The Gammons are going apeshit. My local mp is making muttering of betrayal and talking about opposing it.
My local mp is making muttering of betrayal and talking about opposing it.
It would be funny as hell if, by opposing the deal, arch Brexiteers ended up voting with the remainers in opposing the deal and it ended up stopping Brexit.
Well he's not the sharpest tool in the box so entirely possible.
What are you reading that suggests this? I’ve only seen the statement.
The four freedoms are goods, services, capital and people
With this deal the Tories have proposed they're at best removing people from that list, although I see today may has not ruled out a special deal for EU citizens...
Either way, last nights "deal" definitely removed people and in all likelihood services. It's farcical at best and down right stupidity at worst.
The EU must reject it
My local mp is making muttering of betrayal and talking about opposing it.
If the last two years have taught us anything, it's that MPs who mutter about things don't actually act, even when they actually say they will take a stand, they don't.
The phrase 'talk is cheap' has never been more true.
This NOT soft Brexit!
Seems a bit floppy to me.
Boris just can’t help himself, she has put her cards on the table let’s see what the swivel eyed loons come up with.
What are are the odds on Europe saying “don’t be silly”
I thought that our democratically elected leaders had made a decision ,the papers were signed and off we go.
As we have been told so often it was time to all unite behind May and crack on with Brexit.
Apparently not!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs/the_papers
Seems a bit floppy to me.
Talking off Russia, seems evidence of their collusion in supporting the brexit campaign is growing.
Of course our proud patriots seem happy to ignore the fact they are Russian stooges.
Just watched Gove on Marr and its fairly obvious that he and all the other brexiteers dont have the courage of their convictions.
Surely if May doesn't fire BJ now then any shred of authority she had, which admittedly was almost none, will be gone and she really will be finished?
Or, like the worst Carry On film ever, will she keep going?
Boris wants to be PM that's his only objective. She wont sack him as it gives him a free run at challenging her.
Containment.
She’s finished , she might as well have some fun before she goes.
Sack em all.
collusion
Could you define collusion and tell us what is wrong/illegal about it please?
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy in order to deceive others - collusion
It seems this thread and the country in general are obsessed with Tory internal politics. None of that matters now. We are on a direct path to a no deal Brexit.
When this comes to pass, there are facets of the EU who will be so monumentally angry at the U.K. Governmet for allowing it (by their inability to present a credible alternative) they will be poisoned against us for a generation.
Once the country realises what a disaster Brexit has been and starts asking for the damage to be repaired, we will be powerless to do anything about it.
As i have said before the people who voted for this debacle need to feel the pain, i accept that others who didnt vote for it will suffer but there needs to be a big reset.
Just watched Gove on Marr and its fairly obvious that he and all the other brexiteers dont have the courage of their convictions.
Gove and Johnston are not conviction politicians, opportunists & bandwagoneering shits the pair of 'em (Boris scarpered to the other side of the world when his convictions were tested ****ing spineless coward). They saw brexit as a backdoor into no 10 and **** the consequences.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1015930389934886913
Looks like the adults are really losing control now and starting a leadership campaign.
Could you define collusion and tell us what is wrong/illegal about it please?
Can you explain why you are not concerned about the motives of a foreign power that has chosen to interfere with votes? Wouldn't it be better if they had been open about it?
On R5 this morning John redwood was calmly explaining how trade would just work on a no deal brexit because well it would and he would know.
Another fantasist still thought there would be cash left over for the nhs. No details no total costs etc.
Anyway cash isn't a problem they just found 5 million to police trumps visit.
Just as well they spent all that time making sure all the cabinet agreed on the deal though isn't it.
Can you explain why you are not concerned about the motives of a foreign power that has chosen to interfere with votes? Wouldn’t it be better if they had been open about it?
If you go back, you’ll see that rather than saying I wasn’t concerned about it, I actually asked for a definition of “collusion” and what was wrong/illegal about it.
However, it’s interesting that we do indeed now have proven example of a foreign government interfering in the Brexit vote, isn’t it?
The fact that this was at the request of the leader of the remain campaign, the Prime Minister, was denied at the time, therefore quite clearly fitting the definition above of:
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy in order to deceive others – collusion
I presume that your ‘concern’ means that you will openly criticise this “collusion” and demand criminal charges are brought against those responsible?
So the UK government asked somebody to say something, right. I think we are all good with that. What did the Russian government want, how much did they pay, who did they pay it to and what was asked in return.
So the UK government asked somebody to say something, right.
No, they asked <span style="text-decoration: underline;">a foreign government</span> to say it, and kept it secret.
the fact that the remain campaign and US government weren’t open about it being at Cameron’s request means you are hoist on your own petard over any Russian collusion accusations.
means you are hoist on your own petard over any Russian collusion accusations.
