Can we form an extended household with them? I have no siblings, so its only us, we are all at home, and with kids not being in school we are not in close contact so present no/very low risk.
Advice is… challenging. Scotland states only with someone living alone or with folks under 18, English rules would allow it as it allows for someone alone or with someone needing continuous care.
Where terminal illnesses and the like are involved then they can take priority (whilst still taking sensible precautions of course). Don’t believe anything is written down but the question was certainly asked and answered during one of the press conferences and I’ve never seen anything else saying otherwise. I’ve just had to use this sort of approach myself with a recently ill now dead relative. Just spent the last week in Essex sorting his affairs.
Big scots nanny
Again my interpretation but the "extended household" would allow your entire family to visit. the vulnerable persons exemption would be one of you
Hey presto, impoverished experience for all.
Absolutely. For example, we have three 13yr olds here with a wide range of abilities, all in the same school year and class. They have been set five maths tasks which are revision of stuff I know they did last March - we're in the third term of this year now, still revising. One of them will finish each task in about 10 minutes and is then bored and disruptive, another is literally still counting on her fingers. But we have to be inclusive...
But we have to be inclusive…
A lot of teachers are hiding behind this and what the unions have said as an excuse for not engaging with pupils online.
I heard an area union rep referring to live online lessons as being 'pedagogically unjustified'. I wish they could have seen the response of pupils to some of the online lessons I taught this week. I'm not saying I'm amazing at it, far from it but it works and is hugely appreciated.
TJ, Mike - thank you. For lots of reasons it seems a no brainer, but there is so much in life at the moment that is untethered, sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees.
I have a house being done up. Not staying in it as it is a building site. Another floor added etc. Lovely neighbours reporting tradesman for non essential work. Should I just call it quits for now?
I think having a house to live in is pretty essential, I would carry on.
I think having a house to live in is pretty essential, I would carry on.
I assume he is living in a different house at the moment.
I thought construction was still allowed though?
lightfighter762
Full Member
I have a house being done up. Not staying in it as it is a building site. Another floor added etc. Lovely neighbours reporting tradesman for non essential work. Should I just call it quits for now?
If people are complaining about people working in an empty house, they are fuds. Carry on.
If it’s an empty dwelling then works can carry on. Non essential works stopped where houses are occupied
During the previous lockdown I was allowed to buy the house but not to flit until the lockdown was lifted. There was no structural work to do, decorated myself and eventually found a spark to check some minor electrical issues. So if you need the house to live in go ahead, if you're building it to let or sell on... Down tools.
Edit think Steve 2910 has it correct
AFAIK non-essential construction is where you have tradespeople entering occupied properties to do non-urgent work. Working on an unoccupied / partly constructed house is just regular construction which is permitted.
big_scot_nanny
Full Member
Can I ask a question about ‘extended households’? Hope you can share some wisdom.Us (fam of 5): Stirling. Elderly parents: Gourock.
Dad terminal cancer, frail, a bit doolally. Needing daily care from mum (catheters/bags/medication etc) supported by district nurse as needed. Mum dislocated shoulder, again, at Christmas and is now very restricted in movement. We got her a person to help with housework, but she cancelled them due to screaming Inverclyde and north Ayrshire cases. We agreed with that call. Lots of neighbours and friends helping with shopping etc so they are good there.
Its stuff in the house that needs done (beds, ironing, anything above shoulder height!), and some respite for mum from the never-ending isolation/grind.
Can we form an extended household with them? I have no siblings, so its only us, we are all at home, and with kids not being in school we are not in close contact so present no/very low risk.
Advice is… challenging. Scotland states only with someone living alone or with folks under 18, English rules would allow it as it allows for someone alone or with someone needing continuous care.
Common sense would say of course we can do it, but it doesn’t seem that clear and I’d like to not cause my folks any stress if its not cut and dried. (Mum is rather adamant about certain things.
Genuinely looking for guidance – let me know your thoughts please
Fella, If you've got family that need help, go and help them.
Nanny, I am in the same boat. It is within the rules and even if it wasn't so what? Crack on as time with him is more precious now than it has ever been.
Crack on, personally I can't see the difference between one of you visiting or the lot of you, if it allowed you to get more done (or just get your mum out the house whilst someone else deals with things) then go for it.
Easing soon! Watch this space!
Based on what? The numbers are still high. I'll be amazed if anything changes in the next 6 weeks
Source?
I too am skeptical. The figures just aren't right.
Nothing until 3rd week in Feb - at the very earliest. I suspect they'll just add on another three weeks, taking us up to mid-March.
R number is now below 1 but the new strain means that any new outbreaks spread rapidly. There's a biggy in Elgin that appeared almost overnight. They're also recruiting nurses to go over to Stornoway to help deal with an outbreak in the hospital there.
