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Any accountants or tax folk on?
I think the answer is no...
mrs_oab is employed at three different school sites.
She also travels each week to run training or attend meetings to various, changeable sites.
Employer does not pay mileage (although managers in same post do get...grrr)
Can she claim any off tax bill?
Discrimination?
What does her contract say?
Tell them she no longer has a car?
Is her car that she no longer has insured for business use?
IANAA but I believe she has to be given an official place of work and travel between there and home cannot be offset against tax. Travel to any other sites for work can be claimed.
I don't see how an employer can pay some employees' mileage but not others - this kind of thing is not a benefit in kind!
IANAA but I believe she has to be given an official place of work and travel between there and home cannot be offset against tax. Travel to any other sites for work can be claimed.
This we understand - the normal commuting to the three sites is our cost.
BUT, she then sometimes gets a call and has to pop to another school, or into council office or even one of the other two schools she is normally in (on 7 week rotation)
I don't see how an employer can pay some employees' mileage but not others - this kind of thing is not a benefit in kind!
Welcome to council austerity.
Paying mileage isn't a perk... Very odd behaviour. I'd just get her to ask her boss how to get there / how to claim mileage.
What kind of distances are we talking (though it's a moot point, as it should be paid)
Paying mileage isn't a perk... Very odd behaviour.
Not of you are a teacher in Scotland. None of the people who come on my courses get mileage. Next week I have teachers from all over Moray and Highland travelling to Inverness - I dont think any will get mileage.
Get a taxi and put it through expenses instead then.
I am not sure the employer is obliged to pay mileage, but I would expect consistency if they do. As mentioned above, I understand normal practice to be that one site is defined as the 'main' site and mileage can be claimed from there (but not for commuting between there and home).
Whether this main site can be on rotation I don't know.
Also, you can claim a tax rebate if the employer pays less than HMRC mileage rates [url= https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/business-mileage-fuel-costs ]info here[/url]
Is Mrs_OAB an employee (PAYE) or on a contract basis?
Might this be a central Scotland authority, which has merged services with a neighbour?
PAYE and yes, a couple of LA's that are working closely together across the Forth. 😉
As I say though, normal in teaching.
My understanding is that for tax purposes you have a regular place of work defined (even if that is 'home'). You do not get mileage for journeys to and from that place, but you do get mileage to any other sites you have to attend (measured from your official site) IIRC.
I think.
'across the Forth' you say...
"When you use your car or bicycle for authorised business purposes, mileage will be reimbursed at the HMRC (Inland Revenue) rate. The Council has available pool
vehicles for business use."
Has MrsOAB tried to claim - and if so what was the response? She might need to include petrol receipts (so they can claim the VAT component back).
EDIT - Cougar, yes more eloquently put than me. I'm pretty sure that's the case if mileage is offered.
What does her car insurance say (if not for business use) I am sure most only cover to one place of employment (technically)
Has MrsOAB tried to claim - and if so what was the response? She might need to include petrol receipts (so they can claim the VAT component back).
Yes, as have many. No is the answer.
Pool cars are not available to non-authorised pool car drivers. If you work at council offices, you are allowed pool car first, mileage if not available. 😕
We have full business use for both of us - me for travelling in both cars, her as in an emergency she could carry a child somewhere.
'Sod it then, ill walk. Tell em i'll be there in a couple of hours'
Crikey. I'd be tempted to opt for an easy life, claim it via HMRC (not the council). Other option seems to be TU or generally making oneself unpopular with the management. It doesn't seem especially fair to me though.
I'd be tempted to opt for an easy life, claim it via HMRC (not the council).
That is why I ask.
Just to point out she has colleagues who work in schools that are 40 miles from training venues - some are asked to attend meeting in middle of day, so drive 40 miles commute, 40 miles back, 40 miles up to school, and 40 miles home at end of day... Her own furthest nursery is 36 miles away from Stirling..
I think it means you end up doing a [url= https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/business-mileage-fuel-costs ]tax return[/url], but there used to be a 'short verson'. To be honest the long one isn't really that bad - need to keep a record of journeys (but you would anyway so not much extra effort).
Edit - both typing at the same time. There might be a case for a pool car, for those sort of circumstances, but I can't remember if they are placed at schools or just at the offices.
Without being arsey about it you just need to be firm about the costs of doing this.
If management want staff to travel for business, they need to cover the cost of this or provide a means to get there. Schools basically take the piss with expenses, you just wouldn't stand for it in a professional business environment.
If no joy on expenses I'd seek [i]advice [/i]from union, which may then result in saying "if you want me to travel somewhere you provide the transport!"
[i]"a couple of LA's that are working closely together"[/i]
Matt, does this mean that she has two separate employers, with two separate contracts of employment? 😕
No, she works for Stirling. Just that Clacks and Stirling are slowly merging a lot of services - education being a leading area of shared provision.
The point above has been made about car insurance
Given its a local authority, I reckon doing it by the book and asking for confirmation of their position regards car insurance In writing is the only way
You will ALWAYS get fobbed off with bullsh** answers till they have to put it in writing - if they don't answer then you have fantastic grounds for a grievance procedure
Insurance is not an issue - it cost the grand total of nothing to have it added to our policies last year.
If employer pays nothing then she can claim 45p per mile from HMRC
I think it's a P87 form, very simple to do, I was doing it for the last few years (employer paid 11p a mile I claimed the difference to 45p)
It will probably be paid back via an adjustment to her tax code rather than an actual physical payment
Any trips between home and place of work on her contract cannot be claimed so say she is employed at school A then travel between school A and school B can be claimed, or travel from home directly to school B, but not home to School A
matt, the issue isn't whether it cost anything - the issue is what is she didn't add it!
