I'd like to give a personal 'shout-out', as I believe the kids say, to my sister, who works at the Co-Op in Sandbach. She is
a) working her arse off, doing crazy hours
b) dealing with absolute morons on a pretty much constant basis*
*examples being people trying to climb into the back of the delivery lorry while the staff are trying to unload it, people saying that they don't mind waiting in the queue to come into the shop as they're "just out for a look around cos they fancied get a change of scene from being at home", people buying another 8 tins of beans as they've "only got 18 tins at home" and many, many more.
On a more general note, there are loads of admin types who are absolutely swamped at the moment doing their very best to deal with the massive number of requests they're getting from Joe Public about all sorts of stuff. An example where I work is a particular team that normally gets 50 requests per month for the particular mortgage-related thing that they do. When the lockdown kicked off, they got 43,000 requests in three days.
@convert
Infectious dose is the concept I was referring to although I think people would recognise initial viral load. It's murky though, because studies of infectious dose (for SARS-CoV2) haven't been done, whereas people have correlated viral load (at the time of presenting to hospital) with poor outcomes (E.g. oxygen requirement, need for mechanical ventilation etc). Admittedly this is not an especially good predictor compared to other clinical variables like medical history, age, oxygen saturations, persistent fever etc and other lab tests.
[My sister] says that all the science she is working with and been briefed on [ ] indicates infectious dose will come out as pretty irrelevant for CV-19 with regard to either severity or infection rate.
I don't think that's correct. Unless your sister is in receipt of some top secret information, that sort of information is available online in journals. There is currently no evidence that infectious dose is related to disease severity but AFAIK no one has done that experiment (inoculating volunteers with varying amounts of SARS-CoV2 and seeing how sick they get). For influenza, infectious dose definitely is associated with more severe illness and there is some poor quality evidence from SARS (1) that it is as well. It would be surprising if SARS-CoV2 was substantially different but we have no proof either way. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (of an effect).
Of course, the big concern to many people is that healthcare workers are seen, anecdotally, to be disproportionately affected with disproportionately severe disease. Perhaps that is from high infectious dose or repeated contacts - we do not know.
PPE is obviously massively important for hospital and care workers dealing directly with infected patients but that is far more to to with their skillset being of finite supply
This makes it sound like you're concerned that it's merely our skills, not our lives, being lost.
There’s a covid thread somewhere on this forum Convert. Can we keep this one for WCA initial intention. 🤷🏻♂️
Well said Drac.
There’s a covid thread somewhere on this forum Convert. Can we keep this one for WCA initial intention.
True. Sorry - I only responded to responses to my response if that makes sense. Won't add more after this one....
Unless your sister is in receipt of some top secret information, that sort of information is available online in journals.
I don't think she's call it top secret but.....As you say though the science on this is still very young.
Of course, the big concern to many people is that healthcare workers are seen, anecdotally, to be disproportionately affected with disproportionately severe disease.
She'd argue that the genetic makeup of our healthcare professionals is disportionately biased to those that are more severely affected by this. The 'silk road' theory I posted on the other thread (where this should be!). That is now definitely looking like it is a thing.
This makes it sound like you’re concerned that it’s merely our skills, not our lives, being lost.
Sorry if that is how it comes across. But in times of national crisis your skills are incredibly vital. It is a thing, sorry. And I said 'out of action' by which I meant ill not dead. Some will tragically die but very fortunately like the population at large that will be a tiny minority.
I'll shut up now.
And add policeman to the list of those to be proud of. A very delicate line of helping us all to do the right thing; dealing with stressed and bored members of the public with a life of civil rights ingrained in us being challenged, using a combo of strong arm and good will. Tough gig.
[i]This is why I’ve found the NHS-fawning a little uncomfortable over the last few weeks.[/i]
That is how I have been feeling too. This is just a chance to say thanbk you and appreciate all of the other people.
Convert - your contribution and insight is welcome but possibly better on the other thread - thanks for posting though 🙂
I’m not sure why a lorry driver or farmer are doing anything they wouldn’t normally….
I would say lorry drivers (and farmers) are doing a pretty important job.
