magine Boris Johnson interviewing for a role of international strategy manager for a multinational company.
He would probably get the job due to the links he has.
Well it looks like civil war is about to erupt in the Conservative party. JRM siding with Boris, you can’t make this stuff up. We are months away from a disaster and they are squabbling amongst themselves.
Yes isn't it great fun?
Not so good for the many whose lives are being ****ed up of course.
Marina Hyde nailed it in the Guardian, as always. She noted that for Dave, George, Boris and Jacob, they were all brought up in such privilege, insulated by such wealth, that there are absolutely no consequences to any of your actions.
A luxury not enjoyed by the rest of us.
So it literally is just a game, and you can play it as recklessly as you like, because for you personally, there will never be any serious impact
So.. if this results in no deal, might it result in a second referendum and no actual Brexit? Seems like a possibility now, however slim.
So it literally is just a game,
Always has been to a lot of politicians. Strange that people vote for them isn't it.
With my in laws and I'm astounded to find out that every pole pays no taxes and sends every penny back to Poland while claiming benefits.
It's going to be a long day.
This chap (one of the much derided expert/remoaner/elite) looks to be getting more and more attention on Twitter. When he is not making Farage look like a prick, his threads make for bleak reading - we really are being governed by absolute mediocrities.
https://twitter.com/JasonJHunter/status/1027624554221527041
Very informative thread on what will happen to EU nationals status in the event of a no deal. Looks like i might have to book a one way flight for me and the mrs in march...
https://twitter.com/JasonJHunter/status/1028343872647323649?s=19
I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years you had to apply (with a £65 charge) and can apply up to around 202n something. Of course why you would need to prove anything when the government has all the data already for most people (PAYE, NI etc,.) is strange
I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years
do you know or does anyone know what is required as proof? I mean you can have a bank account pay bills etc but not be a resident. Or you can live here and have almost nothing in your name. I remember when I went from being a student to a property person and had no utilities, leases or anything to prove where I had been for a long time.
i do not believe all the immigration records are up to anything. I can already see the tabloids uncovering a house which has 1000 people living in it on fake paper trails
I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years you had to apply (with a £65 charge) and can apply up to around 202n something. Of course why you would need to prove anything when the government has all the data already for most people (PAYE, NI etc,.) is strange
But its not in law yet (remember according to the UK nothings agreed until everything is agreed). Day 1 of no deal puts things in motion, every EU citizen would be come illegal meaning employers have to sack them, bank accounts have to be frozen etc and you'd have to leave (or face deportation) and fight the fight from outside the UK.
This could all be avoided if the UK would legislate to give some breathing space if theres a no deal however Tories giving foreigners a break is a insane notion.
I am sure there will be exemptions for rich ones.
Just another one of the countless multitudes of things that haven’t been addressed that will have a potentially life-changing impact on the lives of so many people.
The lazy, self-absorbed, self-serving posturing of our politicians (on all sides) and total refusal to take these things seriously, is absolutely criminal!
I really can’t see anything other than massive civil unrest next year, because it won’t matter which way you voted in the referendum, you’ll still be totally ****ed when the economy ceases to function.
Strangely, it may end up unifying the country to a certain degree as the mountains of lies spouted by the Brexiteer shysters are exposed for what they are. I don’t think many will be in the mood for Boris’s bumbling or Rees Moggs 18th century shtick when the shit really hits the fan
bank accounts have to be frozen
The uk has some very flexible banking rules so I would not expect this... the required visa and/or paperwork required very quickly is a concern.
imagine we crash out in March next year. So seven months (six if you don’t count the holiday Parliament are on and even less with a Christmas break), and in this time a verification and visa system needs to be decided and voted on, potentially a points system established with provisions for people already in the country, IT systems deployed, training established and there still needs to be time for people to apply....
by being idiots the government will force themselves into a corner where the only option is to do massive blanket acceptances with no checks. I mean you would hope that they have at least beefed up immigration tracking in the last two years...
Unifying maybe but the arguement will still be either "Its the foreigners (EU) fault" or "it's the rich right wingers fault".
Not sure the UK has enough group intelligence to admit to itself which one it is.
