Are you suggesting not paying? What high moral standards you must have.if you need a helicopter they'll give you a bill for 600e-1200e. You decide what to do with the bill.
I am with educator on the insurance - you have all healthcare paid for using your reciprocal arrangements.
Teh likely worst outcome is that you have to stay in Europe until you are able to get on a plane home in a single seat rather than getting the next plane home and taking up multiple seats.
A friend of mine recently smashed his leg sking. he was not insured. he was home the next day with a bill for a couple of hundred pounds. But he didn't get teh helicopter off the mountain and he got on a normal seat on a plane.
I have never used travel insurance and doubt I ever will - its simply not needed in europe
Well I never paid my Swiss hospital bill, but don't feel at all guilty as I'd never particularly wanted to go, and certainly wouldn't have bothered if I'd known they were charging (no mention of that - or at least not that I noticed, it was for trauma counselling so not in the best state to take these things in, and very unimpressed to get billed given the circumstances).
You can't fit 17 bikes + 156 suitcases in the cargo holds of an Airbus A319, which is why they didn't arrive down in Geneva with you.
Teh likely worst outcome is that you have to stay in Europe until you are able to get on a plane home in a single seat rather than getting the next plane home and taking up multiple seats.
Believe me - having now had to twice make arrangements to get people home there's plenty of worse outcomes
I have never used travel insurance and doubt I ever will - its simply not needed in europe
In your opinion, it is not needed for you, in your circumstances, in Europe.
For many others, especially those with children, it is.
This is, like helmets, about your personal risk management and your personal levels of comfort.
Edukator,
It's not very basic, it's as good as the health service of the country you're in, Cougar.
No - its as good as the FREE health provision for citizens of the country you are in. If you are in a country where the citizens generally insure themselves for treatment then you will not get amazing care. Some hospitals in Europe would have charged her EUR15 per night for her stay.
If your MIL had died they wouldn't have repatriated her body without insurance. Your spouse may have been grateful for insurance in that circumstance. Similarly if you need an air ambulance to bring you back to the UK (a low probability - but not an insignificant risk for someone mountainbiking in the alps). Or if you are discharged from hospital but have to wait say a week until fit to fly (or even able to get a flight in more remote areas) they won't cover the accommodation cost.
Of course all insurance means you should be "quids in" if you self insure for long enough. The amount I have paid on house and contents insurance outweighs the one claim I have made by 10x - however I can't afford to rebuild the house or ever completely refurnish it following a fire so the policy is actually sensible.
Obviously MOST travel insurance claims are for much lower values. But even a relatively minor accident could see you leaving the hospital with a patient contribution of a couple of hundred euros in some european countries. Add in £40 for the trip to hospital. £300 for rebooking a flight home at short notice having missed your original flight, another £40 to get back to the airport because you are not where/when you were meant to be. (More if a partner/spouse has stayed to wait with you). Very quickly a minor accident has added up to over £500. Probably £1000 is your wife stayed to check you were OK. Now if you are either reasonably well off (where that level of cost is minor) or have been squirreling the money away from each previous trip then you will be fine. If it happens in your first couple of trips then you will have a big cash flow hit and not getting insurance may not seem so wise.
And that is only looking at the costs of an accident abroad. If you have an accident in the UK before you go (or some other emergency) and need to cancel the trip completely you may not be able to afford to rebook - so it is money down the drain.
I don't think you are a cheapskate - I think you are obviously reasonably well off to be able to afford to take the risk.
I do think single trip Travel insurance is expensive - but I can cover my whole family worldwide for a year for about the same cost as two 1 week trips to Europe with a high street name.
Does that mean you've just always owned crap cars then? My premium is only about £20 higher by opting for Full Comp car insurance than TP only. The significant risk to a car insurer is the damage and injury you cause to others, unless you are a particularly high risk driver.Just the money I've saved by insuring my car third party (no fire or theft) over the years (with compound interest on the money saved) is enough to buy a more expensive car than I've ever owned
Well that shows just how much you know about the UK insurance market - I'd save no money at all insuring 3rd party.
