My lad works for a well known Plumbing company. He doesn't get on with the manager and has asked for a transfer. None was available so he has been looking for another job. He went for an interview earlier this week at an independent plumbers merchant in another local town and was given the job. While he was there he was spotted by a rep he knows and said 'You've not seen me, ok?'. He was going to hand his notice in today but was called in the office and told by his Boss that he was in 'breach of trust of his manager' and 'breach of contract' and has been suspended. He was then sent home with no other further information apart from that there would be a meeting. He wasn't told where or when or who would be attending. When he queried this he was told by his manager that this is what he had been told to do by HR at Head Office. I'm no expert on employment law but this doesn't seem right. I'm not sure what to advise him to do other than contact Head Office himself and speak to HR department and get them to tell him where he stands and get something in writing. Can anyone give me a clue?
First question is "which bit of the contract am I breaching, can you show me"
As long as he'd taken time off for the interview (i.e. not pulled a sickie to go to it, or said he was on a job), they've not really got a leg to stand on
Assuming the interview didn't take place in his working hours then he's perfectly entitled to go for an interview.
Breach of trust lol, that's comedy gold..
Note however that if he's been there less than 2y he has pretty much no rights anyway.
First question is “which bit of the contract am I breaching, can you show me”
This. Is he contractually obliged to never change jobs?!
He was going to hand his notice in today but was called in the office
Did he not hand in his notice anyway?
breach of trust of his manager
Oh that's a good one. A call to ACAS is probably in order.
Note however that if he’s been there less than 2y he has pretty much no rights anyway.
Not true. He has little protection against unfair dismissal but he is still entitled to things like process, notice periods, and the like. You can't be summarily dismissed with no notice or PILON just because your manager doesn't trust you.
If he is leaving anyway, avoiding dismissal probably isn't a major concern but that doesn't mean the company can ride roughshod over his other employment rights.
So long as the interview was outside of his normal hours then they are talking out of their ass.
PS, if he get's a new job and sees the rep again, I'd be having words with the little worm.
Is the suspension definitely due to being spotted by the rep? If he doesn't get on with the manager then it could be for a variety of spurious reasons.
Anyhow, just get the notice handed in, then if they don't want him in because they're sorting out the show trial, he can put his feet up and watch Homes Under the The Hammer.
He has been there just over 2 years, I think. He was off that afternoon on a pre-booked medical appointment. His manager spouted something like 'you are in breach of paragraph 18.4 in your contract'. which, of course, the lad has never actually read. He didn't get chance or option to hand his notice in.
Latest development is that his Manager has rung him at home being 'very nice about it' and saying that they can go down one of two routes - the HR way or Will offers straight resignation. He (stupidly in my views) said I'll offer straight resignation so I can start work at the new place. He just wants a clean break and to start afresh at the new job but this really stinks to me. They have basically pressurised him into resigning.
Sounds a little bit naughty, and TBH I wouldn't fight tooth and nail for the right to work an extra couple of weeks. Play nice, resign, get straight to work somewhere else.
PS Have you dropped his first name in there by mistake?
If the new job is secured then it's not even an issue. Cut losses move on and don't engage with any nonsense.
He was off that afternoon on a pre-booked medical appointment.
and pulled a bit of a fast one by going to an interview. sounds like everyone gets what they want.
whats the point in starting a fight about it?
They have basically pressurised him into resigning
If he was going to hand his notice anyway why worry about it? It sounds like a place he's better off out of anyway so I would be just looking forward to the new job!
They have basically pressurised him into resigning.
But he was gonna resign anyway?
They have basically pressurised him into resigning.
..although he was intending to resign in any case.
Pick your battles - the best thing he can do is ensure that the terms of his departure include agreement regarding a reference.
If he wasn't planning on leaving it'd be a different kettle of worms and I'd agree with the ACAS / union / lawyers route, but in this case, what's to be achieved?
He was off that afternoon on a pre-booked medical appointment
Oh! Well yes that's a bit different but if he's leaving just hand his notice in end of.
yeah just move on, as he got a new job etc. put it down to experience.
(If he didn't have a job to go to, yes fight it, but be a lot of time, effort and stress.)
Fair enough. It still rankles a bit. Thanks all for the advice. Much appreciated.
Depends on if he was using annual leave or TOIL etc to go the the medical appointment- if he was then he can do what he wants as it’s ‘his time’. However if he was given the leave at short notice due to there being a medical reason then it could be viewed as a trust issue.
If it was paid time off for a medical appointment then he may have a case to answer to.
He’s going anyway so resign and make the exit as smooth as possible. (I feel he’s done the right thing as he has his new job to go to)
Also maybe use this as a learning experience- always be where you are meant to be in paid working hours (if that is the case).
ATB for the new job.
