aracer, maybe have look at what's in your bathroom?
Swap the Bovril for Radox or Imperial Leather, perhaps?
aracer, maybe have look at what's in your bathroom?Swap the Bovril for Radox or Imperial Leather, perhaps?
I think we have a candidate for post of the year here!!! One of the funniest things I've read on STW in a long, long time 🙂
[quote=anagallis_arvensis ]Without wishing to make it sound like its your fault aracer but it does sound like you could do with spending sometime around dogs with someone who knows what they are doing as you appear to have gone beyond unlucky.
Why on earth would I want to do that? Next door has a dog which is lovely, I'm quite happy for it to be around me though they will tend to call it away from other people anyway. Nothing at all I could have done about most of the cases as I didn't see the dog until it was on top of me - one of them I was on quite a steep climb so couldn't have slowed any more! As I said when I first mentioned the number of bites I had, the only thing I've done wrong is running or biking. About the only one where I could have stopped between seeing the dog and getting bitten was the interval running session, and for obvious reasons I wasn't about to interrupt my session when I assumed the owner would actually control the dog (again by the time it was on me and I realised the attack was going to happen it was too late).
Of course in all cases the dogs have been dangerously out of control, and in 3 of them the owners didn't appear to acknowledge their responsibility and actually blamed me, which is the bit which bothers me.
Excellent troll.
About the only one where I could have stopped between seeing the dog and getting bitten was the interval running session, and for obvious reasons I wasn't about to interrupt my session when I assumed the owner would actually control the dog (again by the time it was on me and I realised the attack was going to happen it was too late).
Maybe I grew up in a different time (the 80's) but we always learned not to run away from dogs as that would wind them up?
I keep coming back to the same thought that nobody gets bitten 5 times by 5 different dogs without doing something wrong themselves.
When you are out riding or running are you wearing a suit made from meat products or have pockets full of Dentastix? This could be where you are going wrong and the reason for all the biting.
[quote=andyrm ]I keep coming back to the same thought that nobody gets bitten 5 times by 5 different dogs without doing something wrong themselves.
Proximate cause?
Quoting back something at me is not answering or addressing the latest point raised. I stand by it. You must be doing something wrong to be "attacked" by 5 different dogs. The statistical odds of that happening would appear to be very low.
Even so, the issue of this whole thing being blown up out of all proportion also stands.
- Woman stupidly leaves bag unattended
- Puppy sniffs bag
- People act inappropriately and situation escalates
What do you think I'm doing "wrong" then to make me such a frequent victim?
I see you also still have a reading and comprehension failure, that or deliberately misrepresenting.
why on earth would I want to do that
Because dogs keep biting you
The statistical odds of that happening would appear to be very low.
Can I see your working please
200 000 ÷ however many people in the UK x 100 = not much
Failed hypothesis. Now try number of (runners + MTB riders) / dog bite incidents
I see you also still have a reading and comprehension failure, that or deliberately misrepresenting.
I'm not going to turn this into something personal but II see you have fallen into the same trap that I highlighted earlier - this attitude probably doesn't help in these or other situations. Try not to be so confrontational and look down on people just because they have another standpoint. As I posted before, with an attitude like that where you come across as thinking everyone is beneath you, it's no wonder situations escalate.
What do you think I'm doing "wrong" then to make me such a frequent victim?
Drawing on anecdotal evidence, you run/ride away, rather than stopping. This lets a dog think you want to play "chase". When dogs play chase with other dogs, they often give a little play nip. If you run away, you behave like a dog, so expect dog-like behaviour in return. Stop, stand calmly and let it come and sniff you, see you are not a dog or a threat to it's master and then move on. Simple.
I've been riding since 1992, have always gone through farmland, tracks, parks etc and have never been bitten by a dog. In fact of all the hundreds of riders I know only one has been - and she was only nipped by a collie on a farm when she took a wrong turn into the yard.
