[Closed] Employer demanding employees administer Covid tests

A good friend of mine is currently on her 3rd day of voluntarily helping with testing at her daughters school - it wasn't any question in her mind about whether to help or not.

She is unhappy with the absence of H&S plan for testing and lack of change in H&S plan since first return to work (i.e. no consideration of increased transmissibility of variant strains), no information about what PPE may be available and lack of training (i.e. none).

She's only just heard about this but already knows there's no training (very doubtful) but doesn't know about availability of PPE.

Maybe find out some more information before jumping on the keyboard to complain about it to some random people on an unrelated forum?

Thankfully there's a great many other teachers out there who are thinking about someone other than themselves - and many thousands of people who are helping out in many ways even though it isn't in their job description.

And TBH she's got more chance of picking it up in the supermarket than testing some kids.

WWSTD?

Just do it?

However, her job title is ‘teacher’. I would say that administering infectious disease testing is, even in the current climate, some way removed from the role of a teacher.

I'd argue in the current climate it is?

Surely unless the school expects her to teach a full timetable at the same time as directing little Tarquin and Chardonay how to jab a swab up their nose it's making little to no difference to her what they ask her to do between 8:30 and 3:15?

A good friend of mine is currently on her 3rd day of voluntarily helping with testing at her daughters school – it wasn’t any question in her mind about whether to help or not.

So she chose to do it. What's that got to do with someone been told to do it?

Let us know what your job is, I'm sure we can find something you're not trained to do that would unsettle you.

If she's been told it's voluntary and doesn't want to do it she should take that at face value and just say no.

but she and her team have been told in no uncertain terms by their manager that it is mandatory.

I'd be running that by the union rep.

Maybe find out some more information before jumping on the keyboard to complain about it to some random people on an unrelated forum?

Or, maybe wind your neck in before trolling to some random people on an unrelated forum?

Surely unless the school expects her to teach a full timetable at the same time as directing little Tarquin and Chardonay how to jab a swab up their nose it’s making little to no difference to her what they ask her to do between 8:30 and 3:15?

Yep, this is in addition to a full timetable of what was expected to be remote learning and managerial roles too.

Spin

If she’s been told it’s voluntary and doesn’t want to do it she should take that at face value and just say no.

She's been expressly told she has to.

I’d be running that by the union rep.

Has done so, but the union at her place are ineffective.

The union should be giving her similar advice to the advice we have at work, and that I've been giving to my members.

1.  If communicated as voluntary, it is voluntary. End of subject. Her manager can say whatever they want to give the impression its 'mandatory' but unless in writing, it is not.

2. If she is to administer tests to the kids she should have training. H&SAWe Act1974, MHASAWR, PUWER..... etc. She is an employee and should be trained. (we cannot self test without doing the training package.)

3. As per above if there is no Risk Assessment and PPE provided, it does not happen. Employer's responsibility to assess risk and put controls in place as per the Hierarchy of controls.

4. "Her employment contract says that her duties include such tasks as she may reasonably be directed to do from time to time by her employer" as its voluntary she hasn't been directed to, and i would argue the reasonability of the request.

Let us know what your job is, I’m sure we can find something you’re not trained to do that would unsettle you

This. Pandemic or not, it's wrong to pressurise people into doing things at work which they aren't trained or qualified to do or which are well outwith the job description.

Let us know what your job is, I’m sure we can find something you’re not trained to do that would unsettle you.

IT (obvs) - but I'm volunteering as a vaccinator - does that help?

Is there perhaps someone she thinks is less valuable or more disposable than herself that should be doing it instead?

Let us know what your job is, I’m sure we can find something you’re not trained to do that would unsettle you.

Camera tech.

Other stuff I've been asked to do recently - fix the electrics on an ambulance, change the headlamp bulbs on an ambulance, frequent DIY covid tests and submit results.

I haven't cried to my union that fixing headlamps is below my paygrade or sharing health test results into a watsapp group is a breach of data protection. I just get shit done so the job goes ahead smoothly.

