If all the conflicting nutrition information wasn't enough to put your head in a spin now we've got to not eat to control are IGF1 levels.
What I want to know though is does calorie restriction have to be as extreme as just 600 calories a day if you're burning a couple of thousand through exercise??
I missed the programme, but I remember seeing another one on calorie restriction to increase life-span. Seemed a pretty miserable form of existence though. IIRC they'd isolated the magic chemical which does it, but I imagine like most of these magic chemicals, life will conspire to outwit them.
Didn't watch this, but based on a colleague's description I will be viewing via iPlayer...
Again, from my colleague's report, sounds like a resounding endorsement of the...
...[b] PALAEO DIET[/b]
just live on protein supplements and the endorphins from getting too close when stalking, you'll be alright
To continue the above theme,
6 years ago we had a 100th birthday party for a relative. He was in fine form, and in an after dinner speech put his longevity down to his time in Italy during the war. A time where he witnessed the poverty and diet of the Italian peasants. Since then he has eaten very little meat and drank very, very little alcohol.
His son, with whom he has a "sparring" relationship, retorted that if he was going to have to give up on meat and booze, then he'd forego his 100th...!
Anyway, this year was birthday No. 106, and he is still of agile body and mind. Your typical small, wiry, bright eyed type of person.
Wasn't this the same guy who did a programme earlier in the year about how just 3 seconds of HIT every 6 months was equivalent to spending 5 hours every day riding a bike.*
He should be awesome by now.
*figures supplied from the daily mail absolute fact generator.
The OP's summary is inaccurate. Needs more work for more attention.
Ian - that's what I thought it would be... miserable. In reality following a 5 normal, 2 fast weekly pattern didn't look so bad.
Even the calorie restricting guy (who seemed a bit of a freak) was eating 1900 calories a day. 51 and BF of 11%!
The thing the program suggested was that eating a lot of protein increased you IGF1 production so increased the aging process.
The OP's summary is inaccurate. Needs more work for more attention.
If it works on mice...
so eating during the week, fasting on weekends? could you not get those 48 hours of fasting through sleep and gaps between meals?!
I think it's a bit more than just fasting between meals Philly. I've been doing that all my life.
Mice are complicated though.
If I buy a sugared mouse it tastes great!
But if I sugar a mouse the cat's found it doesn't taste half as good. Yet the latter is free-range so should be more yummy.
It also reduced his blood glucose level from borderline diabetic and well as decreasing his bodyfat level. (though, that measurement was done using magic bathroom scales).
oh. i snack between meals and have a mini-fast between snacks, i've decided that Mars 'refuel' milkshakes are a perfectly decent drink to consume between meals and snacks.
😆
DD - I thought he looked a lot better as a result of fasting. Ian, it was the 5 sec exercise guy.. that was too much for him apparently so he's going for this instead... sounded like he would stick at it too.
@DrMichaelMosley: @DrMichaelMosley do you exercise on fast day? Is 600 intake NET of calories burned through exercise?” I walk, cycle and resumed HIT
It also reduced his blood glucose level from borderline diabetic and well as decreasing his bodyfat level.
Yeah he was claiming his 3 seconds on an exercise bike was doing the same, so how come he's still bordeline diabetic and fat?
Unless of course he made both programmes in parallel, which would kinda invalidate any conclusions he draws.
/Edit Ah just saw your other post. He claimed that he was going to stick to that too. I give him 2 summer months of will-power 🙂
Didn't know this was on so will have to catch up on it. But 600 calories a day?! What was he eating to make up the calories?
is there a quick summary? That exercise program had about 5 minutes worth of information spread out over an hour! I can't be bothered with that in these days of wikipedia synposises.
Is it basically, fast for one day and you'll live longer?
I guess it'd save quite a bit of time too. I wonder if i could get all my eating done on monday, all my sleeping done on tuesday and a bit of wednesday, then have the rest of the week free?
What was he eating to make up the calories?
Highly nutritious low calorie stuff.. fruit and veg.
HoratioHufnagel - there are lots of ways you can fast and get benefits. The most practical being eat normally for 5 days and then eat just 600 (per day) calories for 2 days. That just about covers it.
I dunno, with all the cynicism surrounding Horizon these days, anyone would feel a fool for taking it as presented. Essentially, research indicates that periods of fasting (or reduced calorie intake) reduce bodyfat percentage, levels of hormone IGF1, blood glucose level and overall weight. He tried a 5-2 approach. It reduced his bodyfat percentage, he lost a stone and his blood glucose levels dropped to a point where he didn't have to take tablets to control it.
does the 2 days restricted calories have to be consecutive?
Not as foolish as the cynics will feel lying in their death beds whilst you do a little jig and then head out for another marathon...
Anyone tempted to try the fast for 2 days thing? Didn't he lose almost a stone in a five week period after doing it?
does the 2 days restricted calories have to be consecutive?
Why don't you tweet him and ask?
does the 2 days restricted calories have to be consecutive?
No. He didn't do it that way anyway.
cos my tweets are protected and he'd have to follow me to read the question.
was 2 days the maximum fastage allowed or could you do a 5-600 calorie day on alternate days?
Not as foolish as the cynics will feel lying in their death beds whilst you do a little jig and then head out for another marathon...
Providing the marathon's no longer than 30 seconds 😀
The aim was supposed to be 2 consecutive days but he didn't manage that apparently.
My name is Martin Berkhan, and I have been banging on about this sort of stuff for ages.
Initially he fasted for three and half days. Then it was suggested he try a one on, one off ratio but he didn't think he could commit to it. So he opted for 5 - 2 instead.
cos my tweets are protected and he'd have to follow me to read the question.
Not if you tweet him.
What I want to know though is does calorie restriction have to be as extreme as just 600 calories a day if you're burning a couple of thousand through exercise??
