[Closed] Ed Milliband. A question for the public sector strikers...

I struggle with long sentences

Damned if he supports damned if he does not
Hence the focus group led opinion less vapid oxygen thief is left confused in a repeating loop of indecision ...this pretty much sums up everything about him tbh.
Not a great leader [ understatement of the day] wont last IMHO

I struggle with long sentences

Well you won't bloody learn anything then will you?

And then you'll be stuck in your low-paid job with only a 32" telly while everyone else has gone 50" Plasma.

And people will [i]laugh[/i] at you, for being so worthless.

You'll deserve it, too. 😐

I struggle with long sentences 😆

Thing is, this 'ladder' seems to be all about material gain, rather than bettering yourself as a person through education and being a valuable member of your community/society.

Agree with you there.

So much for "Education, Education, Education," ....err, excuse our choice of children's schooling. And now there is the equally absurd position where OE DC feels compelled to make the opposite choice. Madness!

And then you'll be stuck in your low-paid job with only a 32" telly while everyone else has gone 50" Plasma.

Nuts, that's me told...

How much do you think culture has changed because of the perceived safety of our society? Post-second world war (and I take no shame in using my grandad as the example here) people worked hard and diligently to rebuild a life and a country interrupted and shattered by seven years of war. When retirement came, they enjoyed caravanning and, even though I was younger then, I can't remember there being anything like as much fear being pedalled then as there was now.

Is fear leading to an increase in short-term goals and materialism in the young and, more widely, in the rest of the population?

Going back to the OP and EM's seeming reluctance to support tomorrow's strike, which part of the Labour Party's values, are the strikes infringing?

The values Labour stands for today are those which have guided it throughout its existence.
• social justice
• strong community and strong values
• reward for hard work
• decency
• rights matched by responsibilities

[i]Is fear leading to an increase in short-term goals and materialism in the young and, more widely, in the rest of the population? [/i]

Fear of what?

IHN - look at the polls - without a miracle Cameron will be out at the next election.

Oh...

Sorry didn't read all that, but yeah pretty much what Binners said somewhere up there ^^^ They elected the wrong brother ... seriously, you have to wonder, the man can't speak properly (I actually have to turn off/over when he comes on cause the lisp and comedy intonation is too irritating), looks permanently surprised and ultimately makes the party totally unelectable; although of course Labour are not alone in history for making these schoolboy errors.

Different point in the electoral cycle.

Its almost unprecedented how quickly lib dem and tory support has evaporated and how quickly in the electoral cycle

The did it on purpose. Labour don't want power at the moment, they are already being blamed for the current state of the economy. They do not want to be blamed for messing it up any further, as is they can shift blame to the Torys. They also don't want to make the hard decisions, regardless of your political views it is obvious to all that we are going to be feeling some pain for a while yet.
So, they throw Ed at the leadership knowing he's a nob and they are off the hook for a while until things get better/easier when they'll get a showman like Blair in again.

Its almost unprecedented how quickly lib dem and tory support has evaporated and how quickly in the electoral cycle

Try again

Labour will in the next election as the torys are going to continue to make the economy worse - the austerity measures are part of the problem not the solution. We see the classic and normal tory mismanagement of the economy with inflation and unemployment rising along with low growth.

Just hope we can avert the worst of the damage to the NHS and other public services.

Aracer - thats not the same part of the electoral cycle. 2006 labour had been in power 9 years

I'm with wrecker on this one. Labour are just waiting for Cons to do the dirty, maybe they will tidy up the economy blah blah blah but will hack so many people off they will come unelectable.

I suspect Ed M will bimble along for a couple of years until possibly it looks like we're on an upturn and the bigger Lab hitters will come out and try to grab the leadership.

Worst case is they spark a farce in the Labour party and voters see the squabbling, and Cons 'tough love' actually works and we sail into the next election on a positive note - that's when it might get tricky.

TJ - you're Ok, you will have full independence. But for the rest of us:

Labour will in the next election as the torys are going to continue to make the economy worse

So Labour screw up, the Tory's make it worse, Labour get back in and screw it even further...blimey we really are in trouble. So should we emigrate to Scotland or further afield?

