[Closed] energy foods??

Potatoes are good. They make you feel quite satiated. They've got minerals and vitamins and stuff. Eat potatoes. Especially with other stuff, which removes the current fashionable moan about the speed the carbs are absorbed.

Obvs better than chocolate as a carb source.

Its fashionable to hate on them.

Nothing wrong with a few carbs (provided you are still going to be in calorie deficit) although the more complex the better and potatoes would classify as that. As for Chocolate, even that needn't be excluded entirely although the darker the better in that regard.

Am I lacking carbs in my diet?

Oooh.. this old chestnut.

Here's what I've found out:

1) Some people are better at burning fat than others, and some people's bodies are set up to use more carbs than fat - type I/II muscle fibre ratio, which affects how you process carbs but also how you like to ride, which (probably more) affects what you are driven to eat.

2) You can train yourself to be better at burning fat by riding with lower carb stores. This can be very useful training tool if you are not naturally good at it. You can therefore lose weight by adapting to eat fewer carbs. This is called fasted riding but it also applies I think if you've generally not got enough carbs in your body.

3) However some people can only get so good at it, and will end up riding slowly when they try adapting. High intensity goes out of the window - depending on what high intensity means for you.

4) An alternative approach to losing weight is to eat the carbs and do the high intensity workout, because this boosts metabolism and your body uses more fuel to rebuild itself fitter.

As cyclists we can benefit from both the carb fuelled and carb starved approach - but this depends on your own body. You have to try the different approaches. You probably need to do both to some extent or other.

People tend to laugh at me for saying that people are different and respond differently, but I think it's obvious. You don't see Chris Froome doing 250m sprints at the velodrome or Jason Kenny on the TdF. And I doubt you could make them change places either. Their bodies are completely different, their events are, and their training is too. Then you have people like Wiggins who sit somewhere in between.

the more complex the better and potatoes would classify as that.

Potatoes have a very high GL, as does any 'white' carbs including rice. Even brown bread is quite high. If you want to stay low GI you want other root veg and beans.

I'm just programmed to survive on sugar when exercising and need to break the mental habit.

This suggests you have a higher ratio of type II muscle fibres which means you like working at high intensity or sprinting, and are good at metabolising carbs to do so. Base training for you, with restricted carbs or fasted!

Base training for you, with restricted carbs or fasted!

I like carbs and sprint training and can't stand being fasted. Your recommendation would seem to imply I should fasted train. Not a chance! We're all different.

In my experience, you can push through the dizziness you are feeling, and get used to riding without enough carbs/kcals in your system. Molgrips gives the theory behind this above.

Just keep at it any take it slow when you feel weak, after a while you'll not feel it for general riding, but would probably still crash if you try to do too much high intensity work. If you need to do intervals of more intensive rides, eat enough good food a few hours before.

All I would say when riding essentially fasted, you get super sensitive to high amounts of sugar. You'll suffer from a sugar crash much worse than if you had other fuels in you body... It's hard, but try and stay away from the chocolate.

This is what I experienced, may not be the same for you.

some (not chocolate) carb after riding would be useful, a banana should do the trick, it's as much about the timing as the type though lower GI carbs are better

sensible amounts of potatoes with meals with other veg are ok as the others have said

Good post by molgrips there. However I would add that unless you are specifically trying to train your body to burn fat more efficiently, should should consider a balanced diet approach with more complex carbs and protein seeing as you are trying to lose weight and exercise at the same time

You can train yourself to be better at burning fat by riding with lower carb stores. This can be very useful training tool if you are not naturally good at it. You can therefore lose weight by adapting to eat fewer carbs. This is called fasted riding but it also applies I think if you've generally not got enough carbs in your body.

this guy did 3 back to back marathons on zero calories!

https://blog.adafruit.com/2018/01/01/biohack-running-3-marathons-on-zero-calories/

Carbs are awesome, tasty, full of fuel and makes for interesting food. Just keep it in moderation and go for good dark chocolate.

From that link

My own interest was in being the first person to set a record for running multiple marathons using zero calories.

Thermodynamics fail.

However I would add that unless you are specifically trying to train your body to burn fat more efficiently

True, but it sounds like from his last sentence that he could do with it.

As a type II person myself, I found that doing proper base training was the main thing that helped with endurance. But then fasted riding really helped on top of that. The super low GI diet was also good at weight loss. But I plateaued on it, and then eating more carbs to increase the intensity promoted further weight loss. It's worth experimenting. I need a balance between the intensity I ride and the carbs I eat.