Id like to see true legal precedent there you know just in case it ends up in court.
Now that it's out in the open want to know what the Russians wanted or are you happy being putins little play thing?
the fact that the remain campaign and US government weren’t open about it being at Cameron’s request means you are hoist on your own petard over any Russian collusion accusations.
Spot on. Asking another country's leader to make a statement is totally the same as another country's leader pumping money into a campaign and manipulating the electorate.
manipulating the electorate.
Spoken like a true sore loser. You were more than happy to accept dirty tricks as long as you won, it’s only when you lost that you cried foul.
I'm not happy to accept "dirty tricks" on either side of the campaign. But you just keep on making shit up if it makes you feel better.
I guess he really doesn't want to know what was going on then
Er… I for one knew that Obama had spoken about Brexit… it was on the TV and everything… there was even someone called Trump talking a very different line… views expressed… in public… we could all form our own view on their motives. Not quite the same as the behind the scenes fun Putin has been having at our expense… I have no problem with Putin expressing a view on Brexit, any more than the leaders of Japan, Canada, our EU allies, etc… that is not what needs investigating… is it.
Anyway… it's worth looking back at this bit of Project Fear… and compare it to how things are shaping up for us now…
And, I stopped regulary reading the Guardian around the time of the election before last… but someone else pointed me towards this choice quote about the Brexit true believers inside government…
I for one knew that Obama had spoken about Brexit… it was on the TV and everything…
I wonder why why the government denied having asked him to intervene at the time then? If there was nothing nefarious about it then they could have told the truth.
the behind the scenes fun Putin has been having at our expense
I don’t remember you complaining when Corbyn and Gorgeous George were appearing on Russia Today, being paid to spout Russian agitprop over Libya and other Russian foreign policy objectives.
like Cougar, your road to Damascus conversion only appears to have happened once you discovered that the evil Russians were no longer backing your lofty liberal ideals. Not a peep from you over the decades when they were backing CND, the ANC, the IRA and all sorts of leftie goals
Agent Cob on Russia Today? Really?
being paid to spout Russian agitprop
Like what?
road to Damascus conversion
You know, it is possible to learn something and change position. You don't have to be sarcastic about it. It's generally a good thing to learn stuff.
the IRA and all sorts of leftie goals
What the **** does the IRA have to do with the left? Being on the left means wanting the government to help the people. If you think this means supporting terrorists then you have no idea about politics whatsoever and should stop talking about it.
Considering their very public opinions if there was a sudden change by Corbyn et al would this not be more newsworthy?
i thought George was just being widely ignored these days after people got bored with his I am anti whatever the establishment is pro today stance
Not a peep from you over the decades when they were backing CND, the ANC, the IRA and all sorts of leftie goals
Were you vocal on all those issues then??
It's telling how much you want to avoid any questions on the topic just how toxic you know it is.
Putin might be sad his team are out of the WC, but hes got the consolation prize of Trump & Brexit
hes the only person who'll be seeing a Brexit dividend, chuck a few million at Farrage, Banks etc, watch the UK shoot itself in the foot. (see also displacing syrians & helping exacerbate migrant crisis, as well as more open funding b& support of LePenn & AfD)
any MP is foolish to go on RT & legitimise them, on the left or right, was pretty surprising to see right-wing brexiteers such as Peter Bone & Owen Patterson chatting so happily with George Galloway on his Sputnik show in the run up to the referendum, RT were hugely pro Brexit, youd have thought thyed have twigged that it might not be in our nations interest.
Thats one of the weird things about all the right-wing brexies, its obvious that they are achieving Putins aims for him, even as he lobs chemical weapons about the UK freely, they still support the weakening of the EU & the UK.
What the **** does the IRA have to do with the left? Being on the left means wanting the government to help the people.
They're clearly running out of arguments when that pup rears its head. I'd be embarrassed for using that logic. Not even worth a response.
What the **** does the IRA have to do with the left?
It's ninfan, 99% of the planet is a bit lefty to him, Thatcher was just about a communist in his eyes
Okay ninfan, what sort of Brexit would you wish to see and how would you reconcile the northern irish border and the demands of businesses?
Blimey, some really desperate posts from Ninfan on this page!
It's the 5 stages isn't it- first you deny that there was any improper collusion, then you furiously accuse everyone else, then you try to convince everyone that actually it's completely normal and nothing to worry about. Still, it shows that pretty much nobody thinks there's any mileage left in denying it so that's something
Okay ninfan, what sort of Brexit would you wish to see and how would you reconcile the northern irish border and the demands of businesses?
Probably wants the UK to invade Ireland and reverse 1916-21. Yet, who's actions will probably lead to the Scottish independence 100 years after Irish Independence, and with it the end of the Union.