Thanks CJ01 in particular re: points 2 and 3. That accords with my thinking too.

She’s been expressly told she has to.

That's the bit she needs to take to the union. As crazyjenkins says, it can't be voluntary and mandatory.

If the school rep is ineffective she should go to the area rep or head office.

IT (obvs) – but I’m volunteering as a vaccinator – does that help?

I'd say volunteering as a vaccinator with full training and PPE provided is completely different to being told you have to carry out testing with neither.

But don't let that wipe the smug feeling of moral superiority off your face.

I haven’t cried to my union that fixing headlamps is below my paygrade or sharing health test results into a watsapp group is a breach of data protection. I just get shit done so the job goes ahead smoothly.

Not all heroes wear capes.

IT (obvs) – but I’m volunteering as a vaccinator – does that help?

With some degree of training...

I’d say volunteering as a vaccinator with full training and PPE provided is completely different to being told you have to carry out testing with neither.

And she knows for a fact that there isn't any training or PPE?

But don’t let that wipe the smug feeling of moral superiority off your face.

Thanks, I won't.

thisisnotaspoon
Full Member

Is there perhaps someone she thinks is less valuable or more disposable than herself that should be doing it instead?

Better trained? Better prepared? No idea why you've gone direct to this unpleasant take on it tbh

She’s been expressly told she has to.

Has she questioned this, explaining that she was originally told it was voluntary? Has she sought further clarification from HR or SLT?

Sticking things in children is not the same as being asked to change a lightbulb… who is responsible if the child is hurt (or say they are hurt)?

Elsewhere, if you are involved in testing or vaccinating the public, as a professional or volunteer, you are offered the vaccine, yes?

Jesus! There are some pathetic people on this thread. OP, if she’s not comfortable doing it and hasn’t had the required training then she has every right to refuse, especially so given the fact that it is described as voluntary. Ignore the righteous ones who have given their lives to change a bulb or something.

.

This. Pandemic or not, it’s wrong to pressurise people into doing things at work which they aren’t trained or qualified to do or which are well outwith the job description.

+1

There are some very unpleasant people on this thread with a distorted sense of moral superiority.

Not in any way trolling, but given all schools were going back today and that we knew that when they did, that testing would be required, especially during the first few weeks, How was she not going to be teaching on-site for another 4 weeks? Uni lecturer?

Just for reference - my job title bears little resemblance to many of things I'm requested/required/instructed to do as "part of" my job.

No problem Jakester.

To be fair to her manager though, training and PPE may well be provided but I'd expect this detail before going in. Re: the training, I'd also assume this would be a safeguarding issue if not trained?

There are some very unpleasant people on this thread with a distorted sense of moral superiority.

'Teacher' and 'union' are probably trigger words for that type of response!

I agree that it can't be voluntary and mandatory at the same time. And that training is necessary, whatever form that comes in (could depend on age group, at my wife's secondary school the volunteers are handing out the kits and doing the reagent mixing and dropping onto the test strips bit but the kids are free to stick the swabs up their own noses thanks!)

But - you can't come on asking for opinions and then rail against anyone with a different one. If you were only looking for validation of your own view, that's not how it works and you must be new here!

Not in any way trolling, but given all schools were going back today and that we knew that when they did, that testing would be required, especially during the first few weeks, How was she not going to be teaching on-site for another 4 weeks? Uni lecturer?

6th form college.

Re: the training, I’d also assume this would be a safeguarding issue if not trained?

I'd have also thought a big risk in relation to improperly administered tests showing incorrect results as well, though I don't actually know about the mechanism of testing beyond 'shove it in someone's face'.

Has the "job description" been misinterpreted ?

My eldest is at High School and had the first test last Friday. No one stuck anything in /up him , the kids had to administer the test themselves. Teacher was just there to hand out and collect the swabs. If that is the case , then I don't see it being an issue, other than the additional time it takes whilst she should be doing something else.

