It seems that’s exactly how some are abusing the nice, easy, undocumented, EU free movement of workers rules:
That's not an EU problem, that's a corrupt employer problem. The same is true for non-EU migrants and British nationals.
Undocumented? It's well documented, ten seconds' Googling tells us that it's Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
Ninfan,
do you remember https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-25986388
Are gangmasters abusing workers an EU issue or a UK domestic issue?
I just want to choose who we let in.
I'd rather you didn't to be honest.
I am prepared to take the risk that some unsavoury characters may come here, as every member state within the EU has also done. I am prepared to take this risk as I strongly feel that economically and culturally, the UK is better for EU membership. Also travel of unsavoury characters works both ways. I hoped myself and my family would be free also to travel and work unhindered around Europe. Sadly under the current setup this is not to be.
Stats a few years ago said that 50% in immigration to the UK is from outside the EU. The split was approx 170,000 from outside and the same from inside the EU. It was interesting seeing Nigel Garage at the time shedding crocodile tears for Indian doctors who could not come to the UK because we were to busy allowing Eastern European hoodlums in.
Ah, so you don’t socialise with the proles then? How very middle class.
WTF are you on about? After several years stacking the shelves in Tesco I progressed a career as a site setting out engineer in opencast coal sites and civils projects. Try surveying a coal seam whilst up to the **** in mud in deepest darkest Ayrshire and say it's middle class. It put me in the labour market with guess who? Eastern Europeans, some of whom I have remained friends with. My wife lords it over the masses as a staff nurse. I have had enjoyable evenings socialising with her work colleagues. Guess where many of them are from?
My sister in law is originally from a farm in a poor area of rural France. Her family come across to visit with not a word of English. Her 90 something grandma carries little in her handbag but vegetables in the hope these will be useful in a crisis.
A Scottish based German friend works trying to permanently remove armaments from conflict zones in Africa.
These interactions, family ties and friendships have been built up over years with open borders with the EU. I will look more fondly upon this, than the fear, prejudice and scepticism displayed by those I deeply disagree with.
Firstly let’s be fair to ninfan. Supply and demand meant that one of the first things that happened to me after Brexit was an unexpected and relatively large pay rise.
But then I am unashamedly middle class and we have been depending on importing EU engineers for a bit in my industry as the Brits basically aren’t much cop. Not complaining either way. I was well paid now I’m better paid.
Now
yes, most are, I agree. Now why can’t we let them in and reject the ones who aren’t?
We could. Your problem was with Westminster not Brussels. Whether we can in the future remains to be seen. Supply and demand you know, we’ll have to take what we can get.
I just want to choose who we let in.
Great scot!
I'm just imagining ninfan as some sort of far-right Hogwarts sorting hat at border control, deciding the fate of immigrants based on a checklist from Katie Hopkins blog
Genuine Lol at that thought kimbers.
Sometimes (I mean now) I wish Hitler had not invaded Russia and instead invaded UK and settled with Russia and USA. We certainly wouldn’t be in this mess.
I’m just imagining ninfan as some sort of far-right Hogwarts sorting hat
I have a man-cold and couldn't breathe properly before I read that, thanks for almost killing me off.
It seems that’s exactly how some are abusing the nice, easy, undocumented, EU free movement of workers rules:
From my experience it's the tier 2's that are most easily exploited by nasty employers, eg Indian tier 2 migrants working for Indian firms that basically turn around and say - work 100 hours a week - if you tell the home office that you or your family members that you dragged along as dependants, who we employ are working less than minimum wage, you and your entire family can **** off back to India.
The way of solving that would be to allow people in who have enough points, without a job offer - or at least not make their tier 2 dependent on them keeping their original jobs.
But May doesn't actually really care about exploitative business practices.
The way of solving that would be to
Enforce the current laws properly
Enforce the current laws properly
That's like saying we shoukd enforce murder laws properly.
The home office can only act on good intelligence, that means people not being scared of being booted out the country for whistleblowing, not even the American agencies have the budget to monitor everyones overtime.
The home office can only act on good intelligence
There appears to be a chronic shortage of this at present
One of my Mum’s friends voted leave because she was sick of seeing Poles and Lithuanians with smart phones.
Honestly, that was her reason.
My Mum thinks she’s changed her mind now.
One of my friends is in the free-wheeling global Britain tribe (which is actually a fair enough reason compared to ‘I’m not racist but…’) The example he used was that we’re forced to buy all our bananas from former French colonies (what is it with Leavers and bananas).
I believe he is also swithering but I’m not sure. Between the Independence referendum, Brexit, and Israel we’ve come to an unspoken agreement to avoid politics for a while.
..........................................................
Wow!
and I expect most of you Remoaners will actually believe this nonsense 😂
... and repeat it at some point in the future🤪
My mum voted leave as her friend had a Nigerian nurse be nasty to her.
Mooman, feel free to call me a liar if it makes you feel better.
Wow!
and I expect most of you Remoaners will actually believe this nonsense
Wow. Did we all predict the troll would come back offering nothing to the discussion ...
At least Jamby pulled some numbers out of the air in his pro-brexit arguments..... so we could then pick them apart
speaking of which, I remember that even after the vote he thought that Cameron would ultimately be remembered well as a true democrat
Danny Dyer has shown that to be bollox too
Do you know Kath and Andy too? What did they tell you?
and I expect most of you Remoaners will actually believe this nonsense
So, to be clear - you're saying that people are making up these anecdotes?