I can't help thinking that there's definitely something being done wrong, and first 2 things I think of are firstly the running away thing, and secondly hostility towards dog/owner which naturally drives the dog to defend it's master from what it interprets as an aggressor.
andyrm if I did that on my rides I'd never cycle anywhere. The Ridgeway near Swindon is packed with dog walkers at the weekend and you cannot stop for every single loose dog.
I was bitten in Savernacre forest by a dog that leapt out of the bushes and gnashed on my leg. I had no way of seeing it, stopping or "making myself not a threat". My Mum was badly bitten by a neighbour's Alsation that calmly walked up to her, put its paws on her chest and then bit her savagely on the arm. Sadly the dog was immediately destroyed as it had done this before. Mum did not know that. Walking on the Devon Coast path a huge Labrador bounded towards me whilst I was walking down a steep hill and leapt up pushing me to the floor, I sustained cuts and then vitriol from the owners who could not understand why I was so angry.
None of these situations fit your advice. Dogs can be unpredictable. Owners should be able to control them at a moments notice when others are around. Simple.
None of these situations fit your advice. Dogs can be unpredictable. Owners should be able to control them at a moments notice when others are around. Simple.
Does the first part not mean the second is impossible?
and are the people who keep getting bitten the ones who believe what you are saying should be the case.
Horses are unpredictable but people slow down for them and pass with great care
Failed hypothesis. Now try number of (runners + MTB riders) / dog bite incidents
smart arse fail, we'd need to know how many of the bites involved runners too if thats the number you want.
much less than 200 000/quite a lot x 100
It's not smart arse, it's basic maths I had assumed "dog bite incidents" to be related to the runners/cyclists.
Don't throw generalist stats about to describe a specific problem. Unless you are a politician that is. The point is runners/cyclists are probably much more at risk from dog bites than the general population, especially if you follow andyrm's logic.
And please don't dodge this, it applies to all animal owners dogs/horses/rats/snakes/parents.
"Owners should be able to control them at a moments notice when others are around. Simple."
Does the first part not mean the second is impossible?
and are the people who keep getting bitten the ones who believe what you are saying should be the case.
Horses are unpredictable but people slow down for them and pass with great care
That is just really daft.
If an owner can not control their dog verbally then it should be on a lead and muzzled if necessary.
Dogs are not horses. Ridiculous comparison.
Anyone got any statistics for how many runners have suffered horse bites?
Anyone got any statistics for how many runners have suffered horse bites?
African or European?
i've been biten by a few horses and kicked a few times, wasnt running though
Dogs are not horses. Ridiculous comparison.
clearly horses are not dogs but why is the comparison ridiculous both are pets people take out in public, both can be unpredictable and both bite and can cause serious injury.
Do you know anyone who exercises their horse "off the lead" in public?
At a most basic level:
Horse - Herbivorous animal with a predator reflex.
Dog - Carnivorous animal with a prey drive.
Well I've been along bridleways and footpaths through fields with horses that werent on leads.
The times I've been bitten (I can remember):
- running past a travellers encampment on a FP, didn't see dog until it came running out and sank its teeth into my leg. Bite drew blood.
- biking on Malvern Hills, dog running loose way ahead of people it was with bit me on the foot as I biked past. Put a hole in my shoe and bruising on my foot. Came back for a second go and got a kick. Apparently I should have stopped when I saw the dog.
- running interval session on Malvern Common, chased and bitten by puppy. Drew blood. Apparently it was my fault, not that of the dog or the owner as it was an untrained puppy and I should have stopped running.
- riding on tracks near Minehead, bitten by loose dog as I rode past. Drew blood. Owner actually very apologetic for a change and took in what I said about control of dog, given which I kept my calm and was polite to her.
- riding downhill on a different track near Minehead, loose slates making a lot of noise. Bitten by loose dog well away from owner, which came back at me for a second go ignoring her attempt at "control". Owner tells me it's all my fault for riding fast down the track, not having a bell etc. Oh and bite drew blood - as with all cases apart from the shoe, bite was onto bare skin.Clearly the common theme here is that I'm not actually being wary enough of the dogs!
POSTED 20 HOURS AGO #
Sounds like they were all easily avoidable, barring possibly the first.The clues as to how are in your moan above.
