Forum menu
Sky is still where its supposed to be, no plumes of smoke evident
That's not really what I asked, is it?
I mean of course there are no major natural disasters and that, but that's not really the issue at stake is it? You're diverting attention from the actual problems by being facetious.
The economy, UK businesses, our jobs - is that all ok now, is that what you're saying?
The economy, UK businesses, our jobs - is that all ok now, is that what you're saying?
We'll cope, we'll pull through, we always do.
Thats what makes Britain [b][u]Great.[/u][/b]
Sorry the "great" bit is so it's not confused with Brittany.
And that's the only actual fact you're likely to get in this discussion.
We'll cope?
Who's WE?
This kind of vague waffle really pisses me off. Sure, the economy will probably only shrink by some percents, the country will continue, but that's not the real story is it?
How many people's lives will be bollocksed up, and for how long? That's the headline issue. The GDP figure is only important because it indicates how shit things will get for the vulnerable. A 5% drop in GDP doesn't mean everyone is simply 5% worse off.
<Checks out window>. In my lifetime I've heard nothing but constant predictions of imminent disaster via everything from bird flu to nuclear war, amazingly we're still here, as no doubt most of us will be tomorrow...
And many of these were from those who were predicting loss of sovereignty, a massive EU financial collapse, and sundry other dire consequences of remaining in.
Why didn't you choose to ignore those too?
Now stop whinging like a p***y and crack on making the best of it - like we (as in we as a nation) always have done.
The phrase the Remain campaign [b]should[/b] have used...
Just more typical jingoistic bollocks from a brexiter, no ideas and no clue. Well done for dragging the country down to your level of idiocy.
Let's be 100% clear, the FTSE isn't doing well, in real terms, the FTSE is down almost 9% on where it was 2 weeks ago.
Well done for dragging the country down to your level of idiocy.
If you recall, some days ago I suggested that a great many leave voters would be quite happy to steer this whole thing into the ground just to hear the screams of terror from the the bourgeoisie who have run their lives for so long
are you scared yet?
[img] 
[/img]
. Well done for dragging the country down to your level of idiocy.
It's got a way to go yet to get that low!
More depressing reading..
More depressing reading..
Well if it's depressing reading you're after you've certainly looked in the right place. I invariably get depressed if I foolishly read the first few sentences of an article in the Guardian's Comment Section.
The Guardian letters pages tend to cheer me up though - there's usually a fair few letters from readers who roundly denounce pseudo-lefty defeatist liberal claptrap.
Well if it's depressing reading you're after you've certainly looked in the right place.
You are of course right, we should all be reading the Daily Mail / Telegraph and rejoicing in the new found Greatness of our Whites only Isle post Brexit.....
@cloudnine deja-vu, a few pages back
@igm ftse 100 is up partly as many companies in it have significant amounts of their earnings outside the UK, so a weaker £ means higher profits means higher share price
Once agin folks Osbourne floated the idea of lower corporation tax, as he took a total beating personally in the campaign I wouldn't trust his motives at a time when Tories have not elected a new PM yet and he has little idea what his role would be
Whites only Isle post Brexit.....
There will be far more non-whites post Brexit when we ditch the racsist immigration policy that is "freedom" of movement and move to best-person-for-the-job
Hmm.. still unsure as to how this hiring will work after brexit.
Surely if you advertise for a job, you'd have to advertise all over the world, and I reckon applicants would be limited to those who wanted to emigrate long term.
Now, if you advertise for a job in say London, you automatically get all the people who've come over and are just looking. Or who've left one job and are starting another. In say the US, your visa would be tied to your job - so leave the job, leave the country. You can't necessarily simply switch jobs.
Point is - even with visa based immigration, hiring is far less flexible. I think we'll get far fewer foreign workers post brexit.
All good questions, ones other countries have worked out. Not least Oz whomtook double the (official) number of immigrants as did the UK last year
say the US, your visa would be tied to your job - so leave the job, leave the country. You can't necessarily simply switch jobs.Different visa types available, those tied to one company or flexible letting you move jobs
ones other countries have worked out. Not least Oz whomtook double the (official) number of immigrants as did the UK last year
I don't think you quite understand my point.
