MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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When I first heard this story I just assumed the guy had given good reason for concern to the crew.
However reading Easyjet's version of events it looks reasonably consistent with the guy's. It appears the suspicions of one passenger got him an interview with Italian Police. (Although him losing his rag at that point probably made the interview longer than it needed to be.)
Anyone have any useful insights into what actually happened?
http://m.crawleynews.co.uk/Man/story-29064793-detail/story.html
Nothing really to do with Easyjet, and pretty much fully Italian authorities.
Maybe she 'knew' someone?
tbh For years I fly to Italy on business every few weeks, so I could imagine it occurring especially if the guy pulled off didn't speak Italian and the one who complained was.
Not just an easy jet or Italian problem: http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Man-thrown-National-Express-coach-Bristol/story-28312057-detail/story.html
Nothing really to do with Easyjet, and pretty much fully Italian authorities.
If he was already on the plane then I don't see how the police can become involved without being requested by the easyjet crew.
There must be more to it than his side of the story, I really hope there is more to it than his side of the story, is it really possible that the crew and authorities would act in such a way just because another passenger feels someone is a bit foreign looking.
Yes, and it's happening all the time - people being thrown off flights for speaking in a foreign language, looking at something written in Arabic on their phone, "looking suspiciously" at cabin crew, etc etc.
s it really possible that the crew and authorities would act in such a way just because another passenger feels someone is a bit foreign looking.
Yes
Yes yes sure it is....lets single out the one 'foreign looking' person in AN AIRPORT. 😆 You guys should get out more.
it's happening all the time
source?
needs explainingconcerns about his [b]behaviour[/b]
Yes, and it's happening all the time
Really? I fly a lot and I have seen or heard of anything like this.
Anyone ever spent much time in Italy or working with Italians? Your "typical" Italian makes Nigel sound like Jeremy.
Or the guy thrown off a flight because another passenger thought he was chatting to ISIS....
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/man-removed-easyjet-flight-luton-prayer-message-phone
source?
Removed for looking at a flight attendant:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/muslim-women-removed-from-plane-for-staring-at-flight-attendant/
Removed for unknown (possibly having a beard):
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Terrorism-Act-Derby-man-claims-taken-flight/story-28692621-detail/story.html
Removed because they made people uncomfortable:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/us/muslims-sikh-sue-airline/
http://www.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/muslim-women-removed-from-flight-for-making-attendant-uncomfortable.html
http://www.tesfanews.net/easyjet-escorted-man-flight-passenger-feel-not-safe/
Etc etc.
Millions of people fly every day. It's not happening "All the time". People are ejected off flights for all sorts of reasons. I've seen people frog marched off planes before. Not sure why, but one thing is for certain - airlines and airport security authorities are, quite rightly, very risk averse so if anyone were to rase a concern of any nature then it is the obligation of the airline or airport security service to investigate it and not to dismiss if off hand. Obviously they are not going to want to delay the flight while they investigate any concerns or complaints, so the person subject to the concern raised will most likely be taken off the flight.
Millions of people fly every day. It's not happening "All the time".
I think something that happens regularly can definitely be described as "all the time" - what you mean is it only happens to a small proportion of passengers.
Which isn't the point, is it?
The point is you are not comparing the numbers involved with other people also being ejected for whatever reason. You are still only quoting a handful of instances.
How many incidents of racial profiling are acceptable?
people being thrown off flights for speaking in a foreign language, looking at something written in Arabic on their phone, "looking suspiciously" at cabin crew, etc etc.
At times like this we need Constable Savage to protect us:
I'm kinda torn on this. I mean, racism is bad mmkay. But I think given the choice between offending someone and being blown up at 40,000' I think I'd be leaning towards "fine, be offended." And I can understand why airport security might be a bit twitchy at the moment; it's a judgement call, and the consequences of getting it wrong are pretty grave. The alternative headline to "man being detained because they thought he was chatting to ISIS" is "man actually chatting to ISIS and no-one intervened just in case he wasn't."
I suppose it's all about reasonable grounds, isn't it. Picking on someone because they have a rucksack and a tan is bang out of order, but I'd have thought shifty behaviour would be relatively noticeable / have other shibboleths?
I think I'm not saying it's right; rather, I'm saying it's really difficult.
It's a common problem
You're probably absolutely right, the police and airport authorities should never apply common sense to issues like this, we should be more like America, where in an effort to be absolutely fair to everyone, the TSA pull aside [url= http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/airportmedal.asp ] 86 year old white men as suspected terrorists because they were carrying a suspicious five pointed piece of metal with a blue ribbon on it[/url]
From recent events we should probably be more worried about the country we are flying over, their neighbours and the mental health of the pilots and the quality of work done by the ground crew.
