It was enevitable watching the way they were at the pubs since they opened
Even in the village the notorious pub has looked like it's put in place exactly zero measures.
Spin
MemberStarting to get a bit nervous about the return to work as a teacher.
My sister, who teaches in Scotland tells me that her union rep has heard that 66 teachers in her local authority are not wanting to return to work on safety grounds. Not one of the biggest council areas either.
She is planning to go back until she retires in January. She has other risk fsctors apart from age but reckons that as her subject has small class sizes and she is in the one room all day she will be OK. No need to mingle with pupils in the corridors between classes. Apparently no staff meetings either in school to keep staff seperate.
Good, pubs are way down the list of things that should be open and are an obvious spot for a flare up. Isn't just Aberdeen, I am outside Montrose and one of the flat roofers was shut by the police last week.
My sister, who teaches in Scotland tells me that her union rep has heard that 66 teachers in her local authority are not wanting to return to work on safety grounds.
We have been given face masks and not likely to be doing experiments at the moment which is a bit sucky. Can still do demonstrations though. Not so much an issue with nat 5 and above biology but BGE science is full of experiments. I can see chemistry having issues and maybe physics.
We won't be doing whole school meetings on the inset days but our base is big enough for meetings.
*Please note this is an update specific to the cluster investigation*
5 August 2020
We can confirm the number of cases detected in the Aberdeen COVID-19 cluster now stands at 54.
We have, to date, identified 191 close contacts. Investigations are ongoing and we cannot rule out detecting further cases and therefore more close contacts.
Dr Emmanuel Okpo, Consultant in Public Health Medicine, said: “I know people in the city will be concerned by this news. I want to stress that our health protection and Test & Protect teams are working extremely hard to speak to all the detected cases and identify their close contacts. We will be in contact with everyone.
“Right now, we need everyone to be vigilant. This incident highlights COVID-19 is still with us. I cannot stress enough that people should ONLY arrange a test, via the NHS Inform website (or the staff testing scheme if you work in health & social care), if they have the recognised symptoms. These are a fever, a new continuous cough, and/or a loss of your sense of taste or smell.
“If you are identified as a close contact of a detected case you will have to self-isolate for 14 days. Please do not seek a test if you do not have symptoms; getting tested and receiving a ‘not detected’ result will not remove the requirement to self isolate.”
We are aware that a number of detected cases linked to this cluster have visited other venues across Aberdeen and as of 12 noon today, these venues are as follows:
1. Bieldside Inn
2. Bobbin
3. Brewdog
4. Buckie Farm Carvery
5. Café Andaluz
6. Café Dag
7. Café Drummond
8. Cock & Bull (The)
9. College Bar
10. Dutch Mill (The)
11. Dyce Carvery
12. East End Social Club
13. Ferryhill House Hotel
14. Hawthorn/Adam Lounge
15. Howff (The)
16. Justice Mill (The)
17. Marine Hotel (The)
18. McGintys’s
19. McNastys
20. Malmaison
21. Moonfish Café
22. No.10 Bar
23. O'Donoghues
24. Old Bank Bar
25. Prohibition
26. Soul
27. Spiders Web
28. The Draft Project
There were also four leisure settings named - Aboyne Golf Club; Deeside Golf Club; Hazelhead Golf Club; Banks O'Dee Football Club.
Everyone in Grampian is encouraged to remember the FACTS guidance:
F – Face coverings. These should be used in shops and on public transport (buses, trains and taxis)
A – Avoid crowded places.
C – Clean your hands frequently, using water & soap whenever possible.
T – Two metres – observe physical distancing.
S – Self-isolate and book a test if you are suffering from COVID-19 symptoms.
I am one of the f**wits from Aberdeen. I thought we were doing so well too. Alcohol and social distancing doesn’t work too well. If a pub is open they do need extra staff to police numbers and keeping groups separate, I don’t think it’s a unique Aberdeen phenomenon it can happen anywhere.
Anyway I’m sorry I’ll try to behave better next time.
I'm sure that Aberdeen is not unique in terms of poor social distancing, not properly segregated table only bookings, etc, etc. However, the incredible increase in daily positives for NHS Grampian is so notable - hence the actions taken.
Following pubs everywhere opening, I'm surprised not to see the same type of up-trend in other Scottish health-boards data - assuming the behaviours which led to this increasing cluster are not unique to Aberdeen of course.
