[Closed] End free student loans in Scotland now

spongebob pictured earlier:

[img] [/img]

EDIT: I'm English

Great thread, really well done. 0/10

Anybody who contributes to this thread should state location before comment.

English - agree totally with OP

Free parking at scottish hospitals?

Free student loans?

Free Prescriptions?

That's a lot to get wrong in your initial rant mate.

Fail. Och aye a fail...

EDIT - I'm Scottish, I live in Scotland. None of the above actually take place.

how does it go ....

"you are a troll and i claim my 5 quid" ??

you aint never been to scotland then ? ninewells - 5 quid a day parking in the far out carparks , prescriptions are 7 quid odds - unless your terminal - ie my dad has to take tabs for the rest of his life to thin his blood etc he gets free prescriptions - i do not

free loans - not at all.

freee tuition fees yes - i agree with that BUT i think that it should be made alot harder to get into uni ! to many people just going for the craik

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7480481/Edinburgh-University-discriminating-against-students-from-southern-England.html ]raciscm?[/url]

have to wonder if they discriminate against the south/east asian students as well?

What free student loans? Isn't "free student loan" an oxymoron anyway? If it doesn't have to be paid back then surely it's a grant?

Prescriptions aren't free in Scotland.

Total public spending in Scotland is calculated by a specific formula and is related to spending in the rest of the UK. If that goes down then so does spending in Scotland. It might be divided differently but total spending still goes down.

You really will need to try harder than that.

I agree with trail_rat.

University fees should be free. But university places should be harder to obtain.

Before long it will be back to the bad old days when only the rich could afford to send their kids to uni.

[i]Prescriptions aren't free in Scotland. [/i]

Agree, but £4.00 in Scotland:

http://www.infoscotland.com/prescriptions/

And £7.20 in England:

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Prescriptioncosts.aspx

Why FFS is their a difference, we all pay the same rates of tax and NI!

So one of us is subsidising the other - as I don't know of anything that is Government related that is dearer in Scotland than England?

instead of making Scotland give them up, we should make the government give them to us too. The access rights would go down a treat! 🙂

I don't know of anything that is Government related that is dearer in Scotland than England?

I am guessing you may not have done the most comprehensive search possible?

There seem to be quite a lot of English students poncing around Scottish Universities too. And Welsh people parking in the free hospital car parks.

Tell you what - we'll bugger off and take Brown with us if you let us have all the oil money back ?

(thats about the level of how silly this all is, but kind of fun)

And, to sweeten the deal we will throw in Fred Goodwin. Offer you can't refuse, that.

It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. Who gives a flying **** if a prescription is £4 or £7? Car parking fees given here, average lifespan much shorter there.

How many free prescriptions could be given out with what is being squandered on 2 weeks of sport in 2012?

[i]I am guessing you may not have done the most comprehensive search possible? [/i]

cynic-al

I didn't say I'd searched, just that I didn't know - but happy to be corrected - is there anything?

My point is that just because you don't know something, doesn't make it's negative a fact.

You do the work!

What we need is a commercially focused wealth generating administration.

Because us ordinary folk are really are going to reap the rewards of all that wealth creation like we did last time round. 🙄

Things like subsidised care for the elderly who have to go into a care home.

Free car parking in hospitals.

Free prescriptions.

Quite the opposite. I would say that these should be UK wide.

Elderly people who [i]need[/i] to go into a care home should not have to worry about paying for it. Most will have paid into the system for many years. What is your solution? Dying rooms for the poor?

Charging for hospital car parking is an obsenity and there is no argument for it. There are measures that could be taken to ensure that people not using the hospital don't take the piss.

Free prescriptions? Can be argued for I suppose but some in society simply cannot afford to pay without making cutbacks in other areas. The question is where do you draw the line between can / can't afford?

There are other areas where cutbacks could be made but the high level of corruption / incompetance in goverment will ensure that these are never investigated.

Free car parking in hospitals.

Oh that's another one that's BS.

I get free prescriptions...but if I live anywhere in the UK - I'd still get free prescriptions...not all hospitals offer free parking...a few in Glasgow and Fife charge for parking (unless you are staff)...

I kind of agree with the sentiment but your facts are so far up your own @rse that it makes it hard to agree completely...rant attempt wasn't too shabby, but the actual content was utter mince...please try harder.