Yes I just did a quick comparison to get an up to date figure (as it is at least 3 or 4 years since I even considered it) and the cheapest price the Merekats were offering for Third Party was MORE EXPENSIVE than the cheapest offerings for Fully Comp (and that is with the same insurer!)
The thread seems to have drifted off into an insurance debate - not sure why. As I said in my earlier post, a reasonable DELAY (not loosing it completely - obviously very different) in your bike getting to your end destination is usually written into the terms and conditions of your purchase of hold space for it. Of course what constitutes reasonable is up for debate as your idea when travelling for the sole purpose of using the bike, the the airline's position of carrying bikes as a secondary consideration after people are probably very different. As such I doubt anything but specialist cover would help you as you signed up to this as a possibility at the outset and most glass-half-full types choose to overlook it as a possibility.
I'd be very interested to hear of anyone who has managed to get compensation (at say a rate of £80 a day for substitute bike hire) in such circumstances.
Children are really easy to deal with. My son got taken off the hill skiing (yes I did pay for the mountain rescue, ambulance, and a derisory contribution for the IRM scan things). No more than 200e some of which came back from his ski race licence. He didn't need to drive or work and could be carried around on my shoulder - less hassle than if my wife had done the same.
My comment aboout what to do with the bill refered to the fact that in France at least it's worth pleading poverty and trying to negociate when rescued off-piste, point out you are not insured from the outset and the bill will reflect this. You'll need more than just holiday insurance for extreme sports and off-piste skiing. I suggest the Carte Neige. On-piste pay the extra 1e insurance per day on the ski pass.
When I had a car in the UK it was insured "road trafic acts only".
I don't insure my bikes; property and solar panels are insured but the contents cover is derisory and the window are not; The car insurance is minimalist; no health insurance; no travel insurance; there's a bit of sporting insurance included in my triathlon licence.
It's a question of balancing risk, cost and reward. House insurance is cheap; a couple of hundred quid to cover several hundred thousand pounds for a year. Holiday insurance is expensive (well more than the house policy for the number of holidays I take each year) and covers things I can pay for no problem.
TJ - have you considered the possibility that it could be months (or even never) before you would be well enough to get on an ordinary aircraft and travel home in a single seat? You don't even need to be doing high risk activities to be taken seriously ill or have an accident.
I wonder if your view will change as you age? I wonder if you would come to the same conclusion travelling with kids? I wonder if you would arrive at the same decision if your net worth was much less than it is (I have no idea if you are well off or not - but many people spending a grand a head on a trip to the Alps will probably have less than a grand available in cash!). Would you take a different view if your earnings were also likely to be impacted by an accident (IIRC you work for the NHS so are reasonably well looked after in the even you are unable to work for several months due to injury/illness) - if I miss work I don't earn - adding that to an unexpected bill could really hurt.
Edukator - I don't agree children are easier in all circumstances. If their treatment extends their visit then it will extend yours too.
Perhaps holiday insurance is more expensive in France? Its possible to insure a family of 4 worldwide with winter sports cover and one of the parents with some underlying medical issues for less than £100 per annum.
"months (or even never)". Do you actually dare go outside Poly? Spend too much time worrying and insuring for everything that could happen and you'll end up doing less.
How much does your holiday insurance that covers you for months abroad, never being able to come back in a single seat and loss of earnings during all these months or years cost you?
Do you actually dare go outside Poly? Spend too much time worrying and insuring for everything that could happen and you'll end up doing less
Crap line.
Poly
I can't be doing with hiding from millions to one risks - the sky might fall in you know. 🙄
I find it very hard to foresee a circumstance where you couldn't travel home on a normal fight for months - or by train.
I am 50 and have been cycling and mountaineering all over the world
My net worth is low - but I do have a credit card. I get no sick pay at all bar SSP.