The uk has some very flexible banking rules so I would not expect this…
the HO already asks Banks to do this
I stand corrected as the Uk used to be a place where you did not have to be a resident to hold s bank account. Or at least most banks had some kind of banking device to cover this scenario.
The checks will be worthless though. Much like the landlords requirement to verify legal status for tenants.
When I was in Oz they could check my status online with immigration, in the US you have visas and entry permits. My understanding is that the home office does not have a centralised database and track movement across all borders (especially NI) so they rely on individuals looking at ID (and being able to spot a fake) and following up periodically to see if status has changed...
what a shit show...
I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years
Can you account for all your movements over the last 5 years? I sure as hell can't!!
And what about, say, someone who interrupts that 5 years to study or work in another EU country? Stuffed.
Given the home offices track record on immigration recently = windrush scandal anyone? I am certain this will cause major issues for individuals.
Can you account for all your movements over the last 5 years? I sure as hell can’t!!
On the the plus side do you think the Home Office that the systems and resources to check? Everything we be on trust... Anyone who entered via the Dublin method is pretty untraceable
Yup, the home office and ukvi can't cope with current demands (by design- the departments were steadily degraded under the last 2 home secretaries as part of the hostile enviroment, to make it harder to gain legal access. Frinstance to the best of my knowledge not a single ATAS clearance has been issued within their timescales for the last 2 years- certainly none of ours ever come in less than 100% late)
"I really can’t see anything other than massive civil unrest next year,"
You mean "wanton criminality", right?
Indeed.
it’ll be interesting when it all goes off though, given how the Police have been treated by the Tory’s over recent years, including being lectured by headmistress May.
I doubt they’ll have much enthusiasm for defending these morons
I doubt they’ll have much enthusiasm for defending these morons
Trouble is these morons don't lose anything in a riot where shops are looted and cars are set on fire. They still have their money and pensions...
I would like to see protests outside of their houses but I don't see it happening. I would not like to see there houses set on fire or their families (children) harassed or anything like that but a constant reminder of their sins...
it’ll be interesting when it all goes off though, given how the Police have been treated by the Tory’s over recent years, including being lectured by headmistress May.
A point I have also made a couple of times. The police used to be Tory through and through and would always go the extra mile for leaders like Thatcher who, whatever you think of her, would back them to the hilt. Obviously this spilled over badly as the police took her protection for granted and excesses ensued.
May screwed them over as Home Secretary and PM and now they absolutely despise her. I’d expect plenty of comments from officers along the lines of “there’s only so much we can do when we’ve been cut by ‘x’ percent over the last five years”.
Serves the Tories right. The party of law and order has become the party of private enterprise ducking its responsibility and imposing austerity as they can’t risk upsetting their rich mates. Private enterprise will probably also end up being touted as part of the solution, until everyone remembers what happens every time the likes of G4S gets involved. Chaos, followed by a bailout from the army or whoever and no financial penalties.
It would be immensely satisfying to watch if I didn’t have to live here.
Can you account for all your movements over the last 5 years?
Yep, I can prove I have worked where I work and received a monthly income for it, paid taxes etc,.
So can my wife who works for NHS but is Belgian.
Again, the government are fully aware of this as they can see she has worked for NHS, received monthly pay, paid taxes, NI etc,.
Yep, I can prove I have worked where I work and received a monthly income for it, paid taxes etc,.
Cool, but that's not what's asked on the current application forms. They want to know all your travels, not just the bare bones of your employment history.
And what if your wife had done some sabbatical work back in Belgium, or if your child had attended a year abroad at a Belgian university, or any number of other activities that we all did without a thought when we took freedom of movement for granted.
klerley - has your wife been out of the uk in the last 5 years? If so she will not be eligible for the proposed scheme as she does not have 5 years continuous residence - and yes a weeks holiday counts
Paying taxes etc is not enough. Hostile environment remember? People have been deported because they could not show 5 years continuous residence having been out of the UK on holiday or for other reasons - IIRC one went to jamaca to look aftr a sick parent for a few weeks and thus lost her right to remain
also they will still be treated as less than UK citizens with less rights.
And you’ve the likes of Boris Johnson helping foster a tolerant and inclusive attitude to immigrants.