I have an acquaintance who was referred for vascular surgery and refused because the doctor was Indian.
.....
I have an acquaintance who was referred for vascular surgery and refused because the doctor was Indian.
Now that's conviction beyond electrocuting your balls....
My nan voted leave, based on her only political input, LBC, the mail and the express.
When you get stuck in an echo chamber like that it's easy to see how people could be convinced unless you proactively seek out the experiences and opinions of others.
But she's in her 90's, so I can't be too harsh on her.
That said, she has recently changed her stance to that of 'I won't be around much longer so it's not really my place to dictate'.
I have an acquaintance who was referred for vascular surgery and refused because the doctor was Indian.
Yeah my nan used to be like that a bit, but now she's more concerned she can't see *any * qualified doctor without a longer than should really be nessesary wait, and rearranged appointments that she has to travel to rather than the local gp/surgery.
It's funny and frustrating how people change thier tune when they are directly affected.
but now she’s more concerned she can’t see *any * qualified doctor without a longer than should really be nessesary wait, and rearranged appointments that she has to travel to rather than the local gp/surgery.
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
That a good number of them are doctors and nurses, and that most of them contribute a lot more to society and the economy than the unpleasant filth that seems to pervade a lot of brexiteer circles
Not that it matters, because as you well know, a lot of migrants to the UK do not come from the EU
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
Well. Considering how many of them are doctors it looks like a massive screw up and underfunding exercise by the government, given most of the people who moved here pay tax and contribute to the economy. That and most are younger and healthier than the old people who are literally draining the NHS funds.
Come on.ninfan less project fear more explained rational explanations.
How many doctors would half a trillion quid buy?
That a good number of them are doctors and nurses,
Brilliant, so we’ve stolen all the doctors and nurses from developing countries who would really benefit from them, go us!
and that most of them contribute a lot more to society and the economy than the unpleasant filth that seems to pervade a lot of brexiteer circles
yeah, that’s right, you’ve successfully rubbed their noses in diversity, just like you promised you would. Well done. Good thing that this was without consequences and there was no backlash for you when it came to the Brexit vote or anything...
Best thing is you still think that calling people names and belittling them is goi g win people over to your point of view 🙂
yeah, that’s right, you’ve successfully rubbed their noses in diversity
Yep we all know you struggle with change and things that are a bit different from you, is there a term for it?
Amazing how many people grow up now not seeing colour or religion these days. It's a concept people try and teach them.
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
Most of whom are skilled, and the majority of whom pay tax?
I expect the government to use most of that money for additional planning, infrastructure and health/social resources.
Let us not forget it's the UK government that has failed here. It's not the EU, it's not immigrants, it's not even the working class racists, they just do as they are told, it's purposfull mismanagement to line the already overflowing wallets of the rich capitalist elite who don't pay tax and offshore everything.
Wake up.
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
I expect the extra tax we get from their economic activity to pay for more doctors to be trained and employed.
But that's not what the Tories like to do.
is there a term for it?
Yes, xenophobia. Let’s not sugar coat it.
Best thing is you still think that calling people names and belittling them is goi g win people over to your point of view
Oh no, I’m not trying to change your point of view. You appear to be a well know trollfrom what I can gather, so there wouldn’t really be much point.
Anyway we were told time and time again that the leave vote was nothing to do with immigration
May could have stopped non eu immigration if she was so worried about the numbers.
Amazing how many people grow up now not seeing colour or religion these days. It’s a concept people try and teach them.
Maybe you could concentrate your efforts on trying to teach the people who like planting bombs, blowing themselves up and shooting and stabbing people in the name of religion not to do it?
Anyway we were told time and time again that the leave vote was nothing to do with immigration
May could have stopped non eu immigration if she was so worried about the numbers.
Exactly, this situation was knowingly or unknowingly, the brain child of broken UK politics.
May could have stopped non eu immigration if she was so worried about the numbers.
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder? 😉
Ninfan you're talking complete rubbish as usual.
The UK has and does have the means to refuse entry in the UK if they are criminals, or have no means of supporting themselves and no return ticket. AKA not tourists or people with jobs or education to go to.
This is a UK government problem. It's the UK government that opened our borders, and they are now trying to blame.. Well anyone they can.
Have we issued a formal apology to all the black, brown, irish and gay people that this country use to blame for all it's problems since the war?
It was the European's fault all along.
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder?
Tommy Robinson.
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder?
Please at at least try to make some sense. Do you want immigration reduced or not? And if so, you you still also try to argue that Brexit had nothing to do with immigration?
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder?
Amazingly not everyone outside the eu is a different race.
And if so, you you still also try to argue that Brexit had nothing to do with immigration?
Do I what, what?
Where?
Brilliant, so we’ve stolen all the doctors and nurses from developing countries who would really benefit from them, go us!
The rest of the EU is in such a dire situation? Who knew?
Have we issued a formal apology to all the black, brown, irish and gay people that this country use to blame for all it’s problems since the war?
Alan Turing was gay, he was only recently pardoned for being gay, despite his very relevant war effort in code cracking.
That just goes to show the hypocrisy.