I was literally in ARI this morning getting a (non covid related) test done!
Like most I'm not surprised. I drove around town on Saturday night having been to another event outside the city and the queues outside pubs and clubs were massive. They might have been following social distancing inside the bars but there was precious little evidence of it outside.
On the plus side a lot of those bars had already taken the decision to close yesterday or the day before so some at least were putting some effort in. A bit late but still it's not nothing.
I predict that there will be another cluster lockdown elsewhere before Aberdeen's is lifted.
Heard a good one about one of the pubs in the 3 toons, temperature checks with a gun as you walk in.
"You're okay you're 30 degrees"
"Er, I hope not"
"Aye it says here, you're 27 you're fine as well"
"Better phone an ambulance..."
Glasgow was pretty good when we visited, plenty of distancing inside and people behaving. Might not be the same everywhere mind.
A concern over the Aberdeen outbreak is that it involves off-shore workers visiting the Spiders Web before getting their trains to their home towns. This could spread very quickly. I wouldn't be surprised to see an outbreak in Inverness next.
“You’re okay you’re 30 degrees”
“Er, I hope not”
“Aye it says here, you’re 27 you’re fine as well”
“Better phone an ambulance…
problem with IR thermometers is they take the outside temp not the internal. my outside temp on my skin is 34c in a 25C room, the temp at the back of my throat is 37C
concern over the Aberdeen outbreak is that it involves off-shore workers visiting the Spiders Web before getting their trains
Propagated by people getting in a tizz on Facebook spreading rumours about things like this. I've seen 8 different versions so far . Some not even involving the spiders or an offshore worker of where this came from.
There are also several reports of the Facebook busys making up facts and adding pubs to lists of covid cases that have closed of their own accord are news outlets have picked up as factual and added that NHS test and trace have closed them down......lots of those coming out the woodwork
You don’t often see the Bielder and Bank Bar on the same list. At least Covid is bringing people together. All a bit inevitable really, close the pubs/restaurants/ anywhere you can’t where a mask.
Up until now Aberdeen had done a good job.
Walking into the village and saw blacks making absolutely no attempt at anything just the standard rabble.
problem with IR thermometers is they take the outside temp not the internal. my outside temp on my skin is 34c in a 25C room, the temp at the back of my throat is 37C
We have scanners at work, if your internal full body temp is high your external will be high. We have ear thermometers to weed out false positives and the (technical) system works. As always it's the meatsuit managing it that is the weak link.
Walking into the village and saw blacks making absolutely no attempt at anything just the standard rabble.
Yep all that preparation (some outdoor seats and umbrellas) a few days of outside drinking, then back to the same old same old. My kids are a bit pissed off, they’ve been enjoying hanging out (outside) with friends and were looking forward to going back to school which is now looking a bit uncertain.
We have have those external temps for an initial read, you then take an internal (ear) reading if temp over threshold.
Have tested them and the ones we have are basically accurate for testing to a threshold.
That's a mess in Aberdeen but it could happen anywhere.
I'm in Lincoln; have no confidence in the great british public using the common sense which johnson attributes.
Staff in hospitality are doing their best but ^^^
I go biking and running - solo.
Meet son, partner and their son (my grandson) at their place or mine; we all share where we've been and who we've met.
Masked up for any possible contact with others.
It takes so little piss poor/inconsiderate behaviour by only a few to stuff things up for the majority.
If this thins out the hard of thinking I won't be overly bothered.
Just a note on the mention of offshore workers travelling through Aberdeen at the moment. We are probably in one of the most highly monitored groups in the country just now regarding this pandemic for obvious reasons. My company requires me to fill out a travel disclosure form asking questions about any symptoms I may be suffering, if I have travelled to any restricted areas in the previous 14 days, do I share a dwelling with anyone showing symptoms, have I been in contact with anyone showing symptoms or anyone testing positive etc etc 7 days prior to my mobilisation. I then have to fill this out again 48hrs prior to mobilisation. I must then attend for a test covid 24hrs prior to mob and quarantine within the allocated hotel ( no leaving room permitted) until my allocated transport arrives to take me to heliport. My temperature is then taken and only then if clear am I allowed within the terminal building. At all times having left my hotel room I have to wear a double layered snood that supposedly is impregnated with some fancy chemicals to assist its effectiveness even during the flight to the installation. Once on the installation I have daily temperature checks and if there is any sign of a deviation from the norm then the emergency plan for this scenario would kick in. This involves many steps up full medivac in hazmat suit on the specially prepared ‘covid chopper’ if required.