Airport security is mostly pure theatre designed to reassure and encourage shopping.
From recent events we should probably be more worried about the country we are flying over, their neighbours and the mental health of the pilots and the quality of work done by the ground crew.Airport security is mostly pure theatre designed to reassure and encourage shopping.
Spot on.
I'm kinda torn on this. I mean, racism is bad mmkay. But I think given the choice between offending someone and being blown up at 40,000' I think I'd be leaning towards "fine, be offended."
That would be a valid consideration if there were any actual connection between the "being a dick" and the "greater security".
Rather sad. Why not just give anyone who isn't white a separate plane to travel on. Least they can all get offended on mass at the same time.
(More convenient for the idiots out there :roll:)
Rather sad. Why not just give anyone who isn't white a separate plane to travel on
Hmm, would have made going on holiday as a kid a pain, although I'm sure my mum would have enjoyed leaving us with my dad for the flight 😉
An Asian colleague said she hasn't avoided being taken aside for extra questioning in the last ten years. Typically with at least one foreign holiday (to Florida, Mexico, Thailand, Spain etc, not Syria!) per year over that time. She's not even Muslim, so it's lazy/ignorant 'profiling'!
There seem to be people who don't see how/why the 'profilees' get annoyed by it. If drink driving was shown to be more of a problem amongst middle aged Audi driving white men than anyone else, then the police might start pulling over middle aged men in Audis, (possibly on their way bag from 'Degla with the Five on the roof rack ...)
So you get pulled over, licence, MOT, insurance get checked, then you get breathalysed. All fine, you carry on with the journey. It's half an hour gone, but not the end of the world.
And then Monday morning rolls around. You start your journey to work. and after five minutes you're pulled over again. Licence, MOT, insurance, mobile fingerprint device to check you're really who you say you are, breathalyser, drug test (seeing as we've already stopped you sir). All clear. Off you go. Two stops is bad luck, but hey.
Monday evening, you pull away from the work car park and don't even make it to the end of the road before you see the blue flashing lights behind you again.
Tuesday's okay, but Wednesday and Thursday you get stopped again. And again on Sunday when taking the kids to football practice.
The same thing happens again and again.
And if you moan to anyone about it they just tell you "well, they're only going after the most likely offenders....it's a bit of inconvenience for you but it's there to keep us all safe". It would annoy me, that's for sure.
As for the "you'll have to leave, you're making other passengers uncomfortable"
"how?"
"....By being brown"
🙄
Hmm, would have made going on holiday as a kid a pain, although I'm sure my mum would have enjoyed leaving us with my dad for the flightAn Asian colleague said she hasn't avoided being taken aside for extra questioning in the last ten years. Typically with at least one foreign holiday (to Florida, Mexico, Thailand, Spain etc, not Syria!) per year over that time. She's not even Muslim, so it's lazy/ignorant 'profiling'!
There seem to be people who don't see how/why the 'profilees' get annoyed by it. If drink driving was shown to be more of a problem amongst middle aged Audi driving white men than anyone else, then the police might start pulling over middle aged men in Audis, (possibly on their way bag from 'Degla with the Five on the roof rack ...)
So you get pulled over, licence, MOT, insurance get checked, then you get breathalysed. All fine, you carry on with the journey. It's half an hour gone, but not the end of the world.And then Monday morning rolls around. You start your journey to work. and after five minutes you're pulled over again. Licence, MOT, insurance, mobile fingerprint device to check you're really who you say you are, breathalyser, drug test (seeing as we've already stopped you sir). All clear. Off you go. Two stops is bad luck, but hey.
Monday evening, you pull away from the work car park and don't even make it to the end of the road before you see the blue flashing lights behind you again.
Tuesday's okay, but Wednesday and Thursday you get stopped again. And again on Sunday when taking the kids to football practice.
The same thing happens again and again.
And if you moan to anyone about it they just tell you "well, they're only going after the most likely offenders....it's a bit of inconvenience for you but it's there to keep us all safe". It would annoy me, that's for sure.
As for the "you'll have to leave, you're making other passengers uncomfortable"
"how?"
"....By being brown"
Degla ....
One shouldn't make a fuss when things like this happen, one wouldn't want to offend any upstanding none brown members of society. You know the folks who demonise anyone with colour or an accent and sticks them with what ever backwards stereotype they have in their heads.
FFS
This world and the people in it hasn't changed much since I was short, and I doubt it ever will 🙁
Sam Harris did an interesting piece on profiling some time ago. I find it difficult to argue with his logic.