It's not the simple numbers of immigrants. It's how employers find the employee they need.
Different visa types available, those tied to one company or flexible letting you move jobs
How do you get one of these?
footflaps - MemberYou are of course right, we should all be reading the Daily Mail / Telegraph
Well I think you'll find plenty of depressing news in the Daily Mail so I wouldn't recommend reading that if want cheering up.
BTW I have no idea what you mean by the "Greatness of our Whites only Isle post Brexit", our non-white British citizens have nothing to do with the EU. Was it a cack-handed attempt to call me a racist?
It's not the simple numbers of immigrants. It's how employers find the employee they need.
There is this thing that seems to have caught on which enables people all over the world to communicate - its called something like the Global Interweb or something similar.
At some point the powers that be will work out its easier to cook up a deal that pleases most of the 48% and a decent number of the 52% than it is to work something out to please the 52%.I wonder what happens then?
Be worried, a **** like me regularly worms his way into the advisers bar at Westminster. Word on the grapevine is that a lot of politicians are worried about what could effectively amount to a brownshirt revolution - and really actually mean to appeal to the racist brigade to placate them. There is no way in hell that we will be staying in the single market.
Are you telling me that the word in the lobbies is that Westminster now thinks the UK is so racist that it'll threaten the stability of the country?
And if that is the case that appeasement is the answer?
I don't think skin colour is going to matter much in that scenario if you're foreign. Or even if you're not. Racists can forget about discrimination when they are dealing out trouble.
But let us hope it doesn't get there.
There is this thing that seems to have caught on which enables people all over the world to communicate - its called something like the Global Interweb or something similar
Hehehehe good one!
[img] 
:large[/img]
A letter from a grown up.
he raises a good point
However when nothing materialises from this change they may well ask what democracy has to offer them etc
Personally I think the only viable option is to negotiate with Brussels and put the offer to the people as to whether to accept it or not.
I dont think that is all that great either. However the closeness of the vote means there is little much required for a reversal of the vote.
To just ignore it is undemocratic to have another votes smacks of having votes till we get the result that we want
However what was promised on exit clearly cannot be delivered on so they voted for a big pile of BS . That is why we have this shitty mess
I do think some remainders are not taking the result at well. I feel their pain but the people, stupid racist moronic, informed, wise whatever have spoken, We cannot just ignore because we don't like the result or them. Leavers have to accept some folk voted for something that was never going to happen, They were tricked , The NHS wont be saved, we wont save that, we wont stop free movement, we won't get to both leave and stay in the EU etc. We leave and things will be worse. Less red tape meant cutting business tax and reducing workers rights.
Its a shitty mess but whatever solution we do it cannot involve just ignoring the vote nor pretending it never happened.
personally in favour of lower corporation tax - well done George. Keep at it.
Jambas, why are you complaining? Obvious that exiting EU makes tax harmonisation more difficult and tax competion between jurisdictions more likely. I said a much during the debates. Plus Osborne also is thinking about the potential damage to inward investment that the stupid vote may/has inflicted.
Be worried, a **** like me regularly worms his way into the advisers bar at Westminster. Word on the grapevine is that a lot of politicians are worried about what could effectively amount to a brownshirt revolution - and really actually mean to appeal to the racist brigade to placate them.
Don't see it myself, the leave vote was from the left and right with plenty of immigrant communities voting for leave. At the biggest movement for leave which can mobilise people on the street is of the left.
The racists who suddenly have decided they have the freedom to abuse will eventually disappear back under their rock as the community reactions don't support their narrative/ views and action taken against those where possible
Finally there isn't a charismatic far right politician for these "brown shirts" to coalesce around if they could mobilise as demonstrated by the EDL etc
Not so grown up that he couldn't restrain from a bullshit dig at students and 'the Labour left'
+1 JY.
Nail on the head..
Mefty - Odd that he doesn't understand what the vote was - advice to parliament - given his stated profession.
He also got his job title wrong according to the KCL website.
Vernon Bogdanor CBE, FBA is Research Professor at the Institute for Contemporary British History. He was formerly Professor of Government at Oxford University
Distinguished man, assuming he wrote the letter, but something is not quite right.
