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the one leaver with half a brain cell (there must be one, surely)
To be fair, IME the vocal STW leavers appear to be generally of considerably higher intellect than the majority of leaver commenters on the rest of the Internet.
Generally.
if airbus leaves we should be building planes here
Oh, no. If Airbus leaves we won't be affected. See:
I am well impressed with your stamina to still be crying about the result.
We're well beyond that, we're just trying to evaluate the consequences of your ilk's pyrrhic victory.
Alright, I’ll rephrase: “...with two brain cells to rub together...” 😉
I get your point, but it really is Emperor’s New Clothes territory by now. Project fear is rapidly becoming project fact.
It's a price worth paying though, right? To get back all those things we already had and to take control of things we already control.
Time will tell.
Wait and see.
It could go to 5hit or it might be alright.
With quite a few job losses and more looming... although the low pound is helping exports, it isn’t helping investment.
Definitely uncertainty.
Definitely uncertainty.
And if its it’s one thing uncertainty brings it’s a strong economy, higher wages and low unemployment.
Oh, hang on, I’ve got that the wrong way round, haven’t I. Uncertainty kills those things.
Wait and see.
That's an incredibly bad idea IMHO.
It "might be alright" (though I'd bet one of my lesser-used internal organs that it won't be). But if it isn't and we've just gone "well, let's just wait and see" then it's too bloody late by then. If your house is on fire do you ring the fire brigade or do you watch it burn thinking "well, it might go out on its own"?
although the low pound is helping exports
Sounds great. Except, we're a net importer.
It’s pretty simple. If no deal was an option then the government (civil service side at least) would have already issued contracts for the it systems and major works. These takes years to come in.
what is happening now is just noise until a Norway style deal is made
It’s pretty simple.
It really isn't. And believing that it is is a big part of the problem. The day after the referendum there were leavers going "cool, does that mean we've left now, then?"
(And TBH if we'd just told them "yes" then we could probably have forgotten about the whole thing and everyone would be happy...)
So similar costs, similar restrictions, and even less control? Wow.
If no deal was an option then the government (civil service side at least) would have already issued contracts for the it systems and major works. These takes years to come in.
This is true, because the government and civil service has a long and proud history of managing IT and major works contracts with the kind of efficiency which is the envy of the developed world.
Assuming that there is no chance of falling off the cliff because this government hasn't started erecting a safety net at the bottom is putting waaay too much faith in our elected representatives.
There are some high profile figures who would like to see us splat onto the rocks below because they or their mates will make money scraping up the pieces.
They don't have that level of forethought......
Significant chunks of Airbus are owned by regional Governments in France and Germany (who previously vetoed the merger with BAES) and of course will relish the prospect of transferring jobs from from the UK using sweetener deals that carefully ignore state-aid. Meanwhile the UK Government who are so paralysed by Brexit will consider this acceptable collateral damage. They won't give a stuff that these are high-value jobs in manufacturing and engineering because they can be easily be replaced by 'service jobs' like a call-centre full of minimum-wage, zero-hours, part-time workers on Universal Credit that creates "full-employment".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44586638
Mind you 100's apparently turned up for the other one....
Once a “deal” is reached with the EU the rejection of this goes to a fall back option.
this will either be WTO or full membership.
Neither is acceptable to around 50% of the voters.
Also people may vote to spite each other or just get it over so full WTO might be more popular than you expect
Latest attendance figures I saw for the "meaningful vote" march were around 100,000.
Also people may vote to spite each other or just get it over so full WTO might be more popular than you expect
I'd hope somebody explains how that works before it's an option as there are a lot of misconceptions the first being that other people operate in that way.
Adding in the EU have to accept the deal in a democratic process does make it a complete lottery for the UK
I guess the point is that there is no middle ground that is acceptable to either side.
and to add....
WTO doesn't sort out Healthcare, movement of people, NHS Staffing, security, policing, law enforcement, borders, Northern Ireland and hundreds of other issues.
this will either be WTO or full membership.
Neither is acceptable to around 50% of the voters.
Whereas a 'soft brexit' isn't acceptable to around 100% of voters. This halfway-house option, whilst being the second-least damaging choice, pleases neither those who wish to remain nor those who wish to leave.
It's absolutely pointless, we end up with a deal (ideally) similar to what we have already only without any say in how the EU is run. We become rule-takers instead of rule-makers, we literally "take back control" by relinquishing the control we once had. It's farcical. The only options which have any point - for some value of - is to remain in or crash out.
Also, I may be wrong on this, but I don't think that we automatically qualify for WTO do we? It'd have to be agreed by the existing countries and there's over a hundred of them.
If anybody is going back to the madness of WTO and no deal then it needs to be explained to people, properly and impartially so that people are aware of exactly what it means to them and realistically how long it will take to get anywhere. Then you can gauge how many idiots the country has.
Latest attendance figures I saw for the “meaningful vote” march were around 100,000
I was up in town earlier - not for the march - but I saw the fringes of it and it was heaving. Traffic elsewhere was at a standstill. Couple of helicopters overhead.
So, the person at the front of the 'pro-Brexit' rally is wearing a Tommy Robinson / EDL tee-shirt - I can't think of a nicer bunch of people 😉
I can’t think of a nicer bunch of people
It truly was a missed chance to be selling shares in Unicorn farms and banana benders, while feeding them with magic beans.