[url= https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/in-defense-of-profiling ]Sam Harris, In defence of profiling[/url]
There was an interesting point made about the hapless Egyptian hijacker - the reason he could get away with pretending he had a suicide belt was that the pilot didn't trust Egyptian airport security.
Isn't the simple answer for airport security to be good enough for everyone to trust it, so everyone knows there's no way for a dodgy passenger to get on?
Then when a passenger tells aircrew that the brown person next to them might be a terrorist, they can be told to sod off and stop being racist.
Sam Harris appears never to heard of a "proxy bomber!"
Isn't the simple answer for airport security to be good enough for everyone to trust it, so everyone knows there's no way for a dodgy passenger to get on?
That will work perfectly, provided security can be guaranteed to be 100% effective and terrorists can promise not to try new ways of doing things...
New ways like looking foreign?
My point is that if all the high-tech security can be beaten, is it really likely that a terrorist would be caught because they looked at a stewardess while being Muslim?
Really, of course, this is all about PR. Easier to keep some racists happy by ejecting someone brown than to tell the racists to sit down and shut up.
Sam Harris did an interesting piece on profiling some time ago. I find it difficult to argue with his logic.Sam Harris, In defence of profiling
Then you have people like Imad Iddine Habib who feel utterly betrayed by the "OMGZ that's wacist", section of the left.
Really, of course, this is all about PR. Easier to keep some racists happy by ejecting someone brown than to tell the racists to sit down and shut up.
I think someone like Imad would accuse the left of PR by pandering to anti-racosts instead of dealing with the issues at hand. That article above, utterly eviscerates them.
bencooper - MemberReally, of course, this is all about PR. Easier to keep some racists happy by ejecting someone brown than to tell the racists to sit down and shut up
Maybe they're not racists just people who are a bit concerned / scared owing to a load of media hype. I would also question your extrapolation that anything that happens regularly can definitely be described as "all the time", reguarly in this case reguarly seems to be once in several million passengers (btw two fo your links are the same story)so arguably not all the time. IIRC I've been stopped a load of times by SB travelling on an Irish passport, am I a victim of racial profiling or just profiling?
Why not just give anyone who isn't white a separate plane to travel on. Least they can all get offended on mass at the same time.
The flaw in that logic (apart from the really bloody obvious one) is that it wouldn't work anyway; the Middle East Suicide Squad are blowing up far more Muslims (and people who look a slightly differently Islamic) than they are Westerners people. We're just much better at reporting it when it involves white people. And that's tied up with,
people who are a bit concerned / scared owing to a load of media hype.
I truly believe that the media is massively culpable for the current situation. We're splashing out headlines every day about brown people blowing up white people, about those pesky migrants coming over here taking our jobs and surviving on free handouts (how does that work exactly) and so on and so forth.
If we want to win the 'war on terror' we need the "news"papers to stop going "ZOMG BE TERRIFIED!!" every five minutes, we're playing right into the terrorists' hands and doing their work for them.
Let me be clear chaps. (Heck knows why i have to but here goes)
When i made this comment (see below) it was taking the urine out of all those who say that the chap who was taken off the plane was making to much of a fuss over nothing.
[b]Rather sad. Why not just give anyone who isn't white a separate plane to travel on. Least they can all get offended on mass at the same time.(More convenient for the idiots out there :roll:) [/b]
Hence why i said "More convenient for the idiots out there :roll:"
But this being the internet only selections that are convenient to what ever banjo cause people have are used.
Because having a plane load of folk look at you like a criminal and taken off a plane by people with guns and stupid amount of adrenaline and a free pass to do what ever they want, would make the poor chap feel warm and fuzzy. I mean, why would the chap fear for his life, wonder why the heck he was pointed out and not the idiot who fears anyone who isn't white enough to be on their plane.
Damn i'm disappointed by some of the comments here, but it's a internet site and chaps have free will and all that
Let me be clear chaps. (Heck knows why i have to but here goes)When i made this comment (see below) it was taking the urine out of all those who say that the chap who was taken off the plane was making to much of a fuss over nothing.
For the record, I did realise that; I was using your comment as a starting point to make a point of my own, I wasn't arguing with your satire. I think it's my post that perhaps needed to be clearer, not yours.
We're splashing out headlines every day about brown people blowing up white people, about those pesky migrants coming over here taking our jobs and surviving on free handouts (how does that work exactly) and so on and so forth.If we want to win the 'war on terror' we need the "news"papers to stop going "ZOMG BE TERRIFIED!!" every five minutes, we're playing right into the terrorists' hands and doing their work for them.
Who is this WE you talk of ?
What is this war on terror you speak of ?
What's your point, caller?
What's your point, caller?
It quite simple I think your post and the point you are trying to make is silly.
Good for you.