It's worth paying attention to fuel whilst riding. If I ride without taking on any carbs I get extremely hungry for the following few days. I think it is a good idea to fuel carbs around riding, and not at other times. So I drink 1/2 to 2/3 of the recommended strength of maltodextrin during riding, and then have maybe 50g of carb/protein mix after a ride. This needn't be expensive - lots of places on the internet ship maltodextrin in bulk for less than the equivalent food would cost.

If you are riding fasted, I'd suggest not having any food 4 hours before the ride (overnight is best) and then not taking on anything until the first 45 mins has elapsed. This is meant to get your fat metabolic pathways working. I've no idea if that's true or not but I certainly get a second wind by that point in the ride and I find myself drinking far less energy drink overall. If it's more than 3-4 hours riding fasted though I find I need to force myself to drink more than I want to or I'll start getting tired and cramp twinges.

If you want to lose weight I'd suggest:

1) High mileage of course - but steady speed, and one fasted ride a week. Preferably steady road, but you really need to work on the sustained steadiness - HR helps with this. My MTB rides have to be more intense due to the terrain available, but keep out of the red.

2) Very low GI (i.e. veg, beans, eggs, meat and cheese) for all your meals. Lots of veg, served creatively.

3) Whilst riding, the carb recommendations above.

4) Also a re-feed day where you can eat what you like once a week.

This works well for me, I just have trouble sticking to 1 and 2!

OR

You could hit the weights instead. That's a whole other thread.

Lots of ways to lose weight!

I think your first point is really important, I’m assuming you’re recommending a traditional base build phase doing lots and lots of low intensity mileage. That does work for some people but you need to put in a ton of time to achieve it.

If OP wants to build ftp, or is simply time crunched and want to build fitness, hes going to need to be doing more intensive rides over a lower time frame which is not going to lend itself to fasting.

I think it helps to have an understanding of how well you perform without fuel, personally I do fairly intense 90-120 min fasted rides on the turbo on the weekend. Hard enough to deplete my glycogen stores but not long enough that I’m really going to screw myself up.

thanks guys, my mate says i'm actually doing too much.

This was my weekend: all recorded on my fitbit Ionic
9am Sat 5Km Parkrun 790 cals
11am Swim at 11am 505 cals
2-4 pm Inline skating 1,109 cals

Sunday
1.5Km swim 497 Cals
2-4pm inline skating 1,203 cals

Then Monday night I have Badminton for an hour
Tuesday Night Badminton for 1.5 hours
Wed night 3 hours of inline skating
Thursday same as Wed
Friday off to pub

I drink about 3 pints of beer a week, no bread, no pasta but shit loads of chocolate.

But i'm still 18 stone but fairly fit.

Hmm yes but for me, doing higher intensity led to depleted carb stores which leads to vastly increased appetite for carbs and/or the weak feeling that the OP is describing. Having better base will help him ride better in his fat burning zone and then consequently keep the eating under control when not riding.

You're right about base needing a lot of time, and this may not be what he wants. But I think eating is driven by what riding he is doing, and if that's higher intensity it might be driving his urge for sugary junk. But then, if he's not taking carbs whilst riding, starting doing so might help. It really does for me.

my mate says i'm actually doing too much.

That's a lot of high intensity. If you want to keep doing that I'd suggest carbs around the exercise as I said, and keep the GI elsewhere as low as possible. And MTFU about the chocolate, that does no-one any favours.

no bread, no pasta

What do you actually eat then besides chocolate?

I'd say you'd benefit from adding some resistance training to that lot.

It's good to lift!

When I lost a load of weight, I swapped white potatoes for sweet potatoes - a permanent change as it happens, as I actually prefer the taste (still use proper pots for a roastie, obvs) and junk chocolate for very (80-90%) dark choc which I also prefer the taste of now & is not terrible for you in moderation

It's like Apple vs Windows/Android....but for food.

I don't know if you're doing too much, but you're certainly doing plenty !

when you say 'loads' of chocolate, how much really ? What else are you eating ? What's breakfast, lunch etc usually.

It's like Apple vs Windows/Android....but for food.

10 Things You Won't Believe About What The Latest Version Of Potatoes Can Do For Your Diet!

Sorry, crossthreading a bit there.

when you say 'loads' of chocolate, how much really ? What else are you eating ? What's breakfast, lunch etc usually.

4 or 5 bars of chocolate such as double decker etc.

For lunch often have a sandwich from sainsburys. I only drink coke zero which i just can't stop drinking that either.

when i cook a main meal it's normally either a chicken breast with a plate of veg or something like chilli made to slimming world/hairy Bikers less than 500 calories specs.

couple of kebabs a week and a steak and chips on a friday night with a few beers.

if I cut the chocolate out i'd probably lose 6,000 calories a week alone, but when I do is when I feel like i'm about to bonk.

