[Closed] employment tribunal judgement

Sounds a lot, are/were you the employer or employee?

He'll be the employer.

You have a lawyer yes?

If not... 🙄 and have a word with the victor, or the judgement may allow time to pay.

appeal options may extend deadline but might also add to costs.

if you can't pay then I guess the other party might try and issue a winding up order to get their payment?

You have 6 weeks to pay up IIRC, after that interest is added [from the day of the judgement]

I'd Get some legal/financial advice on a Cycling Forum.... Oh...

not got a lawyer but a hr company who have been advising ref the tribunal.
every other subject in the world seems to get an airing so i thought what the hell?

I suspect that if you haven't appealed or paid within 6 weeks the ex employee will go to the courts for an order of some sort which'll be automatically granted and then the bailiffs will be around soon after

You sacked them they went to a tribunal, they won, you pay, or if you dont bailiff time or bankruptcy,if a limited comapny or a sole trader/partnership.

The person concerned may well also now be out of work, and be unemployable due to winning a tribunal, they want and need that money, and the law appears to be on their side, sadly.

Nice first post too btw.

bummer! thought so....thanks anyway...

sharp eyes ski!

Join a union, oh no wait hang on, wrong thread.

Would be interesting to hear the events that led to the tribunal.

not got a lawyer but a hr company who have been advising ref the tribunal.

Probably your second error.

Before making a third, go to the bank. Ask for a loan. Pay the claimant.

project - why is it sad that the law is on the side of somebody who's been unfairly dismissed?

The 'law' is a bit stupid is certain circumstances - a prime example of the difference between Law and Morality.

I was talking to somebody (employer) yesterday who had lost a case dispite the employee being incapable of doing their job and refusing the support and training offered by the employer that would have given them the skills they needed.

(brief summary as it was a touch complicated)

aracer - Member
project - why is it sad that the law is on the side of somebody who's been unfairly dismissed?

Posted 17 minutes ago # Report-Post

without the full facts, and the possibility that 1 person may force the closure of a compny, making more staff unemployed.

I was talking to somebody (employer) yesterday who had lost a case dispite the employee being incapable of doing their job and refusing the support and training offered by the employer that would have given them the skills they needed.

OP suck it up and pay sadly and learn a lesson so it never occurs.

he possibility that 1 person may force the closure of a compny

The decisions in these tribunals can beggar belief though on occasions.

At a company I once worked for, a female member of factory staff made constant lewd suggestions to the male factory workers about how many ring doughnuts they could fit on their knobs.
This went on for weeks with her suggesting 'x' might be a 1 doughnut and 'y' a 4 doughnut etc. Eventually one of the lads on the factory floor thought he'd turn the joke around and showed her that he had a 4 doughnut knob - complete with doughnuts.

She claimed sexual harrassment and won £££'s.

Eventually one of the lads on the factory floor thought he'd turn the joke around and showed her that he had a 4 doughnut knob - complete with doughnuts.

She claimed sexual harrassment and won £££'s.

Bet she was dissapointed as well, when she couldnt eat the doughnuts in situ.

can you really not see the difference between banter and getting your donoughut covered todger out in a staff canteen.

If you'd met her you'd know -
a) she was the main harrasser and had taken it well beyond 'banter'
b) she wasn't remotely shocked but saw an opportunity to cash in.

ok fair enough[still a foolish thing to do] and point taken.

without the full facts, and the possibility that 1 person may force the closure of a compny, making more staff unemployed.

Unless one or both of us is stupid...I think you mean the possibility that one employee's asserting his/her right under law after his/her employer treated him/her unlawfully means he/she should be compensated?

Do try harder 🙄

Flame,

Don't use an HR company to help you in court, was it their bad advice that got you there in the first place (hopefully it was and you might be able to claim on their PI insurance)? Go and see a professional (i.e. a real lawyer) now. You'll usually get a half hour chat with one for free to see if you have a leg to stand on. Highlight your cash flow issues and not only will they possibly have suggestions how to manage the issue but also they'll only take on the work if they think you have a chance of surviving it and them getting paid!

Nenija,

As usual with stories which "don't makes sense" there will be more to it. I'm fairly sure if the employer had been seen to have dealt with the donut incident correctly (I guess most employers would consider that display a disciplinary offence) that they will have no liability - it is failing to respond adequately or have appropriate procedures in place that gets you in bother. They may also have been at fault for not stamping out the female workers ongoing behaviour. I'm guessing that when the problem was "reported" that they told her it was her own fault and she deserved it (which personally from your account I would agree with - but you don't say that as an employer).

She claimed sexual harrassment and won £££'s.

And she was right to but that's not the point. Yes she was guilty but two wrongs don't make a right. Why didn't someone make the initial claim against her for her own sexual harrasment?

Surely as a responsible employer you would have had businesses insurance that would cover you for this?

