70% of the population are overwieght or obese
And I bet about 90% of those people have no interest in riding a mountainbike of any kind any way so it's pretty irrelevant.
…TO buy soemthing in Eeb and of the spec/type i want i’m guessing i’m in the £7000 bracket.
But as much as the money bothers me, the warranty/motor/battery/computer stuff worries me more. If my Slayer/GT/141 goes wrong, it’s invariably something i can fix, at home with some tools and a bit of time…. but if it’s an Eeb, i could be without it for weeks, months even and even then, only if under warranty and covered… So… i’m struggling with the whole idea.
this is where i am. they are too expensive and will always be more expensive than a bike without a motor. they will never be as reliable and they will always be more difficult to fix. not to mention that they contain more parts that take more energy to produce and that are less recyclable than a metal bike.
and no matter which way you cut it, they do appeal (though not exclusively) to a different demographic than bicycles and this demographic brings a different set of values to the trails (though all of them)
additionally, i don’t believe that e-bikes will get people out of their cars because e-bikes aren’t warm or dry or as safe.
do i hate e-bikes/ebikers. no. i’m not sure i’d want to go on a group ride with them, unless it was a group of close friends where the occasion was more social.
will i get one? possibly. that said, i’m in my 50’s and i see people with at least 10 years on me riding bikes in the woods and a couple of guys so old that it is a bit unnerving. if i can stay healthy, i’ll still be able to ride.
i’m also wondering if the price rises that we see in mountain bikes aren’t partly due to covering the costs of developing e-bikes.
and finally, and slightly off topic, ebike racing. why? get a ****ing motorbike. which i’d be more likely to do than get an ebike at this point in time.
And I bet about 95% of those people have no interest in riding a mountainbike of any kind any way so it’s pretty irrelevant.
Sadly, a member of the 5% here.
Can you quote someone on this page who mentioned cheating?
It was a few pages back, I replied to it.
I get what you’re saying but I feel like I’m part of a community of folk who share the same interest.
Same here? : )
About entry cost, I don't think it stops anyone. I rode the sh** out of a £150 Raleigh for a year and a half inc 2 broken forks before I got a £500 Marin. Some mates had better bikes by then, some moved onto other things, some of us stuck with it. Would be different if some had e-bikes and others didn't but still, we navigate that kind of stuff all the time. All in all it was nothing to do with the value of the bikes and all to do with having mates to ride with, living within 6 miles of some good trails (we rode there and back mostly) and parents who'd give us lifts to the occasional xc race.
Start on a £400 Carerra, move onto whatever you like. If you get into it the bike isn't the decider in all this.
No @singlespeedstu - not "irrelevant", the full quote, in context is:
70% of the UK population are overweight or obese. Apart from transforming our food production chain (obeseogenic environment) we still need people to sweat more. The main reason the NHS is dying is chronic disease – which we’re desparately trying to find tablets for. But a good diet and excercise would fix it. It’s just that most people either can’t or won’t do that. Ebikes are neutral – it takes people from doing sod all to a little bit more than sod all
Relevant. Rare earth mining for batteries, high cost barrier for entry, increased trail erosion and conflict, marginal health benefits for the majority at best.
I get people love 'em. I think they may be dominant in the future. I stand by that not being a good thing overall - just another symptom of instant-pleasure easy-consumption society. They're the McDonalds of bikes. And considering McDonalds admitted in court in the 1980's that their burgers are 5% fecal matter I consider that an apt description.
🙂
one day we find non-ebikes have gone the same way as 26″ wheels.
Sure, you can still buy them but all the high end stuff is reserved for ebikes.
That's all a bit 'sky falling in'. They may not be the dominant high-end models in big brand line-ups but you'll always have smaller companies making lower-tech or lower cost of market entry frames and bikes that aren't powered. And XC race bikes + kit will be always be a strong (if smaller one day) market in Europe, fast riders with style like Nino Shurter and Jolanda Neff will inspire more riders for a while yet.
Even if all gears and wheels were e-bike spec I'd be ok with that, sounds like solid durable kit for my non-e bike..
Chevy
Of all the things to blame for the Ill health of some people I think ebike rank pretty much near the bottom.
additionally, i don’t believe that e-bikes will get people out of their cars because e-bikes aren’t warm or dry or as safe.
The general reaction from a non-rider who tries one could undermine your take there, or change your mind. I believe the majority of people can enjoy them and need to find a bit of fresh air fun in life. Making the pleasure of riding a bike less effort (or simply possible) on the hills is the game-changer there.
The cost of entry (£1200+ let's say, an entry price city e-bike) and motivation to make the initial change against life's inertia is the main barrier. The rest is infrastructure and car culture being against them in the UK. Weather rarely comes up - they're assuming they'd use the car/train etc then.
That’s all a bit ‘sky falling in’.
I hope so.
