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I think that helmets for skiing are the same as helmets for cycling.
Essential for children who have softer heads, and for adults in high risk situations (racing, skiing off piste), probably of limited benefit for adults in lower risk situations (pisted skiing on reds and blues), despite the inevitable anecdotes about people who were told that they'd definitely be dead/disabled/paralysed now by a doctor in a ski resort when they suffered an injury.
I'f im skiing thne more than likely I will want to wear a hat, to keep my head and ears warm. I might aswell make it a really good, storng, warm hat!
I've been wearing a helmet since 1999 after "coming around" in the back of what turnout to be a Heuy being flown down the hill with the "air paramedic" looking over me in a mirrored visor !! One of my first clear thoughts was this is sooo cool if I turn out alright..... Sorry I digress .... Snotrag's logic is the best I've ever heard.
I think most people have covered the essentials, regarding cheap kit (Ebay, Decathlon, TK Maxx) lip balm and the advantage of a few lessons beforehand.
i'd also add- definitely wear helmets- you might not fall hard enough, but chairlift bars hurt, and the rail of a ski falling over/ your chidren dropping them on you is pretty sharp.
Also, as you are in Italy, there is no excuse not to stop for a Bombardino: https://club-vino.co.uk/bombardino-what-is-it-and-how-do-i-make-the-best-bombardino/
Ah yes the helmet debate.
My friend hit the deck a couple of weeks ago when a snowboarding instructor took her out early in January. On the same holiday I hit a hidden obstacle at the base of an unpisted red (in falling snow) with flat light, going otb. We both really whacked our heads.
Drink plenty of water. It's easy to get dehydrated up in the mountains when taking exercise.
Helmets - I've clattered my head properly twice in 6 years.
Once was in fog/cloud when my brain did a backflip and decided horizontal was vertical and vice-versa and I took a lie down whilst going faster than I realised. Completely my fault.
The other was last year skiing down a wide empty blue when a teenage french lad literally tried to ski through me from behind. The first I was aware of it was when the back of my head bounced off the piste. Regularly bashed snow is pretty hard. I saw stars... No lid and I think I'd had been out for the count.
(he stopped, checked I was OK, brought my skis back to me then FOed pronto)
How many of those of you who love skiing in the Alps have tried mountain biking outside bike parks in the Alps?
I really enjoy skiing, but riding in the Alps is sublime.
With any luck, it’ll be warm most of the time
Heretic
Heretic
I re-read my post just after I sent it, and almost edited it to say *feel* warm most of the time, but thought ‘nah’.
We don’t really want it to *be* warm, just feel warm.
True story- many years ago, skiing with snow heads in April, it was so warm, that a guy took off his top, then popped his lift pass through his nipple ring and enjoyed the spring conditions.
How many of those of you who love skiing in the Alps have tried mountain biking outside bike parks in the Alps?
I've raced DH, ridden enduro, done some extensive hike a bike and explored in the Alps.
I've also raced on skis, skied off piste extensively including hiking and touring.
I'm a much better skier than rider, and a dry slope is fun (I enjoy racing) but such a poor imitation to snow so for me, snow every time.
I've MTBed on alpine x-c routes, nice views and not so inspiring riding, bof. I've been meaning to do the Kônigsee to Gardasee transalp route for years but probably never will what with the guided supported tours now being e-bike. Pyrénees similar, I prefer riding the trails in the foothills which offer crusing around with the odd descent the kids have worked on. Ainsa is far more fun than anything high up.
I know I should wear a helmet but don't except when competing and I haven't done that since age 55.
How many of those of you who love skiing in the Alps have tried mountain biking outside bike parks in the Alps?
A few years ago (at Andermatt in Switzerland) we hired fat bikes. They take you on the Glacier Express a few miles up the valley then you get off and ride down the floodlit ski slopes, sliding around on the snow. Then repeat. It's all done at night when the skiers are in the bars. Brilliant fun.
Yep
Me and dezb hired 2wd fat ebikes in the Alps.
Unbelievable what you could ride up and down.
Also been to the PDS in the summer, loved it. But your brain needs a reset as weight is not an issue with the lifts doing the work
We had the first of the two lessons last night at SnoZone. Just a three hour session for level 1 & 2 and then back again in a couple of weeks for 3 & 4. The kids, perhaps not surprisingly, seem to take to it ok but I found it a bit frustrating and the snow plough, and trying to turn with a snow plough was unnatural. For some reason I couldn’t turn right.