WTO doesn’t sort out Healthcare, movement of people, NHS Staffing, security, policing, law enforcement, borders, Northern Ireland and hundreds of other issues.
I know many people who live in Europe and still voted leave.
the bulk of the country do not care about the issues you mention from what I can see online. They believe we can do anything we want or we can just take what we want.
One way to look at it is only 30% of the country voted to remain the rest either wanted to leave or presumably did not care enough either way to vote
the bulk of the country do not care about the issues you mention from what I can see online. They believe we can do anything we want or we can just take what we want.
Well now we are at the pointy end, if people don't care let the rest of us fix them.
The only reason they don't want to ask any question that could stop brexit is they know the answer
One way to look at it is only 30% of the country voted to remain the rest either wanted to leave or presumably did not care enough either way to vote
The other way to look at it is only 30% voted to leave and the rest either voted to stay or assumed that not that many mad people lived in the UK. Should the UK really be held to ransom by 30% of the population?
Should the UK really be held to ransom by 30% of the population?
Is is this not normally the way? A few people with strong or loud ideas drive something forward.
nothing has seemingly happened. People will only take notice once it starts to directly impact them which is of course too late.
I guess there is a Union for Airbus and BMW. Have they organised a march/protest against the government? They have been told they will be directly impacted but I have not seen and action.
30% voted to leave, 30% voted to remain - not enough to decide anything s should have just been a null vote.
Of course that would have had to be setup before the vote where the line for anything to happen would need to be over 50% of the population who are able to vote.
We’re ducked.
Wait and see. I’ll wait from abroad!
or presumably did not care enough either way to vote
You're overlooking those who couldn't vote for whatever reason.
Should the UK really be held to ransom by 30% of the population?
It's about 25% of the population. 17m out of 65m.
nothing has seemingly happened. People will only take notice once it starts to directly impact them which is of course too late.
Hence the government needs to take action now.
Stuff that has been seen so far...
Currency issues
NHS Shortages
A list of massive bills that are coming up
Impacts are being felt everywhere, people are up in arms all over the place, 100,000 in London right now, every time somebody asks serious questions about Brexit we get a heap of meaningless soundbites with no plan of action from those telling us to shut up and get on with it.
30% voted to leave, 30% voted to remain – not enough to decide anything
So presumably we shouldnt do either, right?
Well ninfan once you support taking the kids off parents you are probably close to cutting the baby in half.....
Come to give us some answers about how the UK moves forward with this? The brexiters seem to have gone all light on details recently (well for the last 10 years)
Come to give us some answers about how the UK moves forward with this?
Yeah, we leave the EU, as promised.
hope that helps.
I didn't actually vote in the referendum. I live abroad and had forgotten to renew my voter registration. TBH, I wasn't paying that much attention because the chance of it actually happening seemed so remote.
I feel quite stupid now. If there is another vote you can be absolutely certain all my paperwork will be in order.
I'll be voting remain, by the way.
So presumably we shouldnt do either, right?
I addressed this a thousand pages ago.
The result of the referendum showed that we are a country divided and there are a lot of people who are unhappy with the status quo for various reasons, some misguided or outright barking sure, but some potentially valid concerns too.
The correct course of action therefore should neither have been "throw the country under the bus" or "do nothing," but rather analyse why people are unhappy, acknowledge and address that, and attempt to bring about change. Immigration was a big issue, for instance; we can do something about that right now, we have additional powers at our disposal that we - that is to say, the UK government - choose not to implement. You can have your blue bloody passports too if you like, we don't need to leave the EU to do that either.
"Remain" shouldn't be the alternative to brexit, rather it should be "reform." Some people you'll never please and the more rabid brexiters won't be happy until we're living in Victoriana as the head of the Empire, but I believe that this is the solution most likely to appeal to most people on both sides of the debate.
hope that helps.
Not really, it's fairly meaningless and doesn't address any of the major issues.
Just heard from the marches.
The Free Tommy lot rounded off their day by attacking the police. Meanwhile, folk from the Meaningful Vote march are currently going round with bin bags picking up litter.
I know people who voted Leave to achieve exactly what Cougar is suggesting… they hoped a big enough Leave vote would shake up both our relationship with the rest of the EU, and our own system of government here… they wanted governments to put a hold on the UK further integrating within the EU, they wanted more opt outs, they wanted our government to make things more difficult for migrant workers… they wouldn't support "no deal" under any circumstances… some would still vote Leave to avoid further integration, and reduce migration… some are shocked at where we are currently heading, and consider their vote hijacked, and would vote against Leaving now.
Peaceful protest is all good and well but the most memorable demonstration of displeasure that actually resulted in a change was the poll tax riots. Mind you I don’t remember many protests after that until the second iraq mess but I would be happy to learn more.
as has been said if a million people marching did not stop Tony going to war what hope do a few thousand against the rabids...
I can't quite believe that I just read that.
The fact I can not remember protests really changing government policy?
there are only a few I can remember (or paid attention to) in recent years
poll tax
student fees protests
Iraq war
Only one brought down a government (a contributing factor plus an unpopular policy and the party also wanting change)... that being said I would not advocate violent protest but just standing in a square seems to do nothing.
Just an opinion and I would be more than happy to be proved wrong
This must be the only protest march that w€€k stain Corbin isn't all over like a cheap suit.
Wish I could have attended myself waving british passport with an EU flag sticker on it. Don't think it'll make one ounce of a difference sadly.