knows something we don’t.
Where the lost files are?
Don’t lump me in with the angry brigade.
Surrey voted Remain.
Yeah but it’s hard to see how someone could be so utterly thick and get to be PM. That’s even more depressing than any of Brexit. Unless she knows something we don’t.
Thick and piss poor at planning at not the same thing, I know lots of intelligent people who can't execute a plan they came up with.
She is leader because nobody else really wanted it - that bit she failed to work out.
the jingistic nationalism that drives brexit is not something you here much of in Scotland
I’ve been working down in england for the last 2 months. Farnborough to be precise. I’ve been staggered at how hard it is to find anyone that supports Brexit down here. I’ve asked pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to for any decent length of time. Only a taxi driver got a bit squirmy when I asked his position, which told me he probable voted leave but knew in the cold hard light of day, he couldn’t defend his position
"Don’t lump me in with the angry brigade.
Surrey voted Remain."
And 'my' local MP is Dominic-bloody-Raab in a 60+ percent remain constituency. Now, I wouldnt vote for any Tory round here (tho the councillors are actually not complete idiots), but how does deselection work... ? ;p
Anyone know which sacrificial lambs have drawn the short store from the two main parties and are on QT tonight?
I’ll take Farage as a given.
Seriously dude – all this hankering over empire and wanting to / believing we can punch above our weight is a pretty alien thing up here.
Oh come on. What was the Independence referendum, if not nationalism?
I never really saw it as nationalism, more of a recognition that the current model of how Britain works, ie Londoncentric, doesn't really work for us up here any more.
They think Derby is in the north ffs.
never really saw it as nationalism, more of a recognition that the current model of how Britain works, ie Londoncentric, doesn’t really work for us up here any more.
You could argue that about a lot of places.
never really saw it as nationalism, more of a recognition that the current model of how Britain works, ie Londoncentric, doesn’t really work for us up here any more.
Yeah and Birmingham has a population that is 1/5th of Scotland.... Sometimes it's about numbers
She is leader because nobody else really wanted it – that bit she failed to work out.
Yeah but she got to be Home Secretary of her own accord before all this.
I never really saw it as nationalism, more of a recognition that the current model of how Britain works, ie Londoncentric, doesn’t really work for us up here any more.
I'm sure there are many reasons for the indy vote just as there are many reasons for a leave vote.
Re BoardinBob - presumably you are some kind of reasonably well paid consultant or professional - the main predictor of remain vs leave vote was educational attainment. If you were down in Farnborough laying bricks or something I'm sure your findings would be different.
I'll just leave this here for folk who still can't understand that SNP is nothing like BNP
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46457341
TL:DR? The racist nutters in Scotland mainly vote for Unionist parties.
Yeah but she got to be Home Secretary of her own accord before all this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron%E2%80%93Clegg_coalition
Under the coalition, looking at the choices not much to go on there!! Anyway her record stands for itself there
She WILL bow to the people with No Deal.
Her political career will be strengthen tremendously if she goes for No Deal.
∆∆∆∆
Im not convinced he makes good points myself
'You could argue that about a lot of places'
I could, but I live here, not in those other places.
So watching QT, The Labour Party policy on Brexit is ‘we want a general election!’
Anything else Shami? Any other policies on Brexit? No? Ok... thanks for your input.
How are you going to get this general election then? Ask Theresa nicely?
Flawless plan! Prepare for government comrades!
What do we have to do to convince the SNP to start putting MP’s up for election south of the border? Theyre the only party talking any sense!
Ransos - Scotroutes has answered it but the drive for scottish independence is nothing like the drive for Brexit. Scottish independence is open, outward looking and not driven by hatred. Brexit on the other hand..................
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In the meantime, The S*n has published an editorial seemingly threatening another Jo Cox if angry Brexiteers don't get their way. We've gone from "sunlit uplands" via "the economy will really grow wings" to "trainers will be £6 cheaper" to incitement to riot.
The Brexiteers have truly lost the argument if this is all that they have.