You could carry on being a tit and blame everyone else for your misfortune, but you're going to carry on being bitten. (hopefully)
"Well I've been along bridleways and footpaths through fields with horses that werent on leads."
Do you go through people's back gardens where they keep their dogs?
Not sure that is relevant, rather than asking a string of pointless questions why dont you just say what you would like me to post and I'll consider it. It will be quicker this way.
Is you can't see the relevance there is not much point really.
As above, horses and dogs behave very differently.
Not sure what point you are trying to make.
As above, horses and dogs behave very differently.
But if you are a dick to them, and they feel threatened I am sure they would all bite you.
The OP has a long history running over years (google aracer singletrackworld dogs to see) of being a dick to and around dogs which might be why he keeps getting bitten; remember there are two sides to every story and the OP has shown himself to be rabidly anti dog over years of posting so perhaps you should take everything he says with a bag of salt.
why dont you just say what you would like me to post
"I am making dumb statements because I'm
(a) too daft to realise,
(b) arguing for the sake of it,
I'm very sorry for being a prat."
Delete as appropriate.
care to explain what dumb statements I've made and put forward a reasoned argument yourself?
oh and dogs are omnivourous
Richc -
I'm not taking sides here, just reading the thread and unable to not respond to the comment above.
The point of the thread, with an aggravating title, was that dogs should be under control, should be trained by their owners, and people should take responsibility for their actions. That I do agree with.
nice editing, good work champ
No editing, either real or imaginary.
Here we go:
Dogs can be unpredictable. Owners should be able to control them at a moments notice when others are around.
Does the first part not mean the second is impossible?
No, depending on the nature of the animal, a dog can be under control off the lead, on a lead or with a harness and muzzle. In the last case I would still consider the dog to be not under control if the owner was physically unable to stop the animal from moving.
and are the people who keep getting bitten the ones who believe what you are saying should be the case.
I can't answer that for you, and yes I have been bitten by a dog that required hospital treatment.
Horses are unpredictable but people slow down for them and pass with great care
Horses are predictably unpredictable, they will generally react in a similar way when frightened.
both are pets people take out in public, both can be unpredictable and both bite and can cause serious injury.
Well I've been along bridleways and footpaths through fields with horses that werent on leads.
You have a right to access only, the rest of the field is not yours to wander about in if you like. It is not public. If the owner kept a vicious horse in a field with public access then that is unacceptable.
The horse(s) generally has enough space to not feel threatened.
Most people would not enter a smaller enclosed space with an uncontrolled horse in it.
More people would be willing to enter a small enclosed space (back garden for example) with an uncontrolled dog in it, depending on the animals behaviour.
oh and dogs are omnivourous
The distinction in diet is principally to illustrate the different instincts, obviously.
The distinction in diet is principally to illustrate the different instincts, obviously.
what distinction in diet, I imagined the editing didnt I?
predictably unpredictable.... thats great, keep going I need a laugh
However, if I left a bag laying about and a puppy disappeared into it head first I'd think it was hilarious. Because puppies are cute and I'm watching a baby with an unquenchable curiosity get into humorous scrapes. Were I to shoo it away, I'd do so with the same tone and attitude I'd use with a toddler. Gentle firm and in good humour.You might have done likewise. You might have yelled angrily and aggressively. And the answer to that pretty much decides who was being the tool in your case.
Totally disagree. People are tools if they're not as delighted as you to have a dog sniffing in their bag? Really?
Agree that there doesn't sound like any need to get properly angry in this case, although it's not clear anyway that that's what happened and it would depend on what's in the bag.
But this seems to be grounded in the assumption that there is no need for the owner to be on top of what their dog is doing, and responsibility for what happens when it goes where it's not wanted rests with the person on the receiving end. IME that's showing a total lack of consideration for other people- you don't get to decide what they should or shouldn't be bothered about, they do, and there should be more respect for that.
public bridleways are not public 😆
oh and dogs react in similar fairly predictable ways when threatened
what distinction in diet, I imagined the editing didnt I?