Actually a strangely similar CV to my father - also a member of the Royal Academy and a professor until his retirement. His view was - daft way to run a referendum, they should disregard a vote that is that close.
People have had enough of experts?
Odd that he doesn't understand what the vote was - advice to parliament - given his stated profession
That is a legalistic approach - Cameron said it was a final vote - that is the political reality - he is a professor of politics - used to be at Oxford where he taught politics on the PPE course.
The newspaper may have put the title in. He is very well known as he is used by the BBC extensively.
EDIT: Royal Academy - i think you mean something else the RA is for artists as in the fine arts.
Its a shitty mess but whatever solution we do it cannot involve just ignoring the vote nor pretending it never happened.
Clearly. However that doesn't necessarily mean pulling the plug either.
People have had enough of experts?
Hah.. yes.. if leavers can ignore experts, so can we 🙂
A letter from a grown up.
It might well be a letter from a grown-up, he doesn't mention his age, but if so he proves that even grown-ups don't always know what they are talking about.
Firstly I would suggest that antisemitism is "more likely" to be found among BNP members and Stormfront users in Sunderland and Hartlepool than among university students. Yeah, yeah, I know.......anyone who criticises Israel is antisemitic.
And secondly, [i]"Were they to succeed, the poorer members of the community might well begin to ask whether democracy has anything at all to offer them; that would indeed be a very dangerous development".[/i]
Vernon Bogdanor needs to check the details of the referendum results if he wants to comment on them. If he did he would notice that some of the most prosperous areas of the UK, including the English shires, voted to Leave. The neighbouring borough to mine, Sutton, which is one of the more affluent boroughs in London voted to Leave.
He could look at this map to help him :
[img] 
[/img]
And he would perhaps then conclude that also some of the wealthiest members of our community might well begin to ask whether democracy has anything at all to offer them; that would indeed be a very dangerous development.
I think the professor of government is talking through his arse, although I agree with the general point which he is making very badly. Just my opinion mind.
There is some evidence that a lot of people came out to vote, and vote leave, who don't normally - enough to swing the vote - they are assumed to be the disenfranchised poor - as I am sure you are aware these are people JC needs to bring out again.
"Wales wouldn't vote for independence even if it meant the country could stay in the EU as the rest of the UK left shocker"
There is some evidence that a lot of people came out to vote, and vote leave, who don't normally - enough to swing the vote - they are assumed to be the disenfranchised poor - as I am sure you are aware these are people JC needs to bring out again.
Because of course prosperous voters who always vote wouldn't be bothered if the referendum result was ignored.
Them disenfranchised poor are always causing trouble if they don't get what they want.
Mefty- sorry, very late for me. British Academy, not Royal Academy. And by member I meant Fellow. And it was Political Science that my father was a professor of. So my point although incredibly badly made was there somewhere underneath the mistakes.
Or in other words, I knew what I meant even if I gloriously failed to say it.
.Plus Osborne also is thinking about the potential damage to inward investment that the stupid vote may/has inflicted
This in bucket loads, obvs I'm no economist, but of course people won't want to invest in the UK until they know their status in the EU, is b by far out largest trading partner
Gideon needs to attract investors desperately to offset this,
Already signs that UK universities are seeing a financial hit,
'short term pain' actually translates to job loss and misery for many
[url= http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d62358f4-431f-11e6-9b66-0712b3873ae1.html#axzz4Dbs1I3xc ]our name is mud[/url]
#paywall.
edit: £ @ 31 year low / dollar overnight. Did the FT have any more info than the beeb?
yep sorry same for me now, should have copied it when I had the chance 😳 it was about the low £ and it's effects.
there was a lot more on government (home and abroad) bond yields falling etc
Low point of £/$ was 1.06 in 1985 - did the world end (from a UK perspective) ?
did the world end (from a UK perspective) ?
tell you what Jamby, I'll kick you in the balls every day from now until 2025, would you be happy or just the world didn't end....
How long did the recovery from that take?
jambalaya - Member
Low point of £/$ was 1.06 in 1985 - did the world end (from a UK perspective) ?
Not for our family as we were just back from the States and re-patriating cash.