Watch this, they don't have an easy time at the moment keeping us all fed etc. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/newsbeat-52235125/truckers-we-re-being-treated-like-second-class-citizens
Medicines testing and release here, not going to be regarded as hero though.
if anything am lucky as it means I can come on to a secure site with no one on it, work in clean labs and it means I can get out of the house.
on balance not a hero just very appreciative of my job
All my colleagues across PHE working their bums off, a significant number since mid January 12/7+, some of those I know were pushing 90hr weeks in the initial phases when it kicked off in the UK, its not just those working on the COVID-19 response but also all those backfilling key roles to deliver our other key functions. So pleased our Medical Director stated it yesterday at the No10 brief. Clearly I can't and won't go into a jot of detail suffice to say I'm proud to work where I do and of all my team and others.
I kinda take exception to the idea that supermarket workers are second to the NHS. Yes they are dealing with the rancid public but are lucky enough to have cleaning crews and screens to help protect themselves.
Care home workers, whether nurses or carers, are being left to fend for themselves whilst the virus runs unchecked. No PPE to speak of and I wouldn't put money on any extra help. I have a friend who is near enough being told by her contract manager to turn down certain shifts because of the state everything is in.
Power station workers. Very busy for us.
Some of us at least, ours is currently dormant waiting for a licence instrument to start up. But let's not kid ourselves, we're hardly on the front line and it's easy enough to distance ourselves when at work. The overtime (if it comes) won't exactly sting either. I couldn't even begin to compare our situation with carers or NHS as above.
I'm classed as a key worker (banking). We get no love! Try operating your bank accounts without us. Not all of us crashed the economy and got paid billions for it last time.
1) Bin collection
2) Postman
Heroes? Literally just doing their normal job. Risk of catching it might be higher than staying locked indoors, but incremental compared to what careers and NHS staff have to deal with. The postie is great, but I'm not going to applaud him up and down the drive way.
I'm more disrupted having to work from home!
NHS = going to work with a not-enviable chance of catching it and subsequently dying = heroes.
Truck drivers having to live on M&S sandwiches because McDonalds is shut............. Take a camping stove? I wouldn't call it "heroic".
Monday is "advertising day" on the village Facebook group. All the Avon ladies, artisan Costco sweet repackagers, window cleaners, have self declared themselves essential key workers doing their best to keep the nations morale and mental health up during this difficult time.
Give me strength and a large B-Ark.
Heroes? Literally just doing their normal job.
Yeah, although this whole thing is making us realise which jobs we actually value. We like our post to be delivered and food on our tables.
I can't say I've missed the services of the advertising executives, hedge fund managers, marketing directors etc whose jobs have been furloughed. With apologies to the many hedge fund managers who scour the STW forums. There are probably loads of pointless jobs I've forgotten.
Give me strength and a large B-Ark.
OR maybe a virulent disease spread via telephones. . . Oh!
OR maybe a virulent disease spread via telephones. . . Oh!
The irony wasn't lost on me when I thought about it 🤣
I’m classed as a key worker (banking). We get no love! Try operating your bank accounts without us. Not all of us crashed the economy and got paid billions for it last time.
I'm in IT, in banking.
The last few weeks have been mental for us - some people don't realise the work involved to get several hundred (thousand) people working from home, and then supporting them afterwards.
Fair enough, it's not life or death - but without IT teams all over the country, no-one would be working from home.
I’m in IT, in banking.
The last few weeks have been mental for us – some people don’t realise the work involved to get several hundred (thousand) people working from home, and then supporting them afterwards.
Fair enough, it’s not life or death – but without IT teams all over the country, no-one would be working from home.
So true. The IT guys at our place played a blinder in getting everyone set to work from home in about a week. It went from unheard of for most of us to totally capable. We now run a skeleton crew at the office and can run an entire back with fewer than ten people in the building. Normally there are about 180 in the central office. We're a pretty small outfit though with no high street branches.
I kinda take exception to the idea that supermarket workers are second to the NHS. Yes they are dealing with the rancid public but are lucky enough to have cleaning crews and screens to help protect themselves.
Lucky you reckon? What about whilst stacking the shelves, with people reaching around them to get to stuff? Or passing close with their trolleys/baskets? What about whilst handling the cash that people still pay with? And the trolleys/baskets they've used? How many 'cleaning crews' do you see in your trips to the supermarket?
Just ask a simple question; we're all supposed to stay 2m away from each other, right? How many people do you think come within 2m of a supermarket worker per day?