I truly despair as to where we’re headed as a country since this ****ing catastrophe. We seem to be regressing by the day, undoing decades of hard-won progress
The idiots are winning. For now. I think it’s going to look like a very hollow victory, come March. Well... it’ll be looking pretty grim for most of us. The people who instigated this shitshow will somehow, as always, come out smelling of roses, a la banking crisis
anyone heard from Dave lately?
klerley – has your wife been out of the uk in the last 5 years? If so she will not be eligible for the proposed scheme as she does not have 5 years continuous residence – and yes a weeks holiday counts
Rubbish, of course you can go on holiday while still having continuous PAYE. Where does it state that if you have gone on holiday then you cannot apply/the application will be rejected ?
Home office rules. 5 years continuous residency means 5 years in the country without leaving it at all for any reason. Paying tax here for 5 years does not equal 5 years continuous residency. Of course this could be changed - its a rule that has been used to get rid of brown people. read up on the windrush scandal to see how the home office apply the rules
Actually a weeks holiday is probably OK ( but the legislation has not been done yet) - 90 days in 5 years I think is the limit for current non eu citizens but people have found themselves unable to prove residency and deported - one case a nurse who had worked in the NHS for 40 years was deported.
kerley, it doesn't have to be stated anywhere, it's at the whim of an official who has the power to make their own decision. I know someone who actually has permanent residency but who has no legal entitlement to keep it if an official decides to take it away due to their temporary absence from the country. So far they have slipped under the radar, but that family could easily be split up due to brexit as there may then be literally no country where they all have automatic entitlement to reside. Of course, it may get sorted out, but I wouldn't want to have to bet my family life on it.
Paying tax here for 5 years does not equal 5 years continuous residency. Of course this could be changed – its a rule that has been used to get rid of brown people. read up on the windrush scandal to see how the home office apply the rules
Paying tax through PAYE and having continuous employment clearly shows you have bene here for 5 years. I am well aware of the wind rush scandal thanks but sounds like you are being over sceptical on this one (understandably) but overly sceptical nonetheless.
A single day out of the country has suddenly become 90 and you don't think having evidence of working and PAYE for 5 years would be enough. It obviously won't be as easy for the cash in hand or immigrants working in the shadow economy but then probably shouldn't be as easy in those scenarios.
PAYE for 5 years is not enough with the current arrangements. Its deliberately made difficult and complex
of course being married to a UK national she will be OK
Rubbish, of course you can go on holiday while still having continuous PAYE. Where does it state that if you have gone on holiday then you cannot apply/the application will be rejected ?
Yep... this is how it is done elsewhere. My visas to OZ and USA could both reclaim time out of the country even though I was still paying taxes. This time did not count towards residence timings. For tax you do not need to be resident for the whole year or in fact any of it.
there will be a description as you must have 5 years continuous residence. This may require 5 years in the country so with holidays etc you may have been in the country for 6 years.
last visa I applied for I needed to provide all flight/ferry numbers for 10years which was a challenge....
I would add the last visa was for Israel so by no means a normal process
This will be a new process most likely designed to make it hard for people who spend 6 months out of the country from getting residency.
this will in turn make it pointlessly difficult for normal people
UK national can't bring in spouse without achieving some income standard surely? Which may lead to a dislocation of several months even for well qualified people currently living abroad.
of course being married to a UK national she will be OK
What makes you think that?
It’s a no win situation.
Option 1: well defined requirements stringently applied - separation of some families/communities- tabloids blast heartless government
Option 2: poorly defined system (or amnesty) with rush a block approvals due to limited resources - people cheat system, criminals etc get in - tabloids blast incompetent government letting in paedos, terrorists blah blah.
or if they really go for it they may be able to do both
there are of course many options but in my mind none of them are swift, efficient and in time for march next year in my mind
Do this lot look like they’re capable of putting anything in place by March that won’t result in total chaos?
On this and so so many other issues
This is fun (yes I know it is yet another poll) but Gove, Moggster and BoJo's constituencies appear now to support remain... No doubt they will be representing the 'will of the people' shortly 🙂
https://news.sky.com/story/100-seats-switch-to-support-uk-staying-in-eu-poll-11471078