I haven't charged you for this advice - it's free as I offer my advice for free to anyone and everyone - it's non-taxable as I don't take any money for it...however if you are suggestion we abolish free everything I'll need your address so I can send my invoice to you.

"...and think of the good, decent, righteous English money that goes to subsidising those bloody scotch land access laws as well...blah, blah, blah..."

Some things are cheaper here because it is so terrible living here. Anyone considering it should think again. Have you looked at Wrexham?

Spongebob (and b r, and the rest) rather than complaining on a MTB forum about such grave injustice, shouldn't you be out campaigning to rid your green and pleasant land, England, of the foul, dependency-culture welfare addicts contained across the border in the north British holo-arctic.
After all, even if we Scots all vote for independence, nothing will happen until middle England decides its more sick of us than our oil..

These things do not increase any part of English taxation. Every year Scotland gets a smaller and smaller part of the UK tax take - thats how the Barnet formula works and the flow of money is from Scotland to England. Scotland has a fixed amount of money anyway. It just decides on the priorities. Scotland does not waste money of foundation hospitals and city academies for a start off.

I actually disagree with the free personal care for people in Nursing Homes- it only benefits the children of middle claws parents - it make no difference to the old folk

Edit - the hospitals that are not PFI funded have moved to free parking.

[i]These things do not increase any part of English taxation. Every year Scotland gets a smaller and smaller part of the UK tax take[/i]

And when it gets to 100% we'll be happy!

[i]and the flow of money is from Scotland to England[/i]

WTF do you get that from?

Aye, more seriously, I'll repeat the fact that the Scottish parliament, that decides these things, chooses its priorities in a more democratic locally focussed way.
If there was the will, the regions of England could have had their own parliaments, which could have also decided such things, but you lot seem to prefer Westminister...
(BTW, according to a report in the paper today, 41 % of students at Edinburgh are from England)

WTF do you get that from?

Tax revenue on oil gets booked in London. Even if you only pro-rata it over the uk then the Scottish deficit is lower than the rest of the UK (this being from official government figures).

Thinly veiled racism covered by a rant regarding "you've got something i've not got, waah"

1. Free parking in hospitals - why shouldn't that be the case exactly?
2. Free Student Loans - think you need to educate yourself on the word "free"
3. Free prescriptions - yes this will be happening but at the moment the flat rate is £4.00, now the argument i would throw back would be why should people have to pay for human rights such as health (because the pharma companies make a profit on people dying

Can't help but notice that you failed to mention other parts of the UK and the benefits that they receive (go Wiki it, i'll wait)

Spongebob, next time you want to moan about something leave the racism out of it. If you are so against Scotland and what it gets over England then you'll quite happily stay away and not grace our trails.

Scottish, proud

As steve says If you add all the oil revenue to the tax revenue raised in scotland and subtract the amount of tax money spent in Scotland you find that there is a net contribution to the UK from Scotland. There are many ways to add these figures up but the overall effect is Scotland is a net contributor. Scotland exports electricity to England as well.

Obviously if Scotland decides to throw its money at different things to the rest of the UK that's for Scotland to decide, as long as they can afford it (arguments about whether they receive a disproportionate amount of funding to begin with are a separate thing). And I thought the reason most hospitals give for charing for parking is so that the car parks aren't full all day preventing people getting in (good old 'demand management' again).

However:

according to a report in the paper today, 41 % of students at Edinburgh are from England

The point here is that the English students at Scottish universities are paying more for their tuition than their Scottish classmates.

Agree with others - university should be free for anyone clever enough to go there - the current mania for sending everyone there if they can afford it even if they are as thick as mince is nuts.

Scotland exports electricity to England as well.

And politicians...

Sorry porterclough, I had actually assumed that the source of the OPs resentment was stories today about English students being alledgedly selected against. Didn't realise it was just a general day-to-day prejudice.
Again though, Rather than bitching about us, shouldn't he be trying to get his government to do the same? (top tip; you can save a bit of money for education by not getting involved in American oil-wars)

Typical bitter Pommy rant.

Sees that there is a place to live in this island with better conditions, so instead of agitating for improvement in his area, he wants the better conditions destroyed.