I've stopped cycling as i'm trying more low resistance stuff like swimming and walking because I can do them and not feel the need to sugar up

All that sugar is just creating massive peaks and troughs in your blood sugar so no wonder you crash.

The simple answer is to eat better, more slow release energy foods and cut out all that sugar. It’s not helping, actually it’s the source of your feelings of low energy

4 or 5 bars of chocolate such as double decker etc.

What, a day?

Put those down!

if I cut the chocolate out i'd probably lose 6,000 calories a week alone, but when I do is when I feel like i'm about to bonk.

What you are doing is trying to eat low calorie low carb meals, then hammering your body's glycogen stores. Your body then says shit, you need carbs, and this makes you want chocolate.

Try the energy drink during (or most likely after) exercise. People will criticise that idea, but the point is that it's taste neutral so you can very easily control how much you have. Chocolate and even potatoes are delicious, so that fact alone makes you want to eat more.

I'm confused. You say:

At the moment i'm mainly eating meat and veg, no bread, no potatoes and no pasta.

but then:

couple of kebabs a week and a steak and chips on a friday night with a few beers

So three nights out of seven you actually are still eating bread or potatoes.

and

For lunch often have a sandwich from sainsburys

That coke zero isn't good for you, either!

You need to introduce some consistency into your eating, perhaps with some help from something like Joe Wicks or Dr Chaterjee or something similar. Your diet seems a bit too haphazard at the moment for it to be successful.

Sandwiches, kebabs, chips, chocolate and coke zero on a regular basis don't really smack of a healthy diet to me.

4 or 5 bars of chocolate such as double decker etc.

That’s 1500 calories a day. 1500!

I'm confused. You say:

At the moment i'm mainly eating meat and veg, no bread, no potatoes and no pasta.
but then:

couple of kebabs a week and a steak and chips on a friday night with a few beers
So three nights out of seven you actually are still eating bread or potatoes.

and

For lunch often have a sandwich from sainsburys
That coke zero isn't good for you, either!

You need to introduce some consistency into your eating, perhaps with some help from something like Joe Wicks or Dr Chaterjee or something similar. Your diet seems a bit too haphazard at the moment for it to be successful.

Sandwiches, kebabs, chips, chocolate and coke zero on a regular basis don't really smack of a healthy diet to me.

well now you put it like that 😆

As a starter for ten, try only eating food you’ve prepared yourself, from scratch. No fizzy drinks either!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/25/is-sugar-really-as-addictive-as-cocaine-scientists-row-over-effect-on-body-and-brain

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2016/jan/19/high-carb-or-high-fat-the-running-diet-debate

😯 at geordiemick00's diet, impressive eating there 😆

Maybe sign up to MFP and just start logging what you normally eat. Sounds like it might be quite an eye opener. Then start making small adjustments that take you where you want to go. Major diet overhauls are crap and don't work. Get informed. Do it gradually. Don't cut stuff out, swap stuff, make better choices.

6000kcal of chocolate a week!
That's the stuff of legends.

Think molgrips covered most things pretty well already.

For my 2p worth:
You're doing quite a lot of high intensity exercise, its worth fuelling with a sports drink for med/high intensity sessions over 1hr and a refuel (ideally a main meal) after.
As someone else suggested, use MFP to track your calorie intake/expenditure. Not going to say cut the chocolate completely, but maybe cut down to 1 bar a day and a square or 2 of dark chocolate for a treat.

When I’m shedding my yearly timber I always have a box of Almond or Coc orange Bounce Balls in the cupboard.

About 200 Cals each but they fill a gap and have a better GI than a choc bar.

get some proper advice fromn a dietician if you want advice. The nonsense on this thread is unbelievable especially the stuff about fat metabolism and so on. Do not listen to armchair "sports scientists" or "nutritionists"

there is one simple way to lose weight - run a calorie deficit. IE eat less move more. Its really that simple. How you get your calories is irrelevant (apart from fructose which the consensus is changing on)

2000 calories of lard or 2000 calories of lean meat are still 2000 calories and will have exactly the same effects on your weight

What you do after your exercise makes almost no difference, sports drinks are simply highly processed sugars and muck up your insulin response and are empty calories

What you need is a well balance diet with little refined sugar and low ( for the west) protein consumption and to run a calorie deficit

The nonsense on this thread is unbelievable especially the stuff about fat metabolism and so on.

I take it you're a qualified dietician then?

NOpe hence I recommend a proper dietician - but I do have qualifications and training in the area and enough knowledge to know much of what is stated on this thread is utter nonsense.