I won't say much more as I'm about to post another post regarding a company who [s]managed me out of the business[/s] made me redundant and my true feelings will come out.

geordiemick00 - I'm not sure you can insure against tribunal claims? I know you can insure against your legal costs (not necessarily value for money). But I can't imagine being able to insure against a compensation payment to an employee. If an insurer were to offer such cover you would have to demonstrate that your policies / procedures were robust enough to withstand a tribunal; and since most tribunals are really about not following procedures you would be liable anyway (as an insurer wouldn't cover you for deviating from the agreed risk profile).

cynic-al - Member

without the full facts, and the possibility that 1 person may force the closure of a compny, making more staff unemployed.

Unless one or both of us is stupid...I think you mean the possibility that one employee's asserting his/her right under law after his/her employer treated him/her unlawfully means he/she should be compensated?

Do try harder

Posted 18 minutes ago # Report-Post

and if the company cant pay, staff loose their jobs as the company is bust,

If the company advised you throughout and that advice left you in an ET, did they not underwrite the advice ?

geordiemick00 - I'm not sure you can insure against tribunal claims? I know you can insure against your legal costs (not necessarily value for money). But I can't imagine being able to insure against a compensation payment to an employee. If an insurer were to offer such cover you would have to demonstrate that your policies / procedures were robust enough to withstand a tribunal; and since most tribunals are really about not following procedures you would be liable anyway (as an insurer wouldn't cover you for deviating from the agreed risk profile).

you're absolutely correct in what you've said, but I fail to have sympathy for employers who can't be bothered to run a ship shape business and to pay to protect themselves from the swathes of people looking to exploit loopholes.

I've been major league shafted twice over the years by employers who CBA to do things the correct way and take their chances, so I refuse to feel sorry for them when they have to pay up. Threatening to lose other workers as a result is as low as it gets too. Getting to a tribunal isn't easy and there's no smoke without fire.

and if the company cant pay, staff loose their jobs as the company is bust,

If the company advised you throughout and that advice left you in an ET, did they not underwrite the advice ?

if the situation was handled properly that should've been the case

and if the company cant pay, staff loose their jobs as the company is bust,

translates as = I'll wind the business up to save paying the £11K but only after I've drained the company of assets

Liquidate and then start a new phoenix company trading under the same name as the old one

Simples 😆

There are plenty of companies out there that will sign you up for insured HR/employment law advice. They generally offer an advice line which you use when an issue comes up and provide documents for you to use (handbook, contracts etc). As long as you follow the advice the line uses and use the docs, you're generally covered for your tribunal costs. The advice and tribunal support (in my experience) is provided by well trained and experienced legal advisers. Then they offer value add services from HR people. I've used them extensively and they've helped me do the right thing plenty of times. Well worth considering and by the sound of things better than the 'HR company' you used up to now.

No sympathy.

mad1000 - those companies don't guarantee to pay any compensation just to provide the legal advice etc during the case (perhaps he was using such a company?). In my experience they are mostly producing template documents which are often unrealistic or impractical for the very smallest companies who are most likely to buy them... ...then they don't follow the procedures properly and leave themselves open to litigation. Obviously some will be better than others and do some handholding to "force" you to use the right systems or make you understand - but its really not rocket science and you don't need some consultant.

Junkyard - Member

so you spoke to someone

Point missed but then again it's not the first time for you on the thread.

£11000 is a huge award from a tribunal. What on earth did you do? You have no option - you have to pay.

I was talking to somebody (employer) yesterday

so you spoke to someone who was found to have behaved incorrectly in law and then you believed their account.... Ps you need to work for a company for at least 12 mths to claim so WTF was this great employer doing then re training and evaluating performance?

TandemJeremy - Member
£11000 is a huge award from a tribunal. What on earth did you do? You have no option - you have to pay.
POSTED 32 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

project

So no actual response to my point? People had said you were thick...

Junkyard - Member

thanks

The point I was making - at the start of the first post - was that the Law doesn't always work as it should. And this was in response the the post above it.

I merely summerised what was a very complicated case - admittedly from the losers point of view. I didn't express any opinion on whether it was the correct outcome or not.

TandemJeremy - Member
£11000 is a huge award from a tribunal. What on earth did you do?

You can obtain cover for both representation, and subsequent payout. Most chambers of commerce membership includes, or can highly recommend Mentor Services who are part of the RBS.

Part of their litigation assessment is the equation of the cost of service vs potential payout, and often they will go with the former if it's more prudent.

Having been on the receiving end of two tribunals to date I'm glad I have cover, both claims were completely without merit, but given the cost to the claimant is zero, they will have a go anyway. Waste of everyone's time.

Regards original post, there is little you can do bar appealing. Phoenixing the company would no doubt transfer the liability under tupe, and cause a lot more problems on top so not a good option.