Sad, sad mentality.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1292
see chart at bottom

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285
read the last para

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=407
read the rhs of the graph

And that is supposed to say what? Private sector earnings will be higher to reflect the higher number of skilled workers. if you compare like for like public sector workers are paid less. That is skewed by the large % of manual workers in the private sector. Yo don't get many graduate entry only skilled roles in the private sector paying less than average earnings - common in the public sector - nurse for example.

No chance of getting you to change your opinion, Spongebob?
One thing's for sure, your paranoid theory about Brown being able to bail out back to here once he's 'ruined Britain/England' is a pile of mince. Most Scots recognise Brown for what he is; a transatlanticist, one-nation tory (who really means his Britishness BTW!)
He'd be about as welcome in the Scottish parliament as Ebola.

In its annual survey of the Scottish economy, the Executive said the government spent £45.3 billion in 2003-4, putting Scotland in a rare club of countries where state spending is more than half of the entire economy.

But only £34 billion was generated in tax. This leaves an £11.3 billion gap, which has to be filled by tax collected in England, as Wales and Northern Ireland are also heavily subsidised.

The figures do not include North Sea oil and gas; but the study shows that even if Scotland had collected every penny of tax raised offshore, it would still have required a £7 billion subsidy from England.

[url= http://news.scotsman.com/governmentspending/Political-row-brews-as-Scottish.2686652.jp ]Source[/url]

I think the thing that really makes me wish for Scottish Independence is the idea that as soon as things would be better for them outside of the Union ( let's face it, highly questionable ) they want out. Like all partnerships it's about give and take, sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down. That has to be a two way process and as they're clearly not interested then we're better off without them regardless of whose figures are right and whose are wrong.

The Scots may well get a better deal than their neighbours, but just look at who those neighbours are.

Scotsman living in England.

it would still have required a £7 billion subsidy from England.

This is a poor way to spin it. What it really means is that Scotland needs £7 billion on the cash borrowed by the UK as England doesn't have a spare £7 billion to give to Scotland. Given that the UK as a whole was expecting to borrow way more than £100 billion in 2009/2010 then even if the oil revenue is just pro-rata across the UK as a whole then it's clear that Scotland is not a drain on England's finances - quite the reverse in fact...

This is a poor way to spin it. What it really means is that Scotland needs £7 billion on the cash borrowed by the UK as England doesn't have a spare £7 billion to give to Scotland. Given that the UK as a whole was expecting to borrow way more than £100 billion..... blah blah blah

No, what it really means is you can't pay your way and the rest of the UK is either bailing you out or borrowing to bail you out.

Anyway who cares, just get your independence and leave us alone.

tbh, i'm not interested who spins what, you're bad partners. good riddance.

Yep - don't let the facts get in the way of your bigotry.

Is a scotsman who wants devoloution a patriot and an englishman who wants devoloution a bigot then ?

I only see bigotry on one side of that logic

I'm half-English and half-Scottish so don't have a strong view on the matter. Just pointing out some facts is all.

I don't personally see anything wrong with patriotism. On devolution in England I though those regions that had voted on it were not in favour, although more regional influence does seem like a reasonable idea to me.

Just pointing out some facts is all.

When any of those become apparent be sure to let the class know

I'm bored now. bye.

When any of those become apparent be sure to let the class know

Sorry, I don't teach remedial.

As steve says If you add all the oil revenue to the tax revenue raised in scotland and subtract the amount of tax money spent in Scotland you find that there is a net contribution to the UK from Scotland

I don't think that's a very sensible way of looking at it. If Scotland had been independent when oil was discovered, most likley British companies would have moved in and say paid mineral extraction rights... so SOME revenue would have stayed in Scotland and some not - hard to say.

I don't think that's a very sensible way of looking at it. If Scotland had been independent when oil was discovered, most likley British companies would have moved in and say paid mineral extraction rights... so SOME revenue would have stayed in Scotland and some not - hard to say.

It's further complicated because there are also areas of government that don't currently have to be funded from the Scottish budget but would be if it was independent. And even that is further complicated because the jobs that go with such governmetn areas aren't necessarily geographically spread so with the UK government does take the cost the benefits also tend to be more London centric.

I suspect that most of the English regions are in the same situation as Scotland is, because of the focus on the capital i.e. they probably need direct cash subsidies from the South East of England, but the reasons for that are complicated.