Believe me, they do not feel 'lucky'.
Nowhere close to the risk that NHS front line face. Mostly, I'm just doing my normal day job of repairing electrical infrastructure. However, I do feel overly exposed when we have to work in populated areas and people don't seem to grasp social distancing or have any idea what 2m actually is.
Surely the answer to this is all the people who do jobs that the general public don't give a second thought to as they're mainly invisible jobs that they don't see. That is until that job doesn't get done then people know about the consequences.
The best example of this that I can think of is the people who unblock our sewers. They do it out of sight and with no fanfare. But if they don't and the sewers block up everyone knows about it from the stench.
So those people are the unsung heroes that don't work in healthcare.
Lucky you reckon? What about whilst stacking the shelves, with people reaching around them to get to stuff? Or passing close with their trolleys/baskets? What about whilst handling the cash that people still pay with? And the trolleys/baskets they’ve used? How many ‘cleaning crews’ do you see in your trips to the supermarket?
True, but in general that's dealing with the public at at least arms length, and the public aren't all ill.
Whereas someone in a hospital everyone you see is ill, and your handling them and their excretions, and staff are almost doomed to get it at some point and take their chances.
I suppose the risk depends on how long this goes on for. If it's a quick spike then the risk to supermarket workers is low and most won't get ill, but most hospital workers may well catch it. If it's a long drawn out peak then entropy pretty much means everyone in the supermarket gets it just like the Dr's but over a 6 month rather than 6 week period (assuming you cant get it twice).
I had this praise the farmers thing pop up on FB earlier with one of my mates bascially self fellating over being a farmer.
He literally does exactly the same as any other day for the entire of his career. Nothings changed, its not like he's suddenly busier, he sits in a John Deere on his own. Get a grip man.
Lucky you reckon? What about whilst stacking the shelves, with people reaching around them to get to stuff? Or passing close with their trolleys/baskets? What about whilst handling the cash that people still pay with? And the trolleys/baskets they’ve used? How many ‘cleaning crews’ do you see in your trips to the supermarket?
And the carers? I don't think you've said a single thing that negates my point. More public facing than I am for sure but by no means second to the NHS. Not even close.
He doesn't need to get a grip of he can self fellate. That is quite some talent.
True, but in general that’s dealing with the public at at least arms length, and the public aren’t all ill.
The whole point of social distancing is that we don't know who might be ill, and you may well catch it from being close to someone who's showing no symptoms yet. If being an arms length away was okay, we wouldn't have the policy in place, would we?
Clearly, someone working in a hospital is at the greatest risk, I never said otherwise. But I think people little comprehension of just how shit it is working in food retail at the moment.
No fighting about the pecking order please. This is an appreciation of other thread.
We all realise there are more people doing more things than we originally imagined.
This thread gives people the chance to mention them, not say who is more or less important
Love peace, bunny hugging hippy ship sweethearts 🙂
Just for the record, I never said anything about a pecking order, other than NHS (and I include care homes in that) being at the top.
franksinatra
Subscriber
He doesn’t need to get a grip of he can self fellate. That is quite some talent.
I know a farmers son who bragged he good rub one out before he reached the end of the plough field in his John Dere
anyway weve been undervaluing half of society for decades, Id love attitudes to change & say minimum wage to double?
Id also like to think, especially after the last few years of toxic xenophobia, that we'd start appreciating everyones contributions from wherever they come
especially on the news that the government is today flying plane loads of Romanians to pick our crops
The whole point of social distancing is that we don’t know who might be ill, and you may well catch it from being close to someone who’s showing no symptoms yet. If being an arms length away was okay, we wouldn’t have the policy in place, would we?
The whole point of the social distancing policy is that we are aiming to reduce the national personal contact by 75%. National. Nothing to do with protecting individuals. It is perfectly ok, indeed anticipated and expected, for some people to do next to no social distancing provided we have collectively reduced contact by 75%. This is a concept an awful lot of people are finding extraordinarily hard to understand.
Apologies, a nerve was struck as some of this is rather close to home.
I certainly don't feel like a hero, I'm doing the same thing I always do and don't expect any special recognition for it. I don't expect most folk keeping things ticking over would want that either, aside from a general appreciation overall. All IMO.
Apologies, a nerve was struck as some of this is rather close to home.
Fair play, me too. *offers virtual handshake*