Forum menu
I call bullshit.
If they've not been paying their taxes AND it's a value worth chasing, they may get a 'call'.
Otherwise, NP.
Wouldn't worry too much if its second hand stuff you own but keep records if buying and selling for profit.
I call bullshit.
I don’t I bet HMRC had a go at eBay, eBay just run a ver simple report based on a rule that has been set by HMRC M, covers their back and now the upstanding citizens have to declare their income correctly or go to jail
If the family member is running a business then fair enough. But 39 items in 9 months? Surely they would need to be very high value items.
This was widely reported earlier in the year and definitely not BS. However, providing they/you haven't sold more than IIRC £2k in the financial year it won't require a SA tax return or any real action on your part.
No-one knows how it's going to work come Jan 31st given this will be the first year HMRC have had the data from eBay and try and collect revenues. However this is somewhat helpful (ignore the IMO confusing title):
No tax changes for online sellers - GOV.UK
I thought there was a value limit but obviously there's no tax liability on second hand goods unless you're running a business.
Surely HMRC can't tax having a clear out.
They're 6" Dr Who figures! My lad collects them so my better half buys other collections, takes out the ones that he wants and sells on the surplus. Was under the 30 limit until a load of old Barbie stuff that my daughter had suddenly all got bought.
She has records if they ask.
Not exactly a business.
Surely HMRC can’t tax having a clear out.
It's income, pure and simple.
income, some of which needs to be declared to HMRC, some doesnt, worth checking/knowing
So you pay income tax on your earnings, then pay VAT on the things you buy with that taxed income, then taxed again if you sell them on?
**** me.
Keeps HMRC too busy to chase tax dodging billionaires I guess.
Chase the little guy.
So you pay income tax on your earnings, then pay VAT on the things you buy with that taxed income, then taxed again if you sell them on?
No.. you would be taxed on the profit, if the total profit in a tax year is above £1000
I thought it was profit amount over 1.5k not quantity of items sold.
It’s income, pure and simple.
What if you're selling at a loss?
Also applies to Etsy and other online marketplaces. I've now closed my online business that I've been running since 2018 and just starting to make a profit - before it was just paying me back what it owed me. Fortunately, I now do enough business locally that I don't need an online presence, plus not having the hassle on cost of packing and posting orders.
It does be the question as to how much effort this requires and revenue it creates for HMRC in comparison to going after large scale tax-avoidance.
I stopped selling when I got to £1600 this year and will start again in Spring. This was well known about and eBay are now having to inform HMRC on sales just the same as banks have to send detail on interest.
Difference with eBay is that you could presumably show all the sales as losses (which they are for me, i.e. I buy a bike part for £100 and then sell it for £60) but keeping all the receipts and trying to prove that is more effort that I am willing to put into it.
Not exactly a business.
It sounds like one. Buying to sell.
It does be the question as to how much effort this requires and revenue it creates for HMRC in comparison to going after large scale tax-avoidance
Not much effort, assuming they automate matching EBay’s databases with their tax return database and automatically generate a threatening letter where they find a substantial gap. But my guess is they are more focused on getting tax from people who have been running previously under the radar EBay businesses rather than a few hundred quid off the average tax payer.
Chase the little guy.
<i>Why are you wasting your time on people doing a few mph over the speed limit when you should be catching rapists and drug dealers, constable? - </i>probably not a popular attitude on this forum.
Remember all the scalpers who are making 10's of thousands of £ tax free ? And people who hoover up anything worth buying (before anyone else gets there) at a boot fair to hawk online ?
I hope that this change picks all of them up and makes them pay the tax they owe. When ps5's and Nvidia 4xxx series graphics cards were impossible to get- there were some sellers on ebay making 100% profit and they were selling hundreds online (from the buyer ratings)
Why should they not pay their fair share of tax ?
I think some people are getting a bit excited.
There are two thesholds points.
The sales thresholds that trigger ebay sending data to hmrc.
Either volume if sales -30
Sales value - 1740squids
As a private seller neither of these mean you need to pay anything.
Unless you are trying to hide a business (selling for profit).
You sell items linked to capital gains limits etc.
Ebay has surprisingly clear advice.
So. if you sell one half decent mountain bike on ebay for more than £1.5k you going to have to do a tax return? Even if its to say, I bought it for 3k, used it for a couple of years and then sold it? So you are going to need to hold onto the receipt to prove to HMRC you;ve sold it at a loss?
Surely not?
I haven't for some time, but I used to trade up / sell loads of bike parts several years back - it would be very easy to get to a few grand of sales (not profit) in a calendar year
Massively misunderstood by several above. It's only if you're trading that you have to declare this income.
So you could sell off £100,000 of your old junk and have nothing to declare to HMRC.
Or you could sell £2k of stuff you're buying and selling to make a profit and you would need to declare that.
Massively misunderstood by several above. It’s only if you’re trading that you have to declare this income.
So you could sell off £100,000 of your old junk and have nothing to declare to HMRC.
Unless you've got a link from HMRC/GOV.UK stating the above, I'm not convinced it's other posters doing the misunderstanding in this thread...
So you could sell off £100,000 of your old junk and have nothing to declare to HMRC.
Not sure that is correct but even if you don't have to declare you are still going to get it questioned by HMRC as they don't know you just sold £100,000 of old junk - they just see the £100,00
this was all widely reported a year or so ago, this is a usefull article UK digital sales reporting | eBay
each platform are legally required to report name address and sales totals for each calendar year in which a seller has sold over 30 items and/ or £1,740. ebay had stated it was only for new customers, from jan-dec2024, then all customers then on.