I am content to rely upon t he reciprocal arrangements where they exist. perfectly adequate. I would have health insurance if I went to the US
On that basis, Poly, holiday insurance is more expensive in France. Especially if it includes winter sports such as ice climbing, ski-moutinaeering, para-gliding or any other potentailly dangerous activity. It's usually batter to get a competition licence, Carte Neige or CAF membership in the relevant discipline to cover the basics and cough up for the rest.
I'm surprised a policy that cost only £100 for a whole family worldwide for a year covers you for extreme sports.
sleazyjet lost our boards when we flew to marrakesh with them. The trouble was, our destination (tagazout) was a 6 hour drive away, and they couldn't tell us if they'd be on the next flight (the next day) or not, so we didn't know whether to go (and rent boards) or stay, and risk losing 2-3 days of the holiday sitting in the wonders of marrakesh.
In the end we left, then got a call that they'd found them, and they'd be back the next day. They weren't willing to pay for anything for the inconvinience though (ie either rental boards, cost of getting the boards to tagazout, cost of our petrol to pick the boards up, cost of us staying one night in marrakesh, nothing)
Just renewed my annual multi trip Euro insurance
£16.15 [bought as a couple @£32.30]
Given I go away 6 or 7 times a year, I really couldn't be bothered trying to save the couple of quid per trip
Having seen what Uplink pays, if that includes helicopter rescue from remote mountains then I retract my earlier comments about it being cheaper to self-insure. Just what does that cover, Uplink? Your camera being nicked or more? Memebrs of my own family paid ofo the order of £100 just for a week here in France. That included repatriation if injured or ill but no extreme sports or loss of earnings.
details here
To be clear though, this is just general travel insurance for trips away with the missus, not specific cycling trips
Insurance is the biggest waste of money -
- until you need it!
"You may not be covered when you take part in certain sports and activities".
#goes to page 12#
(Mr MC posting)
uplink that is too cheap to pass on, given they have an admin fee to process the policy they cant be making much.
along the "off" topic, I recently bought my first car (at the age of nearly 40, so no car NCB) and fully comp was cheaper than TPFT or 3rd party only (TPO); by going for TPO the insurers assume you think you are a bad risk.
Ive been hospitalised twice in Morzine, and claimed it all on insurance. What is obvious out there is that all the private parties are on kick backs, the private ambulance drives straight passed a hopsital and takes you to a private clinic (in Thonon).
When I broke my knee on top of all the medical costs I was driven onto the tarmac by an ambulance and carried onto the plane, where I had the entire front row of seats. When we landed in the UK I had a luxury taxi waiting for me as I couldnt get into MC's tiny skoda fabia with her and the bike bags in the back. I was happy to have insurance pick up those useful extras.
And back "on" topic, I bought a Seat Alhambra specifically as a bike transporter and dont intend to fly to the alps again, but will be flying bikes long-haul.
Personal liability for cycle-touring is not covered. You have to pay an extra premium for winter sports and there's an excess similar to what rescue might cost on some sports. T'aint worth the pixels it's made up of.
T'aint worth the pixels it's made up of
surely that depends on what you're doing on holiday?
I personally wouldn't dream of cycling touring or playing in the snow, and from memory, the premium for sports cover for one trip wasn't a great deal
From your comment that you picked out of the policy, I take it personal liability is important to you? - how do you cover it then?
uplink - everything else is covered under reciprocal arrangements bar repatriation. Thats why it so cheap
Home insurance. It's also covered by the "training" cover of a competition licence. Have a look at your home and motor policies, some things you may be covered for are surprising and may mean you need no more.
Other insurance products are available. We had one that covered the likes of scuba (which kicks mountain biking's ass for medical costs) down to 30m for less than £100 per yr for 2 of us, globally.
uplink - everything else is covered under reciprocal arrangements bar repatriation
cool, so they cover lost and stolen baggage too? - how good is this EEC thing 🙂
So 2 quid per trip for possible repatriation and baggage cover [if needed] is OTT?