So you responded to that comment but are now claiming you did not see it.
predictably unpredictable.... thats great, keep going I need a laugh
Get a bunch of dogs and horses together, stand behind each one and wave your arms about.
Let me know how you get on with that.
You asked for a explanation, it's been given, and this is all you have got?
The point of the thread, with an aggravating title, was that dogs should be under control, should be trained by their owners, and people should take responsibility for their actions. That I do agree with.
I completely agree with that, as would any sane person.
what distinction in diet, I imagined the editing didnt I?
So you responded to that comment but are now claiming you did not see it.
You are priceless, I responded to a comment that you edited out and then you told me you havent edited anything, then you defend the removed comment and now you saying I made up the comment about editing or something, I'm lost but my day has brightened up a great deal since you arrived. 😆
The point of the thread, with an aggravating title, was that dogs should be under control, should be trained by their owners, and people should take responsibility for their actions. That I do agree with.I completely agree with that, as would any sane person.
this is beyond question
predictably unpredictable.... thats great, keep going I need a laugh
Get a bunch of dogs and horses together, stand behind each one and wave your arms about.
Let me know how you get on with that.
quality, if I can predict what might happen does that make me wrong or you wrong, I'm not sure any more.
You are priceless, I responded to a comment that you edited out and then you told me you havent edited anything, then you defend the removed comment and now you saying I made up the comment about editing or something, I'm lost but my day has brightened up a great deal since you arrived.
Nothing has been removed, three lines have been added, for clarity, as you seem to be on a wind up. Anyways..............nevermind...................
if I can predict what might happen does that make me wrong or you wrong, I'm not sure any more.
Your the one claiming dogs and horse should be treated the same. I'm sure that you're not sure.
Puppy sniffs unattended bag. 6 page bitchfest breaks out on the internet. The members of STW, I salute you. Job well done.
Your the one claiming dogs and horse should be treated the same. I'm sure that you're not sure.
did I, I honestly dont remember saying that, but I have been laughing a lot
ZZZzzzzzzzz..................ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........................ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
More to the point, why is my mugshot on page 1...eh...eh?
[quote=richc ]The OP has a long history running over years (google aracer singletrackworld dogs to see) of being a dick to and around dogs which might be why he keeps getting bitten; remember there are two sides to every story and the OP has shown himself to be rabidly anti dog over years of posting so perhaps you should take everything he says with a bag of salt.
So now the dog lovers are reduced to character assassination to make their point. How about you provide a single example of me being a dick to or around dogs (cycling or running past them minding my own business doesn't count), or of me being rabidly anti-dog. Alternatively a full retraction and apology will be fine.
Oh, and apology accepted for your previous claim - no I was not that person.
It is interesting that in the end the dog lovers on this thread have done a good job of proving the original point - that other people are expected to modify their behaviour to avoid incidents with dogs, when they'd rather just ignore them and be ignored by them.
Oh let's just do this one as well:
[quote=andyrm ]
I see you also still have a reading and comprehension failure, that or deliberately misrepresenting.
I'm not going to turn this into something personal but II see you have fallen into the same trap that I highlighted earlier - this attitude probably doesn't help in these or other situations. Try not to be so confrontational and look down on people just because they have another standpoint.
Another standpoint? I'm quite happy to accept that - what I will challenge is people who claim something which isn't true. Given
[quote=andyrm ]- Woman stupidly leaves bag unattended
- Puppy sniffs bag
- People act inappropriately and situation escalates
is a complete misrepresentation of the situation described in the OP (oh yes it's subtle, but there is a distinct difference between "sniff" and "investigate" for example) is that because you didn't read the OP properly, or because you're distorting things to suit your agenda?
Stop, stand calmly and let it come and sniff you, see you are not a dog or a threat to it's master and then move on. Simple.
Every time I encounter a dog whilst out running or biking? I'd probably better give up then, because I'm not going to get much done. Alternatively the owners could control their dogs so that I can run/bike and ignore them which is what I'd like to do.