Chatting in the car on the way home about my frustrations and asking them how they did it, it appears that the daughter was doing parallel turns so was weighting the opposite leg I was for any given direction.
I suspect they may be away sooner than me on the slopes, which is cool. I may have to track them from a mountainside restaurant.
And, the kit list has extended as the hire helmets were a bit dodgy, very ill fitting so I’m not expecting much better for rental helmets in resort. This has been flagged previously so we are probably going to get helmets.
I haven’t skied for 10 years (I snowboard now) but if she’s weighting the opposite ski to you when turning one of you is doing it wrong I think…
Both parallel & snow plough turns you need the ski on the outside of the turn weighted, the one that will become the downhill ski by the end of the turn. And yes the snowplough will feel unnatural, you’re learning something new.
Stick at it, you’ll get there, kids learn quicker. You’ll provably have a couple more frustrating ways ahead of you and then you’ll be away. Enjoy it!
Decathlon for helmets.
And wear a helmet. Only time I've knocked myself out whilst wearing a helmet was on the slopes.... Going along at walking pace and caught the back edge of the board. Smacked my head on the snow, lay there for not quite sure how long. Had a massive crack on the back of the helmet.
Other reason for helmets is the number of other people out on the slopes.
Helmets have been commented about on this thread which has been very helpful. To put that particular point to bed, we have decided that we will be wearing helmets. I fell over getting off the ruddy button lift and ended up on my side with others stepping over me, so it’s a no-brainer for me.
Decathlon for helmets
I had to go to decathlon for ski trousers yesterday - very little stock of ski kit, no doubt season end change over. Used mountain warehouse mail order instead.
I have been told I am going ski-trekking, which will be fun as I can’t abide skiing.
How many of those of you who love skiing in the Alps have tried mountain biking outside bike parks in the Alps?
Still trying to puzzle this one out. I presume almost all, but could be wrong
I really enjoy skiing, but riding in the Alps is sublime.
No way is MTB of any sort as good as a decent off piste ski/ ride in decent fresh snow.
😉
Other reason for helmets is the number of other people out on the slopes.
This is one of the main reasons I wear one - protection from other folks helmets 🙄
Well that and being ****ted on the head by poma and T-bars at Cairngorm
Really curious that helmets are still being debated. I was in Flaine a couple of weeks ago and I would say 99% of people on the slopes wear wearing helmets. The only people who were not were all over the age of 60.
Even if you are confident in your own ability, its the other people on the slope you need to worry about.
I bought a Decathlon helmet with integrated visor. Don't make that mistake. We had one day of wet snow / drizzle. The water ran down the front of the helmet, behind the visor and pooled on top of the foam seal at the bottom of the vizor. Just buy a normal helmet with separate googles.
Helmet -Yes
Goggles - please get decent ones, persimmon (sp) are really good for iffy conditions, yellow if it gets mega flat (light) -with polarising this time of year.
Cheap ski wear - wasn’t TKMax the place to go, other than that Decathlon or the bay. I'd say try and get the most waterproof trousers you can as you'll be spending plenty of time on your butt!
Answer q above about MTB in Alps vs ski and parks vs natural - I’ve done lots of hike a bike (and boarding) stuff, generally avoid the parks unless I’m tired or just want a bit of a play. I've had fantastic holidays doing both, but there is just something about mountains in Winter that is uber fun. Austria is best for that I’ll add..
Didn't read the whole thread but am amazed the helmet debate hasn't reach full thread closing rage by now!
I took the kids to Mayrhofen first week of Feb and it was unseasonally warm. We had bag fulls of layers and barely used any of them (still a good idea to have them of course!). Since the kids are still growing (13 and 14) and this was their first trip I bought kit from eBay. Got some very nice kit for not much money, if I get my arse into gear and get it back on eBay I reckon I'll get most or all of my money back.
OP - take whatever layers you have, sounds like your jacket will do you. A few pairs of long socks and a couple of buffs. Winter biking gloves will probably be OK, especially if you are ski-ing versus boarding, maybe take some liners just in case it gets nippy. I wouldn't bother with goggles, just take the riding glasses you have. IMO goggles are complete overkill unless the weather is cold and/or you are off piste in powder.
Helmet, recommended as protection against others as much as yourself. I didn't wear one this trip because I was just pootling with the kids but I only saw a handful of folks on the mountain without helmets all week. Sensible folk.