Link me to a proper peer reviewed paper that backs up the stuff I have called "ridiculous nonsense"

for example the 4:1 carbs to protein thing that has become a standard in sports for recovery drinks. I followed links from a company claiming this stuff works for recovery. the original research was actually done on malnourished elderly and these snake oil potions has been shown to have zero effect on healthy adults doing recreational sport

@tj I'm far from an expert, and i'm not about to spend an evening digesting entire scientific papers, but how about this one?

[url= https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12235033 ]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12235033[/url]

NOpe hence I recommend a proper dietician - but I do have qualifications and training in the area and enough knowledge to know much of what is stated on this thread is utter nonsense.

What can utterly self defeating statement. So you're not qualified however you're qualified enough to judge the advice of others. Well done

Interesting one fifeandy and not one I found when following the research last time I looked. looking at the full paper this stands out
" However, more recent studies have taken issue with the benefits of adding protein to a carbohydrate supplement (7, 15,27, 29, 30). Results from these studies suggested that the enhancement in muscle glycogen storage found in the study by Zawadzki et al. was simply due to a greater amount of calories provided during the CHO-Pro treatment compared with the carbohydrate treatment. Moreover, it was suggested that if adequate carbohydrates were provided, the addition of protein would have no beneficial effect on muscle glycogen recovery (15). It should be noted, however, that the carbohydrate supplement used by Zawadzki et al. had previously been shown to maximize muscle glycogen storage during recovery when provided immediately postexercise and at 2 h intervals thereafter (3, 12, 14). Thus it is possible that significant differences in experimental designs and supplement compositions could account for the lack of agreement among studies"

Jonnyboi

I know enough to read and analyse research papers and have a basic understanding of physiology. I know enough to ask the right questions and to sift the snake oil out

So much of what is stated on here as fact is utter nonsense to anyone with even a basic understanding. I have enough knowledge to know this when its stated a fact on here but is simply physiologically impossible without suspending thermodynamics

Really, which bits then. Because apart from an odd link or two that was refuted pretty much all of the posts were fairly informed.

Obviously as an unqualified individual who's read a few journals your opinion should trump all others.

Pretty much all of the advice is nonsense. what it is is the marketting guff from the comanies selling snake oil reguritated as fact.

You can train yourself to be better at burning fat by riding with lower carb stores.

Bullshine

So I drink 1/2 to 2/3 of the recommended strength of maltodextrin during riding, and then have maybe 50g of carb/protein mix after a ride.

Relying on malto dextrin - a mix of very highly refined sugars of dubious provenance - you don't even know what mix of sugars it is. all this does is kick your insulin response into a hiugh gear leading to sugar crashes. maltodextrin is simply sugar that does not taste sweet

jonnyboi - Member

All that sugar is just creating massive peaks and troughs in your blood sugar so no wonder you crash.

The simple answer is to eat better, more slow release energy foods and cut out all that sugar. It’s not helping, actually it’s the source of your feelings of low energy

this is correct - but maltodextrin does the same ie creates peaks and troughs or if you ingest it continuously just kicks your insulin response into high gear leading to a serious crash afterwards

For my 2p worth:
You're doing quite a lot of high intensity exercise, its worth fuelling with a sports drink for med/high intensity sessions over 1hr and a refuel (ideally a main meal) after.

sports drinks? Ie quick release sugar is not helpful

etc etc

I have given the correct dvise - go to a properly trained professional if you want proper advice. don't listen to the nonsense some folk on here regurgitated from marketing bumf

So you're not qualified however you're qualified enough to judge the advice of others. Well done

Not read the thread or the spat but one does not need to be a complete expert, though it will help, to analyse advice or opinions

@tj, a bit harder to search for papers on sports drinks as google results get contaminated will all kinds of media crap.

Pretty sure lucozade have a paper to support their 33% longer claim as they fought a false advertising case and won, and High5 have details of a study they performed in conjunction with a university.

But its one you can easily test out in a scientific study of 1, and pretty much anyone that races a bike will tell you the same.
Go try and ride flat out for 2hrs, almost 100% chance you'll run out of gas and power will drop off somewhere around the 90min mark.
Do it again and try to eat solid food and you'll get some combination of stomach cramps/puking/crapping
Do it again with an isotonic drink and you've got a good chance of hitting 2hrs if you've got the muscular endurance for it.

Article here with several papers referenced to support it.
[url= http://www.mysportscience.com/single-post/2015/05/14/Carb-mixes-and-benefits ]http://www.mysportscience.com/single-post/2015/05/14/Carb-mixes-and-benefits[/url]