For others in the Glasgow area most of the early to mid-80s was pretty bad. Perked up around 89-90 and then went into recession again around 92.
Job adverts seem to have taken a bit of a plunge. 700,000 less in the week following the vote;
[img] 
[/img]
My wife (EU nationality) received this letter from the Chief Executive of the NHS Trust she works for this week... discuss
I wanted to take this opportunity to confirm to all our EU staff that you are valued and hugely appreciated by the Trust. You are an integral and vital part of our health and care family and your skills and compassionate care directly benefits patients, families and our wider communities.We want your vital contribution to continue; you are appreciated by me, all your colleagues, and most of all, by those we care for. The weeks and months ahead will bring a period of uncertainty for us all but I hope you will continue to work here with us.
#LoveOurEUStaff
Final hashtag on a formal letter from the Chief Executive did indeed happen. I guess this comes from good intentions but ... When I read I thought why wouldn't she be appreciated all of a sudden? Is this just a way to say "don't worry about all the racist media you've been seeing, we still need you"? Maybe I'm to close to it but it threw me a bit
The more I look at that map the more I'm in favour of partition. England and Wales roughly 47% remain. So draw up a new border from Aberystwyth to Birmingham then across to the Wash. North joins up with Scotland and we get most of the decent scenery. Of course the channel tunnel would need extending to Sheffield.
DanW - try and think the best of said chief executive. They're in a a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.
It's not whether she is appreciated, it's whether in this environment people are willing to stand up and say it.
I completely get the damned if they do, damned if they don't side of it but I personally don't think there is a blanket need to send this to everyone of EU nationality. Just more flapping and it shouldn't need to be said IMO. That said, a lot of British colleagues saw no issue with the letter.
It's not whether she is appreciated, it's whether in this environment people are willing to stand up and say it.
Put like that, you have won me around 🙂
Low point of £/$ was 1.06 in 1985 - did the world end (from a UK perspective) ?
Another non-argument.
No-one's predicting the actual end of the world. People are predicting difficult economic conditions. Can you say that conditions won't be difficult? Can you say jobs won't be lost and there won't be a significant recession, as a result of this?
People are predicting difficult economic conditions. Can you say that conditions won't be difficult? Can you say jobs won't be lost and there won't be a significant recession, as a result of this?
Can you say that there wouldn't be if we stayed in?
Me? No.
However, experts seem to think it was quite likely that none of this would be happening if we'd stayed in.
Another pretty lame line of reasoning though. It's like saying "Can you be sure I WON'T get cancer if I don't smoke 40 a day?"
Experts seem to think it was quite likely that none of this would be happening if we'd stayed in though.
Yebbut we shouldn't listen to experts.
wwaswas - MemberJob adverts seem to have taken a bit of a plunge. 700,000 less in the week following the vote;
I've said it earlier in this thread, but I went out for a beer with a mate who's contracting for the DWP last week. He was saying that everyone was now in a weird limbo as the big cheeses change all their plans. They're now expecting a big increase in unemployment, which is obviously going to cost a lot of money, as tax receipts shrink.
But as we're repeatedly being told by the Leavers. This is all a price worth paying. A price worth paying for what, they never seem to reveal. It must be really really good if they won't even mention it. Its going to be a great surprise! Can't wait!
But anyway... in the meantime I'm going to go outside and wave a little flag and sing Land of Hope and Glory. I presume the people who are about to lose their jobs will agree that its a price worth paying (for them) that I can now do that with my heart swelling with nationalist fervour, safe in the knowledge that I have taken back control
And if we all have to pay more tax, and/or slash public spending yet further as a result of that, then so be it
*Salutes the Union Jack*
[img] 
[/img]
A price worth paying for what,
Taking our country back, of course 🙄
(Note: sarcasm was used in this post).
"don't worry about all the racist media you've been seeing, we still need you"?
this I think.. I've seen a few similar recently
Reads to me like, "Please don't get the hump and leave the country while the government tries to figure out which is their arse and which is the shotgun barrel. They could be a while."My wife (EU nationality) received this letter from the Chief Executive of the NHS Trust she works for this week... discuss
We got an email to all European employees from our CO, waffling about how this will not effect the company etc, not a single thing about how the people employed might be effected. It looked like he had sent the wrong one and it was intended for shareholders not employees, ****ing tosser.