Make sure you take factor 50 sunscreen for face, ears, neck, and some lip salve with SPF. Chances are you'll spend the week hotter than colder. Spring ski-ing is lovely, have a great time!
Just for reference - Glasses ok for skiing but not snowboarding. They'll get ejected at the first heel edge catch and you'll never see them again.
On the lessons front, it's completely unnatural as an adult to lean downhill, all of our risk assessment and brain training tells us to all to the closer ground (i.e. leaning uphill). Kids (although yours are more young adults I think) have a less concern of leaning downhill.
There's a lot that is counter-intuitive with skiing, I say that having learned as an adult.
As for cornering a friend recommended the idea of leaning down to pick up litter on the corner i.e. litter on the downhill side.
By the end of week 1 of lessons on my first holiday I was full of over confidence and flying down the mountain, I've had more lessons since though and correct some of incredibly crappy style.
+1 on ski v bike. I ride to stay fit for skiing!
Technique, loads of stuff on YT. Look at Deb Armstrong beginners stuff and Darren Turner.
No way is MTB of any sort as good as a decent off piste ski/ ride in decent fresh snow.
Yeah, but how often do you get those perfect conditions? Especially in the resorts.... Compacted, icy pistes with a load of other people, lift queues.
Only way to get those conditions semi-consistently is to live close to the slopes, be flexible/retired so that you can jump at the chance and be prepared to do some hiking/touring to get up high above the valley floor and away from the crowds.
Mate keeps posting pics from Tuxertal/Zillertal. He's got a hut at 1500m and goes on long tours in search for powder. He sent some pics of the valley and it was green with a few white stripes leading to the valley floor.
Bikes can be ridden in all weathers, get you further away from the crowds and if you do want to go to the bike park a lift ticket doesn't set you back 60+€ for the day....!
In related news....
Yesyerday was the first powder run of the season with enough base to make it safe here. Our Winter is getting like an English Summer, blink and you'll miss it.
Hardly any of Junior's ESF colleagues wear a helmet. I've seen him wearing one once this year for a high level class on an icy day. On a busy piste I rely a lot on my ears, even with the vents open I can't hear as well in a downhill helmet. Then there's risk compensation. In short I haven't put one on this year.
As for your worries about the snow plough, OP, don't worry about it feeling clumsy, it always will. Less clumsy more dynamic skiing is just a few lessons away but your instructor wants you to be able to steer and control your speed so you're safe before going further..
Edukator
Hardly any of Junior’s ESF colleagues wear a helmet.
Fashion
OK they're riding at a level way above most punters and have lots of skills and awareness in reserve but there's almost no downside to wearing one so it's fashion. Whether that's because they don't look good with shades or they give you a nasty tan line, it's just vanity.
Please don't worry about your frustrations regarding learning. As others have said its tricky as you're doing something completely new, using muscles you haven't used before (or hardly ever). It will come though and before you know if you'll be parallel skiing. Everyone wants everything to be quick and easy and skiing isn't for most people.
Just enjoy being in the fresh air and mountain scenery.
Oh and make sure your children learn the rules of the piste eg, looking before setting off on a slope, standing to the side of the piste while waiting/taking a breather, etc.
I could go into the full ESF no helmets logic, speeder, but it's great that you think it's vanity and fashion so keep thinking that way.
I'm not ESF but haven't put my goggles on this year yet in about 15 days, you probably think my false Coco Channel sunnies are vanity too. But there was no-one around to see me when I went out at the crack of dawn this morning to have the resort to myself before the lifts opened. I don't wear goggles on my bike or on the beach either though they would now doubt be more useful on the beach than the pistes on windy days.
Check out stats on how people get injured skiing. The vast majority do it all by themselves, collisions are a minority - around 10% depending on the study. And make sure you wear your helmet in your car on your drive to the resort, head injuries are the main cause of death in road traffic accidents. If 8 million people ski in France each year then proportionally more people get serious head injuries in cars. Now consider what would happen if everyone had to wear a helmet in a car all the time. On rally road sections we were asked to take our helmets off.
Anyhow a Canadian study found no difference in head injury rates between wearers and no wearers. Snowboarders had more head injuries than skiers and the decline in boarding has had a positive influence on reducing head injuries.
Conclusion - buy helmets for your kids and maybe put one on yourself if you intend to ski beyond your ability or it's particularly icy.