OK then
PS adding up to 17 days winter sports cover costs an extra £6 for the year
Esay jet is the Tesco value flight companys, its like buying a bike from halfords or eating 4p noodles. You get what you pay for, if you had payed a few pounds more you could have gone on KLM and arrived with youre bike 🙂
Years ago my landlord at the time and his wife (both police officers) went skiing in Norway. On about day 3 he was up on the slopes having a lesson when a ski-doo turns up and a very urgent bloke asks for him. His wife has been taken ill and he is needed urgently. He jumps on the back of the ski-doo and they charge down the hill only for the driver to crash before they make it to the hospital.
He was helivacced off the mountain with two broken legs, a broken pelvis, broken ribs and a punctured lung. In the itu ward next to the ward he was being treated in his wife was being treated for a DVT that had moved and caused a pulmonary embolism.
Upshot was the two of them spent an extra month in Norway before being brought back on an air ambulance. It was months and months before both could resume full duties.
It sounds like a farce but it happened to people I know so I always think of them when I ponder the need for insurance. Not always worth it and a reasonable risk given reciprocal arrangements - but it could be you!
I have used dogtag in the past which does mean you get some cool wannabe militaryesque tags as a memento!
I find it very hard to foresee a circumstance where you couldn't travel home on a normal fight for months
EasyJet/RyanAir won't let you on the plane unless you can walk to and onto the plane unassisted, without crutches or your mates holding your arms. Oh, and this does apply to people living in Scotland, as I know you believe this is a caveat to do what you want.
If you can't imagine having you leg in plaster, from a biking accident, you don't have a imagination, and deserve the thousands of pounds bill to get home.
my mate just got hellicoptered off the avoriaz->morzine road (after hitting a car, hard). You can't be in a much better place for a crash in the alps, yet it was still a heli job. I expect his total costs to the insurance company may be rather high..
So if we'd paid £44 as a couple for the last thirty years I'd have been able to claim for a couple fo hundred pounds worth as anything else I have paid wouldn't have got over the excess. So I have 30 x £44 + interest - £200 to spend just from not having taken holiday insurance.
It's not like I haven't fallen off things (cliffs, caves, bicycles, skis) but each time I've just sorted myself out at minimal cost. Madame crashed her bicycle in Spain (broken collar bone). We initialy refused to be picked up by the Guardia but when he got angry and pulled his gun out I got in the Jeep (having put the bikes in first at gun point). He initially told us he was taking us to a Spanish hospital but I argued against so insistently and noisily he eventually just took us to the Guardia headquaters. From there we got a 4X4 taxi from France to pick us up and take us home. About £60 at the time.
richc - a friend of mine just flew back easyjet having broken his leg and was in a full leg non weightbearing plaster so was on crutches and could not bend his leg. He is also nearly 7 ft tall. Not an issue
I don't think I am insured more than the average person in the UK - and I spend very little time worrying about it. The point being insurance is intended to cover the worst case scenarios not just the minor mishaps. Most people can afford to cover, or live with the inconvenience of the minor problems - most people would have big problems when the proverbial really hits the fan."months (or even never)". Do you actually dare go outside Poly? Spend too much time worrying and insuring for everything that could happen and you'll end up doing less
TJ - so you don't know anyone who has ever been in hospital for weeks or months? Serious stroke, or head injury requiring nursing care are the obvious ones, but anything requiring specialist equipment. Even pneumonia could see you unfit to fly for weeks or months. Bear in mind that a normal airline won't let you on if they think there is any risk they will have to divert because your condition worsens. In some cases a couple of days on a train / car might get you home but not in the worst situations - will your significant other leave you for a couple of months? Will she return to "escort" you home on the train?I find it very hard to foresee a circumstance where you couldn't travel home on a normal fight for months - or by train.
Dead bodies are also expensive to move around.
So the worst time to start racking up a very big credit card bill - when you've just lost your income stream for the immediate future!My net worth is low - but I do have a credit card. I get no sick pay at all bar SSP.