The oil industry, for once, has been pretty much on the ball with this one.
Saying that shutting down the Spiders / any other pub is to prevent onward transmission from offshore workers is a bit of a red herring imo, best shut down the Tesco just down the road so they can’t buy a carry out for the train then, or any other shop they may go into...
There’s far more danger from the thousands of tourist flocking to the Highlands just now than a few offshore workers passing through Aberdeen on their way home after a few weeks of quarantine but there’s **** all really being done about that.
No real point to this post other than a wee rant!
I'd happily see the pubs shut, town was a far more pleasant experience when they were.
@nstpaul A lot of folk have very odd, outdated views of the industry, and there's a fair few pairs of green eyes around too, lots of folk even in Aberdeen who think they don't see the benefits of the oil and gas industry either, bizarrely.
When do we call it and shut all the pubs again? Keep outdoor restaurants, and restaurants with adequate space indoors.
If I was Queen I would shut all the pubs, let them covert to late night cafes and not serve alcohol if people really need to socialise in public. The gyms should be open before pubs.
So much for the war on obesity!
100% agree, drink is absolutely a luxury, not a necessity.
Well thanks Aberdeen fitba players, just what we didnt need. Let's not have a witch hunt though. Anyone can make a mistake. However I do think there's a good argument that the postponement also punishes St Johnstone unfairly.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/spfl-scottish-premier-league-aberdeen-players-coronavirus-tests-protocol-bar-visit-a9658886.html
It's not really making a mistake though, is it? it's blatantly breaking one of the conditions of football being allowed to resume, the players have all been told what's expected of them, and the club itself is rightly mortified.
Either the match should have gone ahead, or St Johnstone should have been awarded a win.
We have have those external temps for an initial read, you then take an internal (ear) reading if temp over threshold.
Have tested them and the ones we have are basically accurate for testing to a threshold.
That's impressive. Where did you get enough pyretic patients to test the threshold was valid with, without causing a major covid panic?
Only a proportion of people who are infectious with covid would actually have a temperature at a given time, and only a proportion of those are going to be unaware of it / otherwise asymptomatic such that they don't remove themselves from circulation. I think temp checks are mostly to make people feel good you are doing something - they may have a reverse effect - that people become complacent, or who feel a bit dodgy think if they pass the temp they are fine.
The oil industry, for once, has been pretty much on the ball with this one.
right up until their staff are back ashore and no longer likely to shut down their platform!
Saying that shutting down the Spiders / any other pub is to prevent onward transmission from offshore workers is a bit of a red herring imo, best shut down the Tesco just down the road so they can’t buy a carry out for the train then, or any other shop they may go into…
Eating and drinking on trains is currently not permitted. The exposure risk in 20 minutes reasonably well spaced wearing a mask amongst other masked people in tesco is very different from the risk unmasked shouting at each other closely confined in a pub for several hours.
Either the match should have gone ahead, or St Johnstone should have been awarded a win.
Would that discourage clubs from being upfront about future rules transgressions?
Should ensure a bit of space on the park
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Eating and drinking on trains is currently not permitted.
Perhaps in other parts of the country it isn't, but not on Scotrail services, they have removed all onboard catering and are encouraging people to bring their own food and drink
Honestly with pubs, it can be done safely but you can just about take it for granted that in so many places it won't. My brother's a real ale guy and the pubs he'll condescend to drink in, are all apparently doing all they can and keeping it safe. My local? Not. Or, yes at the start of the evening, but not once people are pissed, and no wonder.
I think the only real option other than closing them all is an enforcement squad with powers of instant closure tbh. Yes it'd be a huge shame and a blow for the industry but, that's pandemics for you.
That’s impressive. Where did you get enough pyretic patients to test the threshold was valid with, without causing a major covid panic?
Ours were subject to random testing which proved they were recording temperatures correctly and sit in a climate controlled room. They caught me early on when I'd been in the sun during the day and my skin temperature was high, the internal check subsequently proved a false positive but it obviously worked. Its not hard to calibrate and test equipment and you certainly don't need actual cases to do it.
Eating and drinking on trains is currently not permitted
Nope. Got west coast mainline from Glasgow to Crewe on Monday, coffee etc all on, no hot food, but only cos their catering firm are still furloughed.
right up until their staff are back ashore and no longer likely to shut down their platform!