Scottish independence is open, outward looking and not driven by hatred. Brexit on the other hand
Not all leavers are racists or hate foreigners. A lot of people have no idea why we spend all that money on EU membership. If you thought it was all a waste of time and it was all about unelected foreign officials bothering us with useless rules, why wouldn't you vote leave? It's not all about hatred.
squirrelking
the jingistic nationalism that drives independence is something you here much of in Scotland. Its certainly a scottish nationalism that stirs up anti british feelings
Nah, it's watching how Scottish issues get dealt with in the House of Commons.
It's EVEL.
I’ve been working down in england for the last 2 months. Farnborough to be precise. I’ve been staggered at how hard it is to find anyone that supports Brexit
Just because you couldn't find many doesn't mean they aren't there. Real life isn't a forum most people aren't interested in confrontation. If they meet someone asking how they voted they'll most likely go along with what they think you want to hear. Locally to me I'd say 2/3 of people voted to leave and thats staying firm, they just want it done and sorted. But they aren't going around fretting about it, their day to day lives are still whats important.
I'm a taxi driver and as far as I can remember I've had one person who's asked me straight out how I voted. As always I said politics and religion are never up for discussion in my cab.
'not much jingistic (sic) nationalism in scotland'. Thanks, that's hilarious.
So watching QT, The Labour Party policy on Brexit is ‘we want a general election!’
Anything else Shami? Any other policies on Brexit? No? Ok… thanks for your input.
Not sure how they are meant to implement a policy on Brexit without being a government though?
Here is a bit of official detail for you.
"Labour could do a better Brexit deal. Give us the chance"
A lot of people have no idea why we spend all that money on EU membership. If you thought it was all a waste of time and it was all about unelected foreign officials bothering us with useless rules, why wouldn’t you vote leave
Very true. That is why the Remain campaign should have educated people on the benefits of spending the money, the rules which are actually good and better than the UK would have come up with. They should have done the same with immigration.
If those keys things had been explained properly and people still voted Leave that would have been a different matter. I don't know many people that voted Leave but their understanding if very slim and when posed with a few simple questions they can't answer them because they have not looked into it but more importantly no-one has spoon fed them the information.
Not sure how they are meant to implement a policy on Brexit without being a government though?
Combined with being in a similar position to Tories. Just use the chance to try and get an election and once in power can at least implement stuff that is fairer and deal with Brexit fallout in a better way.
Absolutely. That would be a win - win.
Not all leavers are racists or hate foreigners. A lot of people have no idea why we spend all that money on EU membership. If you thought it was all a waste of time and it was all about unelected foreign officials bothering us with useless rules, why wouldn’t you vote leave? It’s not all about hatred
One particular 'friend' a local small businessman - sees it as a chance to do something different / better.
I get that. But it is a gamble at that level. Having had 40 years in , you could argue let's see in another 40 years what would be the benefits...
Argument for me would be though it's not worth the gamble. Particularly as the whole process will act as a screen for anything the Tories screw up.
"Ah well you voted Brexit."
at the risk of rehashing arguments from 1000 pages ago
leave went all sound bitey, with slogans on buses that were called out as false but that was dismissed as 'project fear' 'we don't trust experts any more' and so on, with the added problem that continuing to try to kill those lies put them further into the public eye, and strengthened people's belief in them.
I think I know why leave won and it's not all down to racists or idiots. And once the dust settled despite not liking the result, I respected the vote and believed we could make a fist of being outside, even if I sincerely think we are worse off for it.
But subsequently, there hasn't been a credible alternative offered to being in the EU. Sure there are alternatives but none are suitable, and now we are where we are.
Sure there are lots of people who still want out, and some are racists. Some are idiots. The ones that scare me most are those that either still want out because they simply cannot admit that what they are being served up is not what they thought they were getting, and those at the top that are doing it in order to cling to power or strengthen a hard capitalist agenda. But if leavers can't see what they're getting isn't what they wanted......then the chances of them seeing why the Johnsons and Moggs and others are so intent on their vision is even slimmer. But back to the start ..... if you point it out you're told 'project fear' or 'you have to get behind it and back it otherwise it'll fail and it'll be your fault' all over again.
Ransos – Scotroutes has answered it but the drive for scottish independence is nothing like the drive for Brexit. Scottish independence is open, outward looking and not driven by hatred. Brexit on the other hand………………
And you know this how? I can think of principled reasons for leaving the EU, just as there will be nationalist Scots motivated by hatred of the English. It's beyond daft to present English views as a monolithic entity.