Cept Labour din't really 'screw up', did they? They left the Health Service in a healthier state than when they took over in '97, and lots of other public sector things were greatly improved under Labour. People are quick to forget this.

That Bliar took us into needless conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, thus wasting billions and billions and billions of pounds, coupled with a Global Recession what was the Yanks' fault anyway, really din't help the bank balance, but thank Gawd we din't have to suffer the Tories through that period, cos by now we'd be going asking the Greeks for help if we had....

So Labour screw up, the Tory's make it worse, Labour get back in and screw it even further...blimey we really are in trouble

Lets see - under labour we had unprecedented period of stable and sustainable growth and we were weathering the global storm well. tories come in and immediately unemployment rises, growth slows as a direct result of their policies.

Cept Labour din't really 'screw up', did they?

Well not to begin with, perhaps, but ......they did a pretty good impression by the end.

But then again, the failure were due to external events eg, global financial crisis as Gordon and Ed kept reminding us, whereas the success was purely internal. Well done them. Makes you proud.

TJ - the correlation is so obvious, why do so many people not get it?

It's true. Things got significantly worse almost the exact moment the Tories took over. Plus there's a hell of a lot more public dissatisfaction, which is growing at an alarming rate, which simply woon't be happening if Labour were still in charge.

THM has any govt been any different?
Did george not blame the Euro crisis today at the start of his speech for his/the failings and for any potential drop in growth / recession here before it even happened.

You think if it turns out fine and it "works" will george
1. Than the euro zone for sorting it out for him
2. Take all the credit himself.
And if it does not turn out fine what will he do?

We should all be wary of using our politics to decide whether it "worked" or we are no better than the politicians.
Whomever was in power before or after would be struggling to some degree- there is no magic cure all

We should all be wary of using our politics to decide whether it "worked" or we are no better than the politicians.

2x in a day!!!

And we will be (Taleb's) lucky fool who, " benefits from a disproportionate share of luck but attributes his success to some other, generally, very precise reason." [Fooled by Randomness]

Again, Elfin its amazing that people don't get it, eh?

So TJ and Elfin - there is of course a major difference in the economic policies of the Labour Party and the Tories. Labour wanted to make cuts of 2.2% of GDP pa and the Tories 3.0% p.a. The fiscal tightening proposed by the Tories £24bn and Labour £19bn - a paltry (in rel terms) £5bn. So we have a £1.6bn economy and a massive argument between Balls and Osborne over £5bn of cuts.......remind me what that is, of course 1/3 of 1% of GDP.

So there we have it, the massive difference that leads nicely into the conclusion that, "under labour we had unprecedented period of stable and sustainable growth and we were weathering the global storm well. tories come in and immediately unemployment rises, growth slows as a direct result of their policies."

I think I will stick to the fooled by randomness idea!

I actually think Brown did OK during his time as PM. He clearly had his personality faults & wasn't very 'telegenic', but I think he really saw it as his duty to help the poorer members of society rather than just representing the interests of the rich and powerful. Unfortunately for him, the Murdoch press had it in for him (eg 'bigoted woman-gate') - Brown must be loving the current Murdoch crash'n'burn act. For my money, I wish Tony Benn was a few years younger & could take over the Labour leadership, then we'd see, oh yes, then we'd see...

Lets see - under labour we had unprecedented period of stable and sustainable growth and we were weathering the global storm well. tories come in and immediately unemployment rises, growth slows as a direct result of their policies.

lol

It would be good to see some strong leaders in Westminster from any party, the current three big hitters are fairly useless, more interested in not offending anyone than actually doing anything constructive.

Out of the present lot I'd probably vote Tory, although that would do nothing as I live in Newcastle.

I have a lot of respect for IDS, I don't think he was ever the right person to lead the party but he is a principled man and is doing a lot of work at present trying to push positive reforms.

OMG - just watched Rachel Reeves on Newsnight. Like the OBR, I think TJ and co need to revise their forecasts downwards.