I don't hide the fact that I'd welcome an independent Scotland.
This isn't out of patriotism, or anti Englishness, I just want to live in a fair, social-democratic country that isn't on some post imperial fantasy, trying to make itself more important than it is.
If that country is Britain, fair enough, but if that reality is not acceptable to England, an Independent Scotland will do nicely, with or without the oil.
Being separated from the likes of Dr Gonzo is just an added bonus.

Double Post!

We can quote till the cows come home!

"On the basis of the assumptions and methodologies described in this report, in 2007-08, total public sector non-North Sea current revenue in Scotland was £45.2 billion. This is equivalent to 8.4 per cent of UK total non-North Sea current revenue which is in line with Scotland's share of the UK population.[url= http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/6 ]Source[/url]

Per Capita Share of North Sea Revenue: Scotland 2007-08 is 660m of 7,831m
Geographical Share of North Sea Revenue: Scotland 2007-08 is 7,320m of 7,831m
[url= http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/7 ]Source[/url]

"total public sector expenditure for Scotland was £53.3 billion. This was equivalent to 9.6 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure"
[url= http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/8 ]Source[/url]

"There are number of reasons why public expenditure for Scotland often lies above the UK average. In some cases, higher expenditure per capita reflects the greater relative importance of particular activities for Scotland. Agriculture, fisheries and forestry is one such example. Scotland also has a lower population density than the UK which increases the cost of providing the same level of public service activity, particularly in areas such as education, health and transport.

The scope and remit of the public sector also differs in Scotland compared to the UK. For example, water and sewage services are a public sector responsibility in Scotland, and are therefore included in Scottish public expenditure, whilst in England they are operated by the private sector. The inclusion of Scottish Water in the public sector is one reason why net investment in Scotland is higher than for the UK as a whole.

In other areas, the higher observed Scottish expenditure reflects greater demand for Scottish-based providers. For example, the strength of Scottish universities has created a net inflow of students from other parts of the UK. Additionally, Scottish university courses are typically longer - the honours degree course takes four years, compared with a typical three year course in England and Wales. Therefore, expenditure on education and training for Scotland will be relatively higher than the rest of the UK. However, this benefits the UK as a whole. As discussed in GERS 2006-07, Scottish universities have also been able to attract above average levels of research funding which has contributed to the high level of public expenditure for science and technology in Scotland."
[url= http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/8 ]Source[/url]

In 2007-08, the estimated current budget balance for the public sector in Scotland was a deficit of £7.1 billion (6.3 per cent of GDP) excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of £6.4 billion (5.5 per cent of GDP) including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a surplus of £219 million (0.2 per cent of GDP) including an estimated geographical share of North Sea revenue.
[url= http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/9 ]Source[/url]

At the end of the day most of the UK is subsidised by London and Scotland is less of a burden than Wales, Northern England or Northern Ireland per capita.

Look, if all you English people think you are subsidising us Scots, then why aren't you screaming at your politicians to support Scottish devolution?

Oh, the oil?

We need to gain control over the runaway train of public spending ...............

What we need is a commercially focused wealth generating administration.

Public spending became a "runaway train" when the bankers screwed up ..............screwed up Big Time.

I suggest you try to understand the problem............before offering solutions 💡

Look, if all you English people think you are subsidising us Scots, then why aren't you screaming at your politicians to support Scottish devolution?

Oh, the oil?

To be honest I don't believe it is as big a deal at the moment. However, it will be interesting how things will play out in the future as the oil prices goes sky high. There is still plenty of oil in the North sea. It just needs incentive to get it out.

There are many ways of looking at the figures but it is clear that the myth of the English subsidising the scots is simply that - a myth

No TJ. It's all true. Free health care, free parking, free loans. All subsidised by the English.

I love I how they belive we hAve jobs and everything.

TJ is being way oversimplistic.

It's further complicated because there are also areas of government that don't currently have to be funded from the Scottish budget but would be if it was independent.

Quite.. For example Scotland doesn't currently run an army but it is defended by one that is funded centrally ie with a lot more money from London/SE than from Scotland.. of course a lot of people in said army are FROM Scotland, and will take some of that money home and spend it in Scotland.. is that counted in the public spending analyses?