On the other hand, we've seen what happens when Giant and Specialized decide to move in the same direction. I remember reading Cy Cotic's account of having to scramble to get 650b bikes designed and built because if they ended up carrying on with 26" for the coming year they would end up with a years worth of stock that they simply couldn't shift.
With the eXC World Champs (an absolute joke, btw) and e-enduro, the SuperTaper ebike standard, I worry that the pieces are being moved into place.
Hopefully I'm just paranoid.
@singlespeedstu:
Of all the things to blame for the Ill health of some people I think ebike rank pretty much near the bottom.
I'm not blaming them for ill health. I'm saying they're not much of a help and come at a cost. The post and reasoning is pretty clear.
But for car-replacement / commuting etc. That's a benefit that can't be ignored.
Yes your previous post have been pretty clear that you think some people shouldn't be where they are.
Comparing ebikes to McDonald's is a pretty large leap of imagination.
It's seems beyond your comprehension that people ride for different reasons and it's really no one else's business how the choose to do it.
it’s really no one else’s business how the choose to do it
I get your butthurt about my opinion. But this is weak - because other people do have business in things that affect them. It's why we don't allow full-blown motorbikes on trails.
I concede that nothing is going to happen with ebikes, that they're going to be ubiquitous despite my opinions - but I don't really care if you don't like my opinion, I'm going to voice it, in the same way that you'll support ebikes.
A good analogue is AI - this ChatGPT thang and their ilk. It won't be long before music is made by machines - and consumers of that music won't care a jot. Machines are completely capable of writing and composing really good music - and the vast majority of consumers won't care. Musicians will tho (before they get told that anyone who can run an AI script to create music means they're a musician and have just as much a right to call themselves a musician as someone who's struggled to actually learn an instrument).
Why do you think I'm butthurt?
I ride all kind of bikes but just think it's a bit sad that some people think they have more of a right to be on a trail than others.
Must be pretty miserable for you being bothered by what others are doing.
You're spoiling your own day more than theirs.
I remember reading Cy Cotic’s account of having to scramble to get 650b bikes designed and built because if they ended up carrying on with 26″ for the coming year they would end up with a years worth of stock that they simply couldn’t shift.
Definitely not meant as a critique of Cotic from me here, but that's not something to blame big brands for. 650B was bubbling under the surface for a good few years with small brands before the tyre choices increased, big brands got onto it and the change really happened. A small brand has to be on top of the trends and be ready, to make a call on how early to move or even to kick-start the bandwagon. Big brands tend to jump on once it's all rolling and help accelerate it via their influence (weight).
eXC World Champs (an absolute joke, btw) and e-enduro
Gotta race bikes to sell them, says an industry that's pretty much a one-trick pony when it comes to marketing.
the SuperTaper ebike standard
Gotta carry on ignoring what a poor design the single-crown fork is as bikes get heavier and longer travel. Just use dual crowns... Oh, you can't - the downtube is now >100mm wide and you're all selling short offsets as the new thing so it won't all fit and still let you steer more than about 30 degrees. 1.8" lowers it is then... Luckily it'll be easy for a fork manufacturer to offer the same fork with a 1.5 crown or use a larger lower bearing / reducer for a frame.
I digress into details and let's not add standards angst to this one, the standards cycle will happen if you want the latest bike tech in any type of bike. We can't blame e-bikes : )
Jesus! It’s still going. Can we just agree on one thing, they look a bit shit don’t they. Like pregnant fish or a Fisher Price bike. My main gripe with them is still that they **** the planet more than normal bikes and that genuinely makes me a bit sad. People choose extra planet ****ing over putting a bit more effort in. Because let’s be clear the vast majority of folk won’t be riding with assist off at any point.
Just my opinion though no hatred. Just a little bit depressed by it.
chevychase
Free Member
@singlespeedstu and @cougarTake that 70% of the population are overwieght or obese quote and put it in it’s context (other than it being 100% factual). The NHS is on its arse because of that
The NHS is on its arse for many reasons. "Fat people" is surely at least third behind an increasingly aging population and Tory governance (though I'm guessing as much as you are).
Ebikes allow unhealthy people to do stuff previously only healthy people would do.
Yeah but, the difference is that you seem to think that this is a bad thing.
You're complaining about the strain on the NHS but you said yourself that you think the fatties should stay at home where they belong. You can't simultaneously whine about a health problem and also whine about a potential means to help tackle that problem. Pick one.
If you saw a 20-stone woman on an e-bike ride past you, what would you think? Would you call out to her?
Can we just agree on one thing, they look a bit shit don’t they.
That one Paddy was on earlier looked mint, I thought. I was pleasantly surprised.
Who’s Paddy? I’ve still not seen one that has made me go “Ooh” then again there’s only about three full sus bikes I like the look of 😂
It would probably be easier for many 'seasoned' MTBers, if these companies sold Frame/Battery/Motor, allowing you to build your own off the existing bike(s) they have. I've certainly got enough parts to build a 2nd if such was available.
they look a bit shit don’t they
That's fair, but they are getting better looking all the time.