Ebay also state for sellers who have taken considerable Revenue, they will request an National Insurance number, otherwise they may withold funds, they will use this in returns to hmrc [to make the Join of datasets easier].
vinted will also join in from jan 2025, thus first reports from jan2026 (covering sales of previous calendar year jan-dec)
my understanding the platform has to tell you they have sent the info and the sales volumes/value.
my recommendation;
either keep under the thresholds on each system, or keep records and await a letter for HMRC, although i really can't see them sending letters to those who have sold 50 item for a few Hundred quid..
they want the big sales, where they can hammer the seller with VAT on top of the income tax they owe
i've sold a couple of my bikes this year, so hit £1700 on 25 items, i've downloaded my sales report and added a few receipts. for the big ticket items.
i notice ebay reports dont state New/Used, which is surprising. i think HMRC will get them to add that flag soon.
It’s all here. Basically buying items then reselling them is trading and selling old items you’ve now made a profit on may attract tax too.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-tell-hmrc-about-your-income-from-online-platforms
@Harry_the_Spider its not reported by the Tax/ financial year April-March .
this digital sales reporting is done by calendar year ie Jan-Dec where the limits apply. 30 items and £1740
in theory you could sell 29 items in April24-Dec24 (£1.7k) and 29 in Jan25-mar25 (£1.7k), ie 58 in the tax year and no requirement for ebay to report these sales.
it is for HMRC to review the datasets , load them into the system and decide who they will write to and then assess.
no requirement for a tax return as yet, although the way labour are going at it, we all soon may need to
i notice ebay reports dont state New/Used, which is surprising. i think HMRC will get them to add that flag soon.
Why? If the volume, amount and pattern of sales suggest you're selling like a business, marking everything as used on selling platforms isn't going to be valid way to try and trade under the radar. Say you're operating as a reclamation yard as a side job to your main job as a chippy or stone mason... everything would be sold as second hand, but that wouldn't be hugely relevant as far as HMRC are concerned.
@ampthill, again used goods should be fine, but if you are selling used wheels often, then it would be in your interests to keep records. emails / purchase history . so that you can prove the wheels are your own property and you are not buying second hand goods on FB marketplace for £100 and selling on ebay for £200..
a couple of sets of wheels every few years no problem, 10 sets of wheels in a tax year when hitting Digital Sales Reporting numbers (30 items/ £1740,) would be a big red flag.. will be viewed as trading
She has records if they ask.
Not exactly a business.
You say that but,
I had a mate come visit a few months back who I've not seen for years. He was telling me, his lad has a hobby where he picks up Hot Wheels cars from 'home bargain' type stores and flips them on ebay for some pocket money. I don't know how old the kid is exactly, early teens I'd guess. Apparently it's a bit like Pokemon, there are some sought-after models if you know what you're looking for, sets to be completed and suchlike. My mate goes "I'll just check what's in his account..." he'd made over seven grand!
Surely it profit. Buy pair of wheels for £500, sell with dents £200. You owe nothing?
Correct - the tax liability is about profit.
But EBay, Vinted, etc don’t know how much profit you make on each sale so their reporting thresholds to HMRC are about sales revenue. Whether you then pay tax depends how profitable the sales were.
The only thing that has changed is that eBay are now communicating with HMRC. If you are a business you always needed to declare the income and pay tax on profits even if its just a little side business.
I'm still confused when man maths and buying & selling stuff for personal use becomes taxable.
I often sell one bike to buy another, but prices of stuff 2nd hand fluctuate up and down.
During covid, you could have made a "profit" selling a bike, but if you bought a replacement bike 2nd hand, thats also going to be expensive, so you're back to square one again. But taxman might say thats profit?
My guess is that HMRC's lower limit for investigating stuff is going to be quite high.
My guess is that HMRC’s lower limit for investigating stuff is going to be quite high.
I suspect you're right. Just because a selling platform is required to send your data to HMRC doesn't mean you've yet triggered any flags tax wise. The thresholds are just there so that not everyone's data needs to be routinely handed over. Too high a threshold, and sellers could just use multiple platforms, staying under the limit on each, and rack up some sizeable sales and profits combined across them (and through other channels) without HRMC having any data given to them.
Buy pair of wheels for £500, sell with dents £200. You owe nothing?
Yes thats how I read it.
But. If you sold a significant amount of bike stuff on ebay you are going to have to prove to HMRC that you didn't make a profit with reciepts and the like. Hence me saying does that mean you need to do a tax return just to prove you owe nothing, seems the answer is going to be yes.
So, sell a few forks, wheels and a frame in a year - you are probably going to need to do a tax return to prove you didn't make a profit,
If thats right its going to force a lot of people who buy and sell for a hobby to do tax paperwork to prove they aren't traders / making profit. Glad I managed to kick the habit of always having to have the latest kit
what about historical gains? i.e you buy a wheel set above for 500 quid and it becomes ultra desirable in the 10 years you've had it. its now worth 2k. You've got no proof of purchase or anything.
During covid, you could have made a “profit” selling a bike, but if you bought a replacement bike 2nd hand, thats also going to be expensive, so you’re back to square one again. But taxman might say thats profit?
A single bike you got lucky buying and selling several years apart would probably be below the thresholds.
99% of people aren't going to be affected, they'll have sold stuff at a loss.
This is only going to catch people who say their hobby is "not exactly a business" when for years they've been telling their mates that they've subsidized their bike riding by buying several full bikes a year and splitting them to make a profit (or selling £7k worth of matchbox cars, blimey!).
Bear in mind ebay is chock full of "not exactly a business" sellers, selling stuff they've either made, bought to sell at a profit, or imported from China, and making a 2nd income out of it. That'll be who HMRC are interested in.
Like most tax news, expect a whole load of people who should have been or will soon be paying more tax to make a lot of noise about how you as someone who was never going to be paying this tax should be worried and campaigning against it.