Edukator - Your more unusual winter sports might not be covered. I'd need to refresh my memory as none of those things are 'normal' for me. I wouldn't be surprised if some or all were excluded or significantly restricted.On that basis, Poly, holiday insurance is more expensive in France. Especially if it includes winter sports such as ice climbing, ski-moutinaeering, para-gliding or any other potentailly dangerous activity.
I'm surprised a policy that cost only £100 for a whole family worldwide for a year covers you for extreme sports.
I could get cover include "Winter Sports" with fairly unattractive excesses for £50 for the whole family. For a £100 I get upto 31 days per trip with no more that £50 excess on any element. Bringing us vaguely back on topic that does include cover for delayed sports equipment (up to £300 per person if not there 12 hours after reaching destination).
I don't have loss of earnings cover, that is why its all the more important to me that I do cover the travel related risks. I can live with losing a month or two of pay or a I can live with a scary medical type bill but not both.and loss of earnings during all these months or years cost you?
Only idiots don't insure themselves. Also TP car insurance? You must be very poor with a rubbish car in order for that to make sense.
My experiences with holiday insurance;
1) My grandmother - died on holiday in Greece, insurance paid for everything and most importantly, dealt with all the paperwork etc. don't think my grandad would have been able to do it on his own (even if my Dad had flown out to help).
2) My mother invoolved in a minibus crash in The Cameroon 5 years ago. 15 people on minibus 12 of whom died. She was laid out with the bodies until someone noticed she was breathing after a couple of hours. Fractured skull, broken neck, broken shoulder, broken hand. 3 days in local clinic on a bed with no mattress and very rudimentary care, helicopter to capital and 3 weeks in hospital, medical flight home (not full medevac but nurse flew out from uk and accompanied her home and she flew first class). On return home ambulance to hospital and further 3 weeks in hospital. **** knows what the cost of that lot was but a bit more than 'saving a few years premiums' I suspect.
Poly - as I said I don't worry about millions to one occurrences. I don't fear the sky falling in.
And yes - in that situation I would merely stay in hospital there under reciprocal arrangements until I was fit to come home on a normal flight.
As alluded to above - you only get the huge bills if you are insured. - cos if you are you go into everything privately. If you are not insured the only thing that is different is the repatriation.
wwaswas - I would take insurance in both of those situations - elderly and / or outside europe.
I'm off to Morzine next week
Bike worth a couple of grand
Bike related bits like helmet, bike bag etc worth £500-ish
SLR & video camera worth about £700
Holiday cost of about £500
£30 to insure that lot for the week is a small price to pay in relation to the initial outlay.
If you can afford nice stuff and a nice holiday, a tiny premium (0.8% of the value of my stuff + holiday cost) is a minor price to pay for peace of mind.
TJ - my mum was 70 at the time so fell into both camps!
She's mostly recovered now - spends a couple of months a year abroad int he Phillipines, India, Africa and South America.
Only place she really doesn't feel safe is Mindanao where the local police insist on her having a full Swat team with her at all times - haggling in shops with a bloke carrying a machine behind you (and one in the car and two more at the door) is quite effective, apparently.
She's quite a star at her local head injuries unit - they don't get many people in who've had such significant head trauma that's been virtualy untreated for so long after it occurred so she's being treated as a 'control' for a lot of studies they're doing on rehabilitation and so on.
(Mr MC posting)
Edukator, insurance is about estimating risks and protecting yourself against them to a level you are happy with. Most people will be able to use hindsight to say they didnt need some form of insurance, thats how insurance works and companies stay in business. Ive benefited from travel insurance and got more than my money back, others wont. I have never been burgled, and have never had a motorcycle accident in 20yrs of riding but I still have insurance (and fully comp in the case of the bike, as one accident would be likely to cost thousands to repair, such is the way with plastic-wrapped sports bikes).
Youre comfortable relying on reciprocal arrangements and your ability to cover any other costs. Others aren't and are willing to pay a premium for that security.
edit; boardinbob, succinctly put.
i see insurance as an investment, insure me and you going to pay out 🙂
I don't worry about millions to one occurrences. I don't fear the sky falling in.
Can you insure against that?
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