Charging both batteries for tomorrows ride.
Hoping the antique bike riders won't be clogging the trails as I turbo it uphill multiple times
No real hate to them, but they are a bit of a liability in this day and age.
I think Chevy and Davey should head out for a ride together.
1 out of 10 for effort. On your post and your bike that is 😉
FFS Doom - you post too fast 😃
The YT Decoy looks ok IMO
There ain't an ebike yet that isn't dog ugly IMO 🙂
That YT looks like a pregnant fish and why is the BB area melted? Downtube is HUGE too.
There ain’t an ebike yet that isn’t dog ugly IMO 🙂
I've got a hunch you ain't no oil painting either sweetheart 😘
😉
What I can't get my head around from this thread, regardless of whether you love, hate, or are indifferent about ebikes, is that somehow an overweight guy riding an ebike can be construed as being no better than said overweight guy sitting on the sofa.
Madness
Oh that and the fact that on here of all places, it seems fairly acceptable to be derogatory about someone because of their weight
I think Chevy and Davey should head out for a ride together.
dave and chevy sound about as bad as each other.
Just ride your ****ing bike whatever it is.
interesting info. is this gathered from market research? you work for a bike company, don’t you?
Just ride your **** bike whatever it is.
I do. And generally mix happily with everyone out on the trail. Whether they're on a bike, whether they're walking, whether they're on the MTB unicycle who passed me when I was stopped the other day.
You appear to be labouring under the impression that giving an honest opinion on ebikes on a forum means some people run around spreading hate when out on their bikes - when nothing can be further from the truth.
it seems fairly acceptable to be derogatory about someone because of their weight
This is also a load of guff. Saying fat people are fat isn't derogatory especially in the context it was used. It is simply factual - that 70% of us are, and that it's not a good thing.
I think Chevy and Davey should head out for a ride together.
Saturday mornings at the Marin trail. It’s where all of the real riders hang out.
This is also a load of guff. Saying fat people are fat isn’t derogatory especially in the context it was used. It is simply factual – that 70% of us are, and that it’s not a good thing.
Don't take it personally, there has been chatter about fat biffers and fat gimps, or along those lines (not trawling back though now) and I don't think it came from you tbh
giving an honest opinion on ebikes on a forum means some people run around spreading hate when out on their bikes
How about behaving on here the way you claim to do out on the trail?
Just a though and may stop you coming across as a **** as well.
It's fine to have an opinion on anything but to claim that certain people don't belong just marks you out as a ****.
You appear to be labouring under the impression that giving an honest opinion on ebikes on a forum means some people run around spreading hate when out on their bikes – when nothing can be further from the truth.
But you seem to want to constantly repeat your strong dislike for ebikes, but don't want to hear from anyone 'evangelising' (your word) about them 🤷
You appear to be labouring under the impression that giving an honest opinion on ebikes on a forum means some people run around spreading hate when out on their bikes – when nothing can be further from the truth.
Isn't that exactly what you accused e-bike riders of doing not two pages ago?
@cougar:
Isn’t that exactly what you accused e-bike riders of doing not two pages ago?
No. YOU accused normal bike riders of spreading hate. I said in my experience ebikers evangelise and attempt to convert - I never said they spread hate - why would they? they're too happy! 🙂
You really need to read what's actually said, rather than react to how you feel about it.
Ebikes allow unhealthy people to do stuff previously only healthy people would do.
That isn't entirely true. I'm morbidly obese but perfectly capable of riding a normal bike around Ard Rock or doing an all day xc ride. It just takes quite a bit of effort so very few people who are, will.
@gribs - Agree. There are absolutely outliers. My o/h put on weight and was classed morbidly obese a few years ago. Because she's been cycling since she met me (couldn't go up a kerb before then) then she could do just that (although her mum struggles to walk a couple of k on flat ground through that alone). Since then she's lost 4 stone and everything is easier.
Nothing is hard and fast, there are always exceptions. But if we're talking on population scales there are absolutely themes 🙂
No. YOU accused normal bike riders of spreading hate.
I don't believe that I've accused anyone of anything?
"Normal" bike riders? You think e-bikers are abnormal, then?
I said in my experience ebikers evangelise and attempt to convert
And I asked you to quantify that claim. Twice now I think.
All I can add is:
There were some interesting points made on the previous page I thought. Maybe focus on them?
The madness continues.
Why do the ebike haters worry so much? It's been a common theme throughout these pages, "I'm just worried that..."
I think the word "worried" is being used in place of the word "bitter".
And I asked you to quantify that claim. Twice now I think.
I did in my original post, so I'm ignoring this 🙂
Ride what you want people (you will anyway, ofc) and have fun on the trails, which is what it's all about.
Maybe just be less touchy about the fact that some trad bikers hate eebs. People don't have to like what you do, do they? It's palpably *not* the "same sport" - so stop trying to pretend it is, then everyone will get along fine.