She is Oxford and LSE educated and worked at BoE and HBOS - what the h**l happened to the poor lady?

I have a lot of respect for IDS, I don't think he was ever the right person to lead the party but he is a principled man and is doing a lot of work at present trying to push positive reforms.

+1 and Frank Field

I actually think Brown did OK during his time as PM. He clearly had his personality faults & wasn't very 'telegenic', but I think he really saw it as his duty to help the poorer members of society rather than just representing the interests of the rich and powerful.

he was the worst kind of social manipulator who clearly didn't understand anything beyond his own little bubble hence "bigotgate" etc

as for his management of the economy and "prudence", yo-yo income taxes, banishing "boom and bust" etc etc 🙄

IDS? Frank Feild? Both know nothing muppets with whose ideas are laughable

although of course Labour are not alone in history for making these (public) schoolboy errors.

FTFY

big_n_daft - Member

as for his management of the economy and "prudence", yo-yo income taxes.....

What's "yo-yo income taxes" ?

Have a look at what income tax did under Gordon Brown :

[img] [/img]

Are you suggesting that income tax went up and down under Gordon Brown ?

If so, following your claim on another thread yesterday that the trade unions donate £30 million plus to the Labour Party, it's clear that you're not very good when in comes to "facts" big and daft. Or is your political position so weak that you have to rely on lies ?

now you see 10% income tax rate
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/itarchive.htm

now you don't
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm#1

or did the 10% rate never happen? 😉

on Union funding
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/09/30/labour-party-funding-on-trade-union-life-support/

I can't find the reference that stated that affliations plus central donations plus local donations get close to £30million so could be complete bollocks

So you [i]do[/i] mean that taxes went up and down under Gordon Brown, with your reference to "yo-yo income taxes".

Yes, there was a starting rate of income tax as well as a basic rate, and this starting rate was scrapped. But you can hardly characterise Brown's time in office with income taxes going up and down.

So I'll settle for my second suggestion - your political position so weak that you have to rely on lies.

There's plenty to criticise Gordon Brown for without having to embellish it with lies.

The problem for someone like you is that is that any criticism of Brown is undermined by the fact that you're a Tory. In other words, you would screw up Britain even more.

and this starting was scrapped.

remind me, wasn't it introduced just before a General Election and scrapped just after one? 😉

The problem for someone like you is that is that any criticism of Brown is undermined by the fact that you're a Tory. In other words, you would screw up Britain even more.

seeing as you only know I didn't vote for GB that's a sweeping assumption

didn't you vote Green?

seeing as you only know I didn't vote for GB that's a sweeping assumption

I know that you argue like a Tory, it is a perfectly sensible assumption. Whether you vote actually vote Tory is irrelevant - do you vote UKIP ?

Your whole criticism of Brown is based on two things - yo-yo income taxes, and not banishing boom and bust. Your yo-yo income tax claim is false, and there's always been plenty of boom and bust under the Tories.

Yes I voted Green last election.

Well, I've just listened to the interviews with Ed Balls and George Osborne on R4 this morning and I have to sat that Osborne was the most credible.

I say this as a lifelong, hand-wringing, lefty-liberal, but if the election were tomorrow, I'd be voting Tory.

Not only that, but in the last week I've also, at times, agreed with ElfinFred and Hora. Dear God, what's happening to me?

IHN - look at the polls - without a miracle Cameron will be out at the next election. The majority of the public have seen straight thru him and Clegg. Labours lead in the polls is 5+ % and has been for months in most polls - enough to give a serious majority and the Lib Dems to be wiped out

Well it appears CMD really does turn water into wine. TJ - look at the polls. Are you still sure about the result of the next election?

I'm surprised to find this was only a month ago.

Doomed! [b]DOOMED[/b] I tell thee!

floating voters in fickle electorate shocker 😉
Which way would like to be violated today?

The people have spoken, the bastards."

Dick Tuck

Dick Tuck

who he?
Sounds like a pre-op tranny.

google it you know you want to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Tuck

Political prankster nixon era basically