502 error double post on refreshing
I'm interested, does anyone have a view on whether skiers should wear helmets or not? 😉
As a snowboarder, i can't see that the risk of brain damage would cause any issue for most skiers.
Further damage just isn't possible.
😜
Fashion
OK they’re riding at a level way above most punters and have lots of skills and awareness in reserve but there’s almost no downside to wearing one so it’s fashion. Whether that’s because they don’t look good with shades or they give you a nasty tan line, it’s just vanity.
Utter rubbish.
I personally think one should wear a helmet (having been in an accident and banging my head, as did my friend the day before, when she got taken out by a ESF instructor).
But the OP has said he will wear one as will his family, this is a good decision IMO.
Got back (late) last night from a week in Passo Tonale, same hotel as OP's booked and I promised a check-back-in, so here goes.
It dumped it down with snow from the day we arrived until about day 4/5. The snow conditions on the pistes (and off) are fantastic and I don't think I've seen so much snow before. Visibility was pretty gash for much of the week; a couple of clear days showed the place off for just how beautiful the surrounding mountain range is though.
For us, family learning to ski, the place is ideal. All the slops in Passo lead back to the same main road through the village, meaning you really can't go far wrong direction wise even if you can't see as far as the next chairlift in front of you at times.
Hotel (Grand Paradiso) was largely great; room was good (I believe the basic rooms are very much basic though - we were in a 'Deluxe Twin Room with Balcony' if that help any. All of the staff were great, super friendly and helpful.
Food was good for a mass-buffet style - they're catering for a wide audience so bear that in mind, we ate well all week.
Location-wise, the hotel's about 10 mins walk (either by piste or road) to the main drag. And the main drag is not that main, it's a small village spread along the main road. We were with our 5 year old so were largely holed up at the hotel but there are quite a few bars/shops/restaurants to be found that all l0oked decent.
Some practical stuff you might find useful:
- The on-site ski shop is *slow*. As in, be prepared to wait at least an hour, maybe longer, whilst the two young lads move at glacial pace in no real sort of order or system whilst several moany faced Brits sigh and huff in impatience. It's a drag and a cack way to start the week but get it over with as soon as you can after arriving and it's done. Drop-off took 2 minutes at the end of the week. It's just how things work over there, they don't do systems or organisation so acceptance is key.
- Ski school day one seems like absolute chaos, but unlike the hire shop above - do bear with it as there is a system. Promise.
Head to the meet-up point (Sunday's lesson usually starts later, presumably to give everyone a chance to get their hire kit sorted out) and is at the bottom of the piste by the magic carpet lifts. You can walk along the road (faster) or along the snow (nicer in ski boots). Road - the easiest way in as just past the war memorial and through the car park. Along the snow: it's a wee bit past the huge construction crane and 'We Will Meat You Soon' cafe (which is good for morning coffee/snacks).
A man with a megaphone will shout instructions; the gist of which being - if you've never skiied before, join this group, if you've skiied a little, join that group, etc. From seeing the couple of 'have a go Harrys' we had, who counted the single run they wobbled down that morning as 'having skiied before', go lower if in doubt.
They'll get you to do a short run and then put you into the right group anyway.
Our instructor was fantastic, we learned a tonne in the 3 x 2 hour lessons with her. From chatting with others at the hotel, it seems like all the instructors were great so you should be in good hands there.
Crystal seems to have booked the 9-11 slot for their crowds; we tended to set off from the hotel about 8:30 which gave plenty of time to waddle along, bash ice off skis/boots etc and be ready.
The janky metal staircase next to the hotel is hilariously sketchy in ski boots. Take it easy and you'll be fine but there is an easier one about 50 yards along the road if you really don't fancy it.
Runs-wise, there's plenty to go at for beginners - your instructor will show you the best ones suited to your ability. Once you get your sea(ski?)-legs in, there's a lovely long Blue right at the far end of the resort - Blue 34 - served by Chair 24. The restaurant at the top of that chair is good for lunch and the views are stunning on a clear day. Good pizzas for about a tenner too.
We never made it down to Legno, or the ski-away day so can't comment on either. We were there to learn to ski (we're experienced snowboarders but going bi whilst our wee one learns) and Passo was ace for this. I think we'd probably get bored by the end of the week had we been on the boards all the time (or as an experienced skier) as it's not a vast resort but we enjoyed it at our stage of the game.
What else might be helpful...