Personally I think it's vastly too complicated to call. I mean.. say a British company spends money on TV advertising which is broadcast on Channel 4 (partly govt funded) in Scotland, which encourages sales of of a product in Scotland.. now the product's HQ is in England.. but the distribution centre is in Scotland along with the company's call centre.. run from a business park accessed by a motorway built by the UK govt.. I mean how the hell do you expect to work that all out?

It's not clear AT ALL.

Of course Druidh - I forgot you are right. should we be tugging the forelock to our feudal masters?

I'm sure an independent Scotland would be more than capable of running itself.

Of course without any "subsidies" from the English we wouldn't be able to afford to fight expensive wars in remote countries or be able to maintain aircraft carriers because we would be wasting it on elderly care, free parking at hospitals, and free tertiary education.

We should be able to defend ourselves with our share of the nuclear deterrent 🙂

England would benefit from independence too, it might lose a few delusions of faded grandeur.

I have a question semi relevant to be honest. As a rich country where exactly is it that all the money goes, for example when people work and pay tax's what happens to that money and also all the money earned from people working and the efforts of the average person.

Seems to me it flows into the pockets of the rich and powerful who then use it to lord it over the rest of us. Maybe we should focus on getting it back! into our lives.

Not a bad thing having the future of our people in the hands of complete and utter bankers.

After all they did enable us to start the millennium with a Global sh1temare.

I have a question semi relevant to be honest. As a rich country where exactly is it that all the money goes, for example when people work and pay tax's what happens to that money and also all the money earned from people working and the efforts of the average person.

The government (any government, although the current one is worse than most) pisses it away.

No TJ. It's all true. Free health care, free parking, free loans. All subsidised by the English.

further more I am getting free fruit and vegetables from Aberdeen uni* for 4 months.

Cheers 😉
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* who get their money from central government.

I don't care how much oil you've got, you'll [b]never[/b] have one of these.

[img] [/img]

😉

Thats 'cos we dont cheat 🙂

no, it's cos you're crap 😆

I don't care how much oil you've got, you'll never have one of these

I've decided that, as it happened before I was born, it doesn't count (same applies to the even more disastorous European Cup result in '67).

I'm slightly more concerned that, with a decent England manager in place, there is now some danger of it happening again.

[img] [/img]

Got anything more recent? That pic's a bit old and fuzzy to make it out properly. Is it an ornament or something?

no it's a world cup, not suprised you've forgotten what they are though.

( you guys keep setting them up, and i'll get the russian linesman to knock 'em down )

no it's a world cup, not suprised you've forgotten what they are though.

How old are you? Just wondering if all you've got to remind you of the "glory days" are faded pictures taken by others, or if you (or even your parents!) were actually alive at the time... 😉

The Welsh,Irish,French,Poles, Spanish and Germans must have slept well in their beds last night, aware that, for once it's not them that are the target of the Little-Englanders Daily Mail readers xenophobia rant!
Yup, everybody else is simultatiously worse at everything and getting a better deal you!

66 was a long time ago but we like to spread our achievements through the years,it helps to prolong your agony. Here's a vino joven for you to enjoy. 😀
[img] [/img]

Here's a vino joven for you to enjoy

Well I know for a fact that wasn't yesterday... 😉

form is temporary, class is permanent

form is temporary, class is permanent

Which will be why the terrible events of '66 have, thankfully, not re-occurred.

nice spin but it takes more than form to reach those heights.

nice spin but it takes more than form to reach those heights.

Didn't Greece winning the Euro's prove that not to be the case? They were a decent side but it was form (or more precisely a lack of it) by other nations that allowed them to "reach those heights".

Think you're being very hard on an excellent side there, just look at their results throughout the tournament and they were only a magical free kick away from eliminating England from the World Cup two years previously. Not pretty to watch but easily the best side in the competition.

the missus tells me that if scotland didnt have to look after glasgows non working population then we would be able to go self sufficient - as it is glasgow is too much of a drain to allow us to go self sufficient,

im neither pro nor against independance - frankly i think either way its gonna end up in tears !

the missus tells me that if scotland didnt have to look after glasgows non working population then we would be able to go self sufficient - as it is glasgow is too much of a drain to allow us to go self sufficient,

I hadn't realised you were married to Annabel Goldie... 😉