BoardinBob
Full Member
Based on what? The numbers are still high. I’ll be amazed if anything changes in the next 6 weeks
Numbers are bombing rapidly though, another 3 weeks and prevalence will be next to nothing, imo.. assuming the current trajectory continues.. things will be opening up, if not mid feb, defo march. What level they'll open up to who knows.
Fingers crossed, but I'm not holding my breath.
Would love to get back home to visit family in N Yorks at Easter, especially as my daughter is due 24th March.
Na, not a chance. They've opened up too early too many times now, and that was before we had the more transmissible strains.
It'll be well into march before we gently ease restrictions IMO.
One of the first things will be certain kids back into school. Examination kids with practicals to do. Other kids will stay home learning. This will be before hospitality etc. I don't expect any change soon.
Nobeerinthefridge
Free Member
Na, not a chance. They’ve opened up too early too many times now, and that was before we had the more transmissible strains.It’ll be well into march before we gently ease restrictions IMO.
Guess it depends on what metric they use I guess, if infections(ie positive tests), could be earlier than we think. If it's hospital admissions I guess will go longer.
Should be the later, and should have been based on that all along, but past evidence suggests infections are what they have based decisions on. I guess this new strain may make them rethink that. (new admissions have just started to turn, so it will be a while if they base it on that.)
I think the percentage of positive tests is the golden number tbh, but even that has to be taken over a weekly average to iron out procedural inaccuracies.
But then (hopefully) we'll get to a point soon that all over 50's are vaccinated, and the % of positive cases won't necessarily result in a lag rise of admissions and deaths, then we're into trial and error season again.
Yeah, once over 50s are done. There will be a big push to open up I think(from the general public), assuming vaccinating them will basically all but eradicate hospitalisations(hopefully, who knows how successful the vaccines will be and how many under 50s get hospitalised? must be many magnitudes lower than over 50s I guess). Then soon as that's quiet, or atleast at a much lower percentage than current, the noise will be deafening to open up.
Numbers are bombing rapidly though, another 3 weeks and prevalence will be next to nothing, imo.. assuming the current trajectory continues.. things will be opening up, if not mid feb, defo march. What level they’ll open up to who knows.
I don't think I'd say bombing rapidly, but the general trend is downwards, and if you extrapolate that trend forward the daily no of new cases starts to look pretty good by end of feb. BUT I'm not convinced we can just extrapolate forward the rate of decay on new cases. But I agree we will be at NEW case rates by end of Feb that are better than when individual areas were getting "unlocked" in late 2020. However, this:
Guess it depends on what metric they use I guess, if infections(ie positive tests), could be earlier than we think. If it’s hospital admissions I guess will go longer.
Should be the later, and should have been based on that all along, but past evidence suggests infections are what they have based decisions on. I guess this new strain may make them rethink that. (new admissions have just started to turn, so it will be a while if they base it on that.)
They've always used a mixture of factors, and that makes sense. If hospitals are quiet today but its obvious where its going - act on the new cases. If new cases are low but hospitals are still full of people it would be insane to open up and flood the hospitals a few weeks later. If the lag from infection to hospital is about 2-3 weeks, and a typical hospital stay is 2-3 weeks (for the lucky ones) I think you are looking 4-6 weeks after the new cases are "OK" before you risk any opening.
They've said Schools will be first to go back, and I doubt they will send the whole country back at once. 1. Regional variation; 2. More evidence emerging worldwide that younger = lower risk (and bigger harms); 3. "Exam" year urgency. So my prediction is late Feb or first week March we see some pupils return for at least some of the time. We'll wait at least 3 weeks from that so its clear what the impact is before all pupils return. Easter holidays provide a convenient 2 week breathing space after that. My guess is the most cautious will be pushing to keep level 4 restrictions until after that (albeit possible the pre-christmas level 4 rather than 2 from 2 we have now). I'm sure others will push to get at least some areas unlocked - living in an area that's actually pretty good and has been since December i'd be delighted if we were reduced to level 3, but I'd happily wait a few more weeks if it means we are less likely to ever go back to 4+ we are in just now!
I think the vaccine roll out will create a (probably misplaced) urgency to open up. If we've done the over 70s and shielders by the end of Feb I suspect we'll see the press, retail, pubs etc saying - come on the highest risk are "protected" now, its really just like bad flu for the rest of us. I have a vested interest in wanting everyone who normally get the flu jag (not me) to have at least their first dose - and a 2 week chance for it to work before we say OK, lets seriously look at relaxing anything. SO, that's a long way to say I suspect nobody in the central belt goes < level 3 before the end of May. If the evidence shows people who are vaccinated don't transmit in significant quantities, and the vaccine remains effective after >6 months then I think we could be having serious conversation about how relaxed we can get it in the second half of the year. They really need to be shit hot on the testing, and tracing though to stamp out outbreaks as they happen 48-72 h is too long for test results, especially if you don't start to trace people till a +ve.
yeah not expecting a mass opening, I'm just talking about the beginning of the process.