Same as any other industry then.
I don't think it will affect the club reactions as this was detected by test and protect teams and not the clubs internal testing
I'm trying to work out - if I ignored the bosses direct instructions, ignored a professional Union agreed action and ignored Rule No.1 with life-endangering potential outcomes, would I still have a job?
And you were tested twice weekly, and your industry only got special dispensation to start up again because of all these extra mitigations, and you're allowed to come into contact, and you STILL do it.
Thick bastards.
If I was 21 and single and had a few quid in my pocket I think I would have went to the pub with my workmates on a Saturday night. After all they all train and play together. I’m sure they have learnt their lesson now the hard way.
right up until their staff are back ashore and no longer likely to shut down their platform!
Not sure what your point is with this statement. Or actually if there is a point to this statement. It's rather random really.
And actually they are taking it as serious on their on shore facilities
I’m sure they have learnt their lesson now the hard way.
Eh? Seems like they’ve got off pretty lightly, asymptomatic cases and a slap on the wrist? Dave Cormack should have them under lock and key at Westhill Holiday Inn and only let them out for matches and training (and maybe MacDonalds or Subway if they’ve been good boys and won a match) 😉
It may well be that the players involved are facing disciplinary action. So far as I Know no one has said otherwise. If they are then surely employment law should apply as it would to all the rest of us.
Ours were subject to random testing which proved they were recording temperatures correctly and sit in a climate controlled room. They caught me early on when I’d been in the sun during the day and my skin temperature was high, the internal check subsequently proved a false positive but it obviously worked. Its not hard to calibrate and test equipment and you certainly don’t need actual cases to do it.
Of course you need to test them with real patients, and real operators to have any idea of the diagnostic accuracy - that’s proven beautifully by your own example of overreading when you were in the sun, presumably it’s just as feasible to underread if you were cold, or had just washed your face. To prove they spot patients with core temp >38 (or whatever threshold you decide on) you need to test it with patients who have temp >38. And do that in sufficient range of conditions to be sure that skin colour, make up, room light, distance from sensor to skin, ambient temp, etc are not affecting the result. It’s not about calibration and testing - it’s about validation. Those are different steps for what is essentially a medical device (albeit probably not certified as one). As it’s not being used by a medical professional it should have been subject to various further studies and design considerations about how the lay user can misuse it - and that would most likely involve rejecting measurements that were hypothermic. I’m not saying your people haven’t done a better job of implementing this than the average - but don’t be believing that they have a robust screening method based on forehead scanning - there’s a reason we didn’t implement that at our borders...
Not sure what your point is with this statement. Or actually if there is a point to this statement. It’s rather random really.s
Everything you described was about protecting the company from the consequences of covid not the country or the workers (other than the consequence of a worker affecting the company). It appears from what you described and what others have claimed in the media that once workers got back off the helo they were free to do as they wished, with predictable results that the socialise then travel - that’s a different risk in terms of disease spread from travel then socialise. I appreciate it’s not really the place of the oil companies to tell their workers how to behave once they’ve “signed off” but then we expect footballers to behave a particular way, we might be astonished if healthcare workers spent all day getting coughed on by covid patients then went to the pub to share their infections and my company (not in the oil industry) put in place special travel arrangements so people wouldn’t need to use shared transport to get to from/site - so why does the oil company’s responsibility end when someone leaves the heliport rather than when they get home? Cynically - because on your way home you present zero risk to production!
Nope. Got west coast mainline from Glasgow to Crewe on Monday, coffee etc all on, no hot food, but only cos their catering firm are still furloughed.
It seems you are right. It must have changed - when they first introduced masks they were announcing in the stations no eating or drinking on board (as you need to remove the mask). I live close enough to the station to hear them every 15 mins when the wind is blowing the right way and in the garden - I hadn’t noticed the change but will see if I can hear them later!
so why does the oil company’s responsibility end when someone leaves the heliport rather than when they get home?
Same as any other worker, you can only put controls in place in the workplace.
The difference between them and footballers is that the sport had to accept all the mitigations laid down to get started again, which these idiots have just ignored.
It's completely different. Pharma industry has no responsibility for me outside of work.
well the amount of FB "friends" who live in the lock down area on who are off on trips away this weekend is quite shocking. #shaksmaheid