The Spa/pool was quite nice, pool's small and gets busy with kids between about 2 and 5pm (no kids allowed from 5-8pm).
There's a well stocked and reasonably priced Spar shop at the far end of town (10-15 mins walk) which was good for snacks/chocs/fridge-beers etc if that's your thing.
Lunch is best found away from the hotel. There's a basic bar on-site which sells fairly expensive and miserable-looking thick slabs of lightly cheesed bread they call 'pizza' slices but they're a bit crap, really. The beers were decent in there though.
Italian's don't do organised or order - get used to this early. Lunch 'queues' can be exasperating if you try and fight it. Go with the flow, accept it could be so much quicker/easier/more efficient if they just 'XYZ'. It's the same everywhere; restaurants, airport etc. Getting annoyed by it's a fools errand.
If you're lucky enough to get a clear sky day, I'm assured the trip up the gondola/glacier is well worth it for the views. We tried twice but couldn't see a thing through the fog; your fortunes may vary. You can go up and down the gondola in normal footwear and no skis - if you're a beginner, you probably won't fancy the black run down much.
Anything else you need to know, just ask - happy to help if I can.
You should have a great time; we'd definitely go back.
Drat, just too late to edit the above post - was going to add some links for you.
Easier stairway / access up to the slopes (*which are literally up behind the hotel) is here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/FEvUBFpSdnNpVNNt5
Getting to Ski School (if walking along the road): https://maps.app.goo.gl/6ZysBjD5SJTvYnno7
Access via the car park between the war memorial and the chocolate shop and turn right once up onto the snow/slope.
Other bits that came to mind; the transfer takes about 2-3 hours. You pass Lake Iseo both ways (which is beautiful) - so if you can blag seats on the left (out) or right (back) you'll get a glorious view of it. We arrived in the dark and it was still glorious to see all lit up at night.
The windy road up the mountain got pretty exciting in the heavy snow. If you get car-sick, pop a travel sickness pill once you land.
Thank you for taking the time to post those tips and updates, very much appreciated.
How was the temperature, is it “cold”? We are all starting to getting a bit anxious about kit and it’s looming closer very quickly….
Nah, you'll be fine. It hovered between about -3 and +5 most of the week. You'll be working hard out on the hill, especially if you're learning and there are plenty cafes to hole up in at break/down time.
I'm normally fine with a base layer + jacket on the top and base layer + ski/board trousers on the bottom.
Walking along to the Spar shop at night in horizontal snow/blizzard was nippy but it was only 15 mins.
I'm a bit spoiled cos I bought a really good Goretex snowboard jacket about 15 years ago (pre-child when disposable income was still a thing) and generally run hot anyway but even the Mrs who's cold *all* the time wasn't bothered at all by it.
Half decent ski gear - Decathlon / TK Maxx / decent used from Vinted is all you need to be comfy and dry.
A couple of pairs of proper ski socks would be worth picking up if you've got time. Again, don't need to be fancy super-materials but the extra padding in the right places makes the boots a bit nicer.
My son and I went to Passo Tonale during the Half term week. First two days it snowed loads, then blue skies for the rest of the week - awesome. We stayed in Hotel Cielo Blu - its a basic hotel, clean, warm and food was fine. Perfect location - 5 mins from the ski school.
My son had 4 snowboard lessons at local dry ski slope ad this was his first Alpine trip. I had not snow boarded for 18 years (but had done a lot before that) and was linking turns in 30 odd seconds after being back on the board.
Getting organised into learning groups was a bit hard work, but once that was sorted the ski/snowboard school was great. As my son could snowboard to a limited extent he has put in the intermediate group and I just joined him but could have gone up a group. By the third day we were doing the easy reds.
I did a little video that I put on utube of the last few days of my sons progress.
Heading back next year with luck. I though Passo Tonale was really good and recommend it for beginners.
My first trip skiing I had an insulated jacket and boiled as you work hard when learning. As time goes on I've moved to long sleeve base and thinner jacket. Layering is your friend, you'll get it a bit wrong in the early days, but it's never too bad. I have had to upgrade gloves mid-trip once before, but that was min-Jan and high.
Ok, when you say jacket, sort of a shell weight, or padded? I have an old Animal snowboard jacket that is down filled. Used it at the indoor place for lessons with just a long sleeve base layer and it was warm enough but I don’t know if that is representative of the actual slopes.
We are hiring sallopetes and have bought some branded ski socks.