I bet it rankles with the old employer that your son lied about the medical appointment. Maybe "everyone does it" but I'd think you would be doing him a favour if you stopped feeling sorry for him and pointed out he'd learnt this lesson cheaply.
Well if his manager was a 'see you en tee' he's better off out, and don't worry about telling a few white lies to get there.
In the past, I have been advised that if you as a manager discover that one of your employees is actively seeking work elswhere, then this does constitute a break down of trust and it can be acted upon, to what extent I do not know but it is why most people operate on a 'don't ask don't tell' basis when it comes to job hunting. But you know, IANAL etc.
None of this really makes any difference though as has already been pointed out - the easiest solution is for him to just resign as he was already going to do.
I bet it rankles with the old employer that your son lied about the medical appointment.
Its stated that it was a pre booked medical appointment. Nowhere is there a suggestion of a sickie. You’ve made a bit of a leap there.
as suggested OP, pick the battles. Chalk it up to experience and move on!
The trust and confidence thing is an implied term. It doesn't need to be written down.
Looking for another job while employed isn't considered a breach.
My bad sorry OP. Assuming that it was a genuine appointment and then he fitted the interview into time that had already been agreed as absence.
I doubt there's much to be gained in fighting it.
Plenty of employers are ****s, move on, unless you can get some £££ out of it IMO (I doubt he can).
Assuming that it was a genuine appointment and then he fitted the interview into time that had already been agreed as absence.
for travelling to the appointment, having the appointment and travelling back from the appointment.
not having an interview at another company...
Yep lessons to learn there, don't use sick/medical time for interviews unless you are 100% certain about getting it!
Also learn how to be discrete when looking for new jobs.
As for breach of trust, it might be but not a breach of contract
one of your employees is actively seeking work elswhere
News flash. We still live in a free society..
Maybe not after brexit though..
but I’d think you would be doing him a favour if you stopped feeling sorry for him and pointed out he’d learnt this lesson cheaply.
Agreed
However...in your son’s position either now or in a few years time when a little more senior with a bit more clout I’d be repaying that rep (who must deal with his new employer too) with a financial bitch slap. He had no need to get invokved and needs a little payback.
"Note however that if he’s been there less than 2y he has pretty much no rights anyway."
This is a bit misleading. You have few options for enforcing non-contractual employment rights but you still have a fully enforceable employment contract.
Out of interest, what was the situation around the time off for the appointment? Did he book a day of annual leave and say it was for an appointment? Or was he allowed to pop out (while still on the clock) to get to a medical appointment and then also go to an interview?
In the past, I have been advised that if you as a manager discover that one of your employees is actively seeking work elswhere, then this does constitute a break down of trust
Yeah that's bollocks.
Assuming that it was a genuine appointment and then he fitted the interview into time that had already been agreed as absence.
Agreed absence for an appointment not a job interview.
Agreed absence for an appointment not a job interview.
But if you've got the afternoon off, you've had your appointment,( providing it wasn't agreed that you went back to work), what you do with the rest of the time is your buisness. How about if you stopped of in a cafe for a cup of tea ? Did a bit if shopping, watched homes under the hammer.
How about if you stopped of in a cafe for a cup of tea ? Did a bit if shopping, watched homes under the hammer.
Seems reasonable after your appointment going for an interview is different.
If he has been offered another job he should hand in his notice ASAP - then it will go on record as resigned, not dismissed.
Out of interest, what was the situation around the time off for the appointment? Did he book a day of annual leave and say it was for an appointment? Or was he allowed to pop out (while still on the clock) to get to a medical appointment and then also go to an interview?
This is crucial. But probably a bit irrelevant now as it is done and dusted. Worked for employers that are very good and allow time off for medical appointments not to have to be made up or be unpaid or taken out of annual leave. If the medical appointment was in that situation I can see how disappointing it would be. Also the OP has not made it clear if his lad cancelled the appointment to make time for the interview or did both. Finally reading the OP again the lad got suspended pending investigation/meeting. That does not seem too out of hand. If the meeting had happened and he has explained the run of events there might have been a different outcome. Too many unfinished ends to know where this might have gone.
It's all hypothetical now but surely the sensible response would have been to give notice then regardless and ask if they want him to work his notice?
Employers seem to have a strange idea of how much power they have sometimes, sure they can discipline an employee for all sorts of stupid reasons if they really want to but there's no reason for your son to play along when he has a new job.
Latest development is that his Manager has rung him at home being ‘very nice about it’ and saying that they can go down one of two routes – the HR way or Will offers straight resignation. He (stupidly in my views) said I’ll offer straight resignation so I can start work at the new place. He just wants a clean break and to start afresh at the new job but this really stinks to me. They have basically pressurised him into resigning.
Lad has done the right thing as once he got the job offer he might as well start new by having a clean break with the current company. Not worth the hassle and no point of going to HR or hear them speak etc. Lad got the job so move on to start new again.
If he gets a bad reference then then explain accordingly.