Will she be literally administering the tests (tickling the tonsils with the swab) or is it just a supervisory role of handing them out and collecting them in / noting down results?

Very different things I feel. The first is very unreasonable without full PPE and training, and should be voluntary - the second I'm a lot more "meh, just do it" about.

you can’t come on asking for opinions and then rail against anyone with a different one

It wasn’t just different opinions that were offered, some of the replies were just rude to the extent that deserves being ‘railed against’.

It wasn’t just a different opinion that was offered, some of the replies were just rude to the extent that deserves being ‘railed against’.

They seemed quite vindictive to me, totally uncalled for.

you can’t come on asking for opinions and then rail against anyone with a different one.

It's not different opinions that are the problem here, it's the nasty judgements some are offering.

actually I think the initial responses were not unreasonable. It was other responses to these responses that escalated it.

Especially finding it's a sixth form college, all I imagine that will be done will be handing out and collecting in the tests and maybe a bit of the mixing and dripping.

Find out and then examine whether it's a reasonable request.

These are not normal times.

6th form college.

Surely 6th form college students can administer their own tests? Seems odd that they want staff to do it for them.

Our school asked for volunteers, I didn't as I don't the whole concept of asking schools to do this testing is appropriate. It still got done though.

Will she be literally administering the tests (tickling the tonsils with the swab) or is it just a supervisory role of handing them out and collecting them in / noting down results?

The latter if it's anything like my school.

Hubris aside, I'm not sure the avearge teacher would be suitable to admimistrate nasal swabs etc, (willing or not) surely that is a medical proceedure that would require a ceratin amount of specific training/qualification?

I'm playing devils advocate here a little, but it sounds unreasonable to me to expect a teacher to carry out a medical proceedure beyond standard first aid.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Capes are voluntary. It’s mandatory to wear your underpants over your trousers through.

I’d have also thought a big risk in relation to improperly administered tests showing incorrect results as well

It's really not difficult to do - I did my first one this morning and it was incredibly simple.

Surely 6th form college students can administer their own tests?

IIRC, 12-17 should take their own whilst being watched by a 'testing helper' and 18+ just do their own tests, so some students in a 6th form will need to be supervised. I do not believe anyone is expecting helpers to *DO* the tests. Again OP, I think your wife needs to get further clarification here.

I’m not sure the avearge teacher would be suitable to admimistrate nasal swabs etc, (willing or not) surely that is a medical proceedure that would require a ceratin amount of specific training/qualification?

I don't see why..the staff manning the testing centres just give the testing swabs and tell you to get on with it.

Hubris aside, I’m not sure the avearge teacher would be suitable to admimistrate nasal swabs etc, (willing or not) surely that is a medical proceedure that would require a ceratin amount of specific training/qualification?

Certainly not wanting to escalate anything here but it's not a medical procedure.
The swabs are the same as for the home testing kits that have been used for nearly a year (two of my daughters used home testing kits last summer and they found it easy) - in fact I think that it's probably more difficult for a third person to administer the nasal swab as the instructions seem to be to put the swab as far up your nose as you're comfortable with. How would someone else know at what point this was?

Also seen many kids on TV this morning doing their own swabs with the teachers/volunteers just overseeing each one.

Right, she's now been told by her manager (i.e. the same one) she isn't now required to carry this out - I suspect as a result of general uproar across the college and union queries, so she'll 'just' be in a marshalling capacity instead.

Amazing how quickly it changed when queried.

So my son. 9yrs returned to school today. It's 3 tier here so a Middle School, yrs 5-8 but regarded by Govt as 'Secondary' so he has to test and wear masks in lessons.

First item of the day was testing. Teacher observed / assisted whilst all the pupils tested themselves (I understand it's a nasal swab no requirement for tonsils). My lad's teacher has been brilliant. Took them through the process on the last 'tutor group' video call on Friday to prepare the class for today.

I guess he could have gone running to the Union as it wasn't in his job spec.

Or maybe it was BS in the first place?