Maybe an iDave style 'eat whatever you like within 30min of excercise' would give most of the bneifit.
I've not seen the program but..........
Isn't IGF triggered by ceasin in the diet. i.e. milk? That's why babies grow quickly and it's such a good recovery drink and bodybuilders folow routines like GOMAD?
i think i could do a one-on-one-off pattern. i'm going to maybe possibly commit to giving it a try.
calorie limit on 'off' days?
No limit on the non fasting day. Trials showed that people tended to 110% of a 'normal' intake.
So just fruit and veg? No fish?
i think i could do a one-on-one-off pattern. i'm going to maybe possibly commit to giving it a try.
Could you do that for the rest of your life though?
I'm certainly tempted by trying the easier 5-2 ratio as not eating for a couple of days during the week whilst at work wouldn't be too difficult.
I'd do it too, but I've run out of different coloured pencils for my training calendar.
Reading his tweets he says he eats fish on his fast days.
Low calories + highly nutritious.
I'd do it too, but I've run out of different coloured pencils for my training calendar.
Red and yellow can be combined to make orange, if that helps.
Oranges, only allowed during the week, tho.
You can get brown if you add all the crayons together.
Could you eat the crayons?
@DrMichaelMosley "Could you eat the crayons? "
Not on the fast day... too many calories for too little nutrition.
Could you eat the crayons?
Low calorie so you can eat a lot of them.
Not on the fast day... too many calories for too little nutrition.
Low calorie so you can eat a lot of them.
We must get our science from different sources. 😉
HoratioHufnagel - Member
is there a quick summary?
Middle age non-exercising male who eats a large propertion of his calories as "burgers and donuts" gets a few blood tests and thinks he's going to die of cancer.
Jetsets around US and tries various fad fasting regimes whilst admitting he doesn't have the willpower to stick to any diet plan for longer than it takes to make a program for tellybox.
Next day, popular press and keyboard cutout people seize upon this as the latest way to get "something or nothing"...
..same old, same old - send me £200 and I'll do you a detailed personalised summary 😆
Oooh you horrible cynic hilldodger.
There's a couple of forumites that have been doing forms of IF for a while. Hopefully they'll be able to add something...
The Southern Yeti - Member
There's a couple of forumites that have been doing forms of IF for a while. Hopefully they'll be able to add something...
...hopefully something useful, maybe with full blood analyses and physio tests to back up any tales of awesomeness 😉
i've just had my 600 calories by eating 2 lemon cheesecakes.
can i stick to just water for the rest of the day.... there's only one way to find out.
Hopefully they'll be able to add something...
They would do, but they're too weak to reach the keyboard.
Years ago when I used to be in training this fasting lark was all the rage (and I'm talking 20years ago now) can't say it's ever done me any harm (though some may say different) Every fourth day we would fast for a full 36 hours and restrict ourselves to 2 ltrs of water only. It was hard during summer but way harder during winter months. I think my body did have time to absorb all nutrients I’d eaten during that period of training and any “waste” products produced were mainly small and infrequent, which meant to me I was absorbing most of what went in my mouth rather than not digesting all of it but chucking most of it out the other end.
Can't say I follow any regime now except drink beer and eat pies.
Can't say I follow any regime now except drink beer and eat pies.
I'm trying that fad diet right now, how long till the weight gains reverse and I start loosing the pounds?
By the end of the program, esp with the 5 -2 diet thing, it seemed to me that it wasnt eating less made us super healthy just that eating lots makes us unhealthy.
Seems to me that having some days when you dont get enough, or at least not too many, calories should be the default (ie at some time in the year people should struggle to eat enough).
It almost seems like there's some sort of self destruct mechanism for times of plenty built into mammals (at least). This would make sense from an evolutionary viewpoint as if there is plenty of food you might as well try and get through as many generations as possible so the species keeps evolving.
This tallies in nicely with my theory that pies are an aphrodisiac.
God I watched this and as soon as he went to California I turned over. I had a couple of them over last year they were absolutely convinced that some food would kill them and eating the right ones would make them live forever as 20 year olds
What's this obsession with living longer that we're all supposed to have?
Thanks hilldodger - I didn't watch it and am glad it lived down to my (low) expectations.
It's a bit like at the Dr's checkup when they suggest giving up beer/biscuits/the occasional smoke to live longer;
those extra 10 years of senile dementia in a care home are just gonna be sooooo worth it....
Ahh but fasting prevents dementia too...
Apparently, fasting prevents dementia as well.
Yeah, I heard that fasting prevents dementia.
I heard that fasting can prevent dementia.
Purple sausage washing machine biscuit monkey.
Why are we talking about dementia?
i heard washing biscuits prevents dementia
How fast to prevent dementia? Is it on Strava?
Fasting has been a cure all for thousands of years...
I just dont get the obsession with longevity, obviously nobody wants to die early but in my job i see a huge number of old people....by and large their quality of life is poor....kept alive my so many meds they must rattle when they walk, loss of memory, loss of continence, loss of mobility etc etc....it doesnt look fun, most people i know who work in health care dont want to live like this, the consensus seems to be a desire to retire healthy, enjoy a good 10-15 years of retirement and then die suddenly....even some of the oldies i see at work tell me they dont want to live anymore!
why do they keep taking the meds?.by and large their quality of life is poor....kept alive my so many meds they must rattle when they walk, loss of memory, loss of continence, loss of mobility etc etc.
....fear of death maybe? its very much a western thing.
Maybe its the lack of genuine religious belief that there is something after death, i have no idea and am not religious myself....but most people arent good with the idea of death in this country.
we all know we are going to die...weird to think that one day I will draw one last breath.but most people arent good with the idea of death in this country.