I can't help thinking that there's definitely something being done wrong, and first 2 things I think of are firstly the running away thing, and secondly hostility towards dog/owner which naturally drives the dog to defend it's master from what it interprets as an aggressor.
I shall try to put this in as non-confrontational way as possible, but did you read my explanations of being bitten, and if not could you go back and re-read them? Because as I mentioned there is only one case where I was actually moving away from the dog before being bitten rather than it just approaching me, and in none of the cases was I anywhere near the owner, let alone being hostile towards them (by default I'm friendly to everybody).
I'm not sure why the dog owners are having such a hard time understanding that some dogs just bite, not given 200,000 bites a year. Regarding the stats, a-a's assertion is actually a fail for a different reason. Even if we assume everybody in the population has an equal chance of being bitten, my 5 bites are over 20 years, hence 4 million bites over that time. So approximately a 1 in 15 chance of being bitten in that period, a 1 in 225 chance of being bitten twice... 1 in 760,000 chance of being bitten 5 times. So I'm quite unusual, but given a population of 60 million there are probably hundreds who've been bitten that many times over that period.
[quote=anagallis_arvensis ]
The point of the thread, with an aggravating title, was that dogs should be under control, should be trained by their owners, and people should take responsibility for their actions. That I do agree with.
I completely agree with that, as would any sane person.
this is beyond question
So everybody actually agrees with the point that the owner of the dog in the OP was in the wrong? Phew.
Are you talking to yourself now?
I'm not sure if the response to the bag sniffing needed shouting from either party though.
Why is everyone spending so much time thinking of responses, most likely getting stressed and cross and generally stewing over all of this.
All of us never existed before we were born, we are at best alive for a insignificant passing of time, no more than a blink of an eye in the whole scheme of the universe, and then in a heartbeat we are gone...to an eternity of non existence along with the billions who were here before us for the same tiny dot of conscious existence. And this is how we feel best to spend this never to be retrieved moment that we have, by getting defensive, cross and stressed about who was in the wrong when a puppy sniffed a bag.
Quick! Call the police!
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there is a distinct difference between "sniff" and "investigate"
Define investigate then! It's a pretty ambiguous term in this context.
The point of the thread, with an aggravating title, was that dogs should be under control, should be trained by their owners, and people should take responsibility for their actions.
No it's not. It's that the dog owner in the OP seemed to think his dog could do whatever it liked without being disciplined by a third party.
This is not so. If a dog ran into my garden, or jumped up onto my kid or anythign else unwelcome with regards my property or dependents I'd say 'down boy, shoo' or similar.
This is a normal thing to do to dogs isn't it? So why was the owner upset?
'Down boy'?
That's just sexist.
The point of the thread, with an aggravating title, was that dogs should be under control, should be trained by their owners, and people should take responsibility for their actions.
No it's not. It's that the dog owner in the OP seemed to think his dog could do whatever it liked without being disciplined by a third party.
Seems pretty much the same to me
This is not so. If a dog ran into my garden, or jumped up onto my kid or anythign else unwelcome with regards my property or dependents I'd say 'down boy, shoo' or similar.This is a normal thing to do to dogs isn't it? So why was the owner upset?
No problem here. The owner is a muppet.
I had a similar situation.
Stopped to eat my lunch in a park recently.
Sat on the grass enjoying my sandwich when two dogs approached. The owner called them a number of times and neither dog paid any attention. I have been around dogs all my life and have owned a few, no problem, until the male of the pair went to cock it's leg on my backpack, which I was waiting for it to do.
It received a light but firm kick, at which point the owner started running towards me shouting. At this point i could not be bothered to explain what his dog owning responsibilities are and told him "If you don't **** off, I'm going to kick you too."
Really did spoil an otherwise very nice sandwich.
I AM IN THE RIGHT GOD DAMMIT EVEN WHEN IT SPOILS MY DAY, I AM IN THE RIGHT!!!!!
SSSSSSHHHhhhhhhhh................ZZZzzzz..................ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz....................
Maybe you could tells us some more stories about how tough you are, you seem to like that.
.