Personally I think the only viable option is to negotiate with Brussels and put the offer to the people as to whether to accept it or not.
We've already been there, back in February and the concessions were poor, part of me wonders whether that was done because the technocrats at the EU (1) really didn't understand the situation or (2) really wanted the UK out.
If we are going out then might be worth sounding out the possibility of set up a new trading group made up of Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Turkey? and then negotiate as a whole.
[img] 
[/img]
Meanwhile , predicted collapse of EU seems to have fizzled out
that's only because they fear the economic consequences, not because they agree with the EUs political vision.
Short-termism rules...
Wait, so being concerned about your economy is bad and cowardly?
I don't agree with the EU's political vision either - but I still voted in.
I don't agree with the EU's political vision either - but I still voted in.
hypocrite
hypocrite
??
I'd don't agree with everything the EU does either, but it's better than the alternative (not that i'm even remotely clear what the alternative is at the moment)
Meanwhile , predicted collapse of EU seems to have fizzled out
Well looking at the way 'Our Great Nation' has been carrying on for the last couple of weeks, even the most corrupt, impoverished banana republic on the planet must be laughing their tits off at us, and thinking 'whatever we do next, we definitely won't be doing anything as stupid as that!!!'
[I]Low point of £/$ was 1.06 in 1985 - did the world end (from a UK perspective) ? [/I]
No, but the UK flat-lined for a while before heading downwards and only really coming out in the late 90's - or at least it did for us in the north.
No, but the UK flat-lined for a while before heading downwards and only really coming out in the late 90's - or at least it did for us in the north.
Its ok. its just the north. It doesn't count*. Thats the 'Price Worth Paying'
* See also: Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Midlands and the South West (apart from the nice coastal villages with our second homes in)
@binners et al my point exactly
I'll kick you in the balls every day from now until 2025, would you be happy or just the world didn't end....
I don't agree with the EU's political vision either - but I still voted in.
hypocrite
What the f? How can I be hypocritical if I'm telling you all about it on here?
Point is - that the EU is imperfect, but IMO it's overall worth being involved in. And if you're in, you have the possibility to effect change.
Brexit explained :
Point is - that the EU is imperfect, but IMO it's overall worth being involved in. And if you're in, you have the possibility to effect change.
I was going to vote in as well for similarly hyprocritical reasons - I didn't think the UK as a whole was in a good enough state (poor levels of education, reliant on London for most of its economy, etc) to weather the storm of the break, although ideally it should make the break.
The bloody train problems at Waterloo conspired to stop me though 🙁
The wife voted out though.
The word you are looking for isn't 'hypocritical' but I accept the point 🙂
we got the we love eu email, with no hashtag tho 🙁
Following the result of the referendum, with the UK voting to leave the EU, there has been much speculation, mostly pessimistic, on what this will mean for the UK and its relationship with Europe. This will undoubtedly be unsettling for those of you from other EU countries and I write to reassure you that your place in the BCI and in UK cancer research remains as important and vital today as it was before the referendum. You are all valued to us at the BCI!The parting of the UK from the EU will clearly be a major change, but it is impossible to predict how this will play out. Those media outlets that are now suggesting all sorts of fearful repercussions are the same newspapers, TV and social media which, only a week ago, predicted that we would remain in the EU and that Boris Johnson would be the next Prime Minister! It would be wise not to believe almost anything that is being said in the media as they, and we, simply do not know.
Our politicians have to deal with these issues, businessmen and banks with theirs, but our fundamental purpose remains the same, which is to remain one of the best cancer institutes in the UK, with a cohesive and collegiate team of the highest calibre whose work ensures that our research leads to improved treatment and survival for people with cancer. Cancer does not discriminate between who is and who isn’t in the EU – in the face of this enemy, we are all equal.
The wife voted out though.
Divorce - it's the only reasonable course of action. 😉
or...
[img] 
[/img]
😉
The wife voted out though.
Divorce - it's the only reasonable course of action.
No need; she'll resign soon enough.