This is UK wide data mostly but interesting anyway
https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/januarys-drop-in-cases-is-starting-to-slow
who knows how successful the vaccines will be and how many under 50s get hospitalised?
Well there were 140 people UNDER the age of 45 admitted to hospital this week - we don't know how many of them have a chronic condition which would mean they are further up the vaccine list than healthy 50 years olds. I suspect the problem will be at that point the motivation for the young and invincible to comply will be reduced so I think we'll see bigger outbreaks in younger folk where they are not complying with self isolation and maybe not even coming forward to be tested etc. I actually think the problem of messaging becomes harder as we roll out the vaccine on mass. But we've no idea how long the vaccine lasts for...
Examination kids with practicals to do
what subject is that - home eck?
@big_scot_nanny - technically you can't form an extended household (bubble) with your folks under the Scottish rules. However that may not be what you want to do anyway? Extended households are treated as though they are one single household, you can all come any go from either house, you can walk about together and there's no specific reason to socially distance etc. Effectively its like you and your parents live in the same house. Inevitably that does expose them (and probably to a lesser extent you) to a greater risk. Your dad may be terminal, but Covid in a hospital is a shitty way to go so you don't want to add to the risk as you and your mum have obviously realised by getting rid of the help from Inverclyde.
However, the rules quite sensibly contain a reasonable excuse for entering someone else's household: Schedule 5, Part 3 - 13(1)c(iii) - providing care or assistance to a vulnerable person, and a similar provision at 16(2)e allowing you to leave your own home to do so. So you can go to your parents house, to help with ironing, cleaning, moving stuff around etc. I'd suggest to protect them keep the visits as short as sensibly possible, avoid using the same toilet as them, stay 2m away if possible (for some care stuff its obviously not) and probably all wear face coverings.
what subject is that – home eck?
Music, maybe PE, the oral part of language exams....
Once the over 50s are done.......we’ll that’s going to take quite a while! Wife’s gran, 94, still hasn’t even been contacted about her vaccine (Edinburgh).
Once the over 50s are done…….we’ll that’s going to take quite a while! Wife’s gran, 94, still hasn’t even been contacted about her vaccine (Edinburgh).
I think it’s worth someone checking up if she might have been missed (or missed an invite). Local gp here (in same health board) saying any of their patients over 80 who’s not had an invite should call them. Over 70s invites have started going out.
My opinion, schools back after February half term.
Wider lockdown easing starting after Easter.
That's my pessimistic view, hopefully it'll be sooner!
Poly - cheers, wife’s Auntie, who lives with and cares for gran - has been contacting all and sundry.
I'm planning on cycling home to Ayrshire from Hampshire for my 40th at the end of May. Fingers crossed.
Dad (70) getting jabbed next Sunday. Mum(67) not heard yet.
My opinion, schools back after February half term
I have to admit this would be nice but i cant see it until Easter
Really do hope school's back after half term. Our daughter started new school after Christmas and their online stuff sucks vs her old school. Took us 2 weeks to get all the logins!
Since moving up to Scotland been quite impressed with general lockdown compliance so hopefully that'll help. There are always total fannies though - bumped into a family group of 8 adults, assorted kids and dogs on the trail today. They seemed to give up - I guess getting called out by everyone you pass takes the edge off the fun. Absolute dickheads - the paths are all narrow but ok to social distance if everyone is in small groups.
giant_scum - as a devout pessimist I’m going for schools back after Easter break. Easter and holidays are early this year.
Easter holidays are the same time every year now AFAIK? but aye, agreed, no way we'll open schools up before England does.
Had to laugh at this one...
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/2859847/climbers-rescued/
Two climbers from Glasgow get stuck on Ben Nevis, get rescued and then charged with breaking Covid regs.
Later, two climbers get stuck on Creag Meagaidh. They're "local" so don't get charged.
It does raise all sorts of questions, like "how local is local given the advice not to be going further than is necessary for exercise" - there's not many chimneys near Creag Meagaidh - and "is winter climbing a responsible past time to be undertaking given how many folk have shown concern about the level of gnar-ness they are riding?" 🙂
I see social media evidence of people (inc friends) heading off Ski touring. I like in PKC so could access some splendid terrain in fantastic condition, but it would be a 1h+ drive, and therefore I can't bring myself to do it.
what subject is that – home eck?
Music, maybe PE, the oral part of language exams….
...dance, art, graphic communication, craft and design...