Is there a link to the actual official travel policy?
Can't claim 45p per mile back from HMRC.
Can only claim [i]the tax[/i] back on 45p per mile.
Big difference.
Which reminds me, I have 3 years worth of tax to claim back on 5.5p per mile. Probably worth doing now.
It is an employment contract question on what her contracted work location is. Travel there is commuting and you can't claim. Travel anywhere else isn't commuting and you can claim to HMR&C - details below on how to, but if it is business mileage, collar the employer. There may be some travel policy lurking somewhere to refer to which is part of the staff handbook and covers travel claims.
[url= https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/business-mileage-fuel-costs ]https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/business-mileage-fuel-costs[/url]
Okay, in my opinion (ex HM Inspector of Taxes) she'll have a "normal" place of work which changes day-by-day. Getting to and from that place of work will be ordinary commuting costs.
Any additional travel, such as a lunch-time meeting, should be regarded as a business expense. If the employer fails to reimburse these expenses, she can claim tax relief, at the approved rate.
[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-tax-relief-for-expenses-of-employment-p87 ]Form P87[/url] is probably the best way to claim, although a letter would be adequate.
I suggest she claims initially for 2014-15, and if successful, also claims for earlier years.
HMRC rules for claiming mileage are that you are not allowed to claim from your home to normal place of work (a single place from my understanding) which for sake of discussion is 10 miles.
You are allowed to claim the extra for travel to other places if they are in excess of the distance to your fixed place of work. So if site B is 15 miles, then you can claim for 5 miles.
As above you can claim the difference between the HMRC approved rate, 45ppm for your own vehicle, and what you are actually paid and this is added to your tax code - so you save the tax on it.
[quote=steveh ]HMRC rules for claiming mileage are that you are not allowed to claim from your home to normal place of work (a single place from my understanding) which for sake of discussion is 10 miles.
You are allowed to claim the extra for travel to other places if they are in excess of the distance to your fixed place of work. So if site B is 15 miles, then you can claim for 5 miles.
As above you can claim the difference between the HMRC approved rate, 45ppm for your own vehicle, and what you are actually paid and this is added to your tax code - so you save the tax on it.
All of that. Mrs OAB should keep a note of her mileage and fill in a tax return at the end of the year. If she is getting no mileage allowance from her employer then she will receive the tax back on 45p per mile (i.e. 9p per mile at the standard rate).
Cheers esme and steveh - will go and write a letter, see where it goes.
It is an employment contract question on what her contracted work location is.
Her job contract consists of one line and an annual salary figure. EDIT: although the standards of SNCT are adhered to, as we already had that argument. 😉
I doubt there is much of a staff handbook she could hold them too.
Seems crazy. In Scottish borders we can claim mileage. Although courses become complicated as they are happy for mileage or overnight but both are not really going to happen.
Can't claim 45p per mile back from HMRC.
Can only claim the tax back on 45p per mile.
Big difference.
Yep, that's what I meant by saying tax code is adjusted, just lazy typing
There might be an LNCT agreement that's worth checking out for local conditions, but I suspect that the PBB exercise will have over-ridden that. If she can demonstrate that managers are getting mileage, that might make a stronger point.
She should also ask for a copy of her particulars of employment if she doesn't have a copy already (and check the date on them when received).
Current teaching job adverts mention mileage rates (quoted above) and available on myjobscotland...
hmmmm, I am off to my job scotland...
No advice for the OP beyond expressing my sympathy. We had a handyman in the local authority children's homes I work in who got an essential car user supplement in his wages as he used his car to store his tools/move between homes. Last year they took his essential user allowance off him, so he got a bike on C2W and told them he would use his bike to travel between sites. They told him that he could not do that, as it would take too long to get between sites and he would have nowhere to carry his tools etc. They told him he had to use his car, but that the use of it was not essential, just necessary.
😯
Particulars [url= https://www.myjobscotland.gov.uk/councils/stirling-council/jobs/teacher-art-design-stirling-high-school-13307/126555 ]here[/url]. This was the [url= https://www.myjobscotland.gov.uk/councils/stirling-council/jobs/teacher-art-design-stirling-high-school-13307 ]advert[/url]
yeah but I think that'll be out of date by now
Well it says this in that link you sent....
Seems pretty clear! Ask them if her travel is "authorised". If they say yes then she can claim!
Travel and Subsistence Allowance
When you use your car or bicycle for authorised business purposes, mileage will be reimbursed at the HMRC (Inland Revenue) rate. The Council has available pool vehicles for business use.
I've just completed my P87. A few years I was in a similar situation submitted the P87 (or its equivalent) I got a cheque back from HMRC and they altered my tax code
"Not of you are a teacher in Scotland. None of the people who come on my courses get mileage. Next week I have teachers from all over Moray and Highland travelling to Inverness - I dont think any will get mileage."
interesting as mrs t-r(a teacher) seems to get it when justified....offsite training courses & official requested offsite meetings + SQA days.
HMRC rules for claiming mileage are that you are not allowed to claim from your home to normal place of work (a single place from my understanding) which for sake of discussion is 10 miles.
You are allowed to claim the extra for travel to other places if they are in excess of the distance to your fixed place of work. So if site B is 15 miles, then you can claim for 5 miles.
Not so. You can claim mileage from home to your 'other place'
Does Mrs OAB's contract state she has to have a car?, if not then I think they're on very dodgy ground all round, could she cycle to work on a few occasions just to make the point.
I had a heated discussion with a previous employer about carrying work items and needing then business insurance.
I used my motorcycle for a few days and got the point home that how we travel to and from work is our own choice, another colleague who lived close by cycled in!
I hope you manage to get this resolved.