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Easing of Scottish ...
 

[Closed] Easing of Scottish lockdown

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1 dick move doesn't excuse another does it?

Its not about what they were riding- the carparks are closed to stop people travelling and spreading virus.

Ironically they were parked outside the house of a guy who was recently seriously ill with Covid..


 
Posted : 14/06/2020 10:13 pm
 kcr
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The carparks in Culross also looked like they were jammed full when I cycled through today. I understood the 5 mile limit on driving for exercise, and the risks involved if people ignored that guidance and started travelling from further afield and cramming into popular spots. An arbitrary recommended limit of 5 miles for isolated, self powered exercise from your front door doesn't make sense to me.


 
Posted : 14/06/2020 11:33 pm
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squirrelking
This is not inconsistent with saying if you end up 50 miles from home you are (for most cases) taking the piss somewhat (its perfectly possible to do big rides within a far smaller radius in most scenarios).

If I head west 6 miles and don't turn back then, it's over 100 road miles until I get home.

It's a loop I normally do regularly.

But lockdown is lockdown, I'd love an excuse but I'll keep sticking to it.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 1:48 am
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Epicyclo, it's the likes of you I have in mind as exceptions, IIRC you're NW? Like I said, that's for most cases, even in Largs you can't do a loop that takes you less than 8 miles from home. I think in your case though you could do 25 miles (or less) each way and turn back with little to no contact from anyone.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 3:07 am
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This thread is deteriorating


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 6:16 am
 Spin
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If I head west 6 miles and don’t turn back then, it’s over 100 road miles until I get home.

It’s a loop I normally do regularly.

But lockdown is lockdown, I’d love an excuse but I’ll keep sticking to

It would have been fine under lockdown, it's only now that restrictions have been relaxed that it's against the rules. 🙂


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 8:19 am
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Meanwhile, down South, things have been much more relaxed for a month now and the number of new infections is still falling at the same rate as it is up here.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 8:40 am
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I decided to draw up a local Spiral of Purity.

First a Circle of Purity with a radius of 8 km (5 miles) to establish the limits.

The Spiral of Purity takes any rideable surface, road, track, path, and a few maybe surfaces (eg only if it's dry) and follows the circumference as closely as possible.

The temptation to include hike-a-bike sections for shortcuts was resisted.

The great lump of a mountain in the northern part constrains the top half but needless to say includes most of the climbs.

So I end up with 85+km and 1,300m of climb. Not a job for an mtb because there's a lot of road in the lower half, and not a job for a road bike because the offroad has some rough sections and there's a few fences to jump.

The Spiral of Purity looks like a job for a gravel/rough stuff bike. Might do it on the longest day to make it more memorable.

Now I'd better stop complaining that 5 miles from home is too limiting.

Thanks for the inspiration scotroutes. 🙂


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 9:21 am
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Mine is a semicircle. 200m climb Some gravel and fine sandy singletrack, so is best on a fatty. However Guidelines state it can only be ridden in poor weather due to tourist attraction and crowds. Past two weeks have been great, firmer sand as well.

Purity Protractor


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 9:49 am
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Please someone tell me there's a bike frame or new trail going to be named Purity Spiral....


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:00 am
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been much more relaxed for a month now and the number of new infections is still falling at the same rate as it is up here.

Interesting. I've not been paying too much attention to the infection rates - partly because I was aware that they were skewed by the increase in testing. The death rates seem to have diverged further though with Scotland now running at less than a third of that down south.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:06 am
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I happened to open the Loch Morlich webcam at about 10 last night to the amusing view of 2 tents on the beach, a roaring fire and various flesh coloured objects frolicking in the water 🙂 Thankfully it is low res ! I did check back this am and tents were still there, gone now.

At least some folk are having fun 🙂


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:08 am
 poly
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been much more relaxed for a month now and the number of new infections is still falling at the same rate as it is up here.

You sure about that?
Calculations of R have a significant lag; even then whilst Scottish R values are creeping down, at least some regions of England are creeping up.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:11 am
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My route has a couple of sections that are just over the line.

Those bits will be called the Circumference of Impurity.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:15 am
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Infection rates are pretty much guess work, R number and total deaths show that England are not slowing as much as we are.

Mate of mine is a team mechanic with Lapierre in France, though pretty much all of their riding is over the border in Italy.

He reckons their cafe culture is back, with masks. Hopefully we'll get ourselves to that place soon.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:17 am
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😆

If Purity Spiral isn't a bike frame, its a least a t-shirt! Money to MTR again?

Now, who was that fella that did the wonderful Gnarpoon efforts...


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:22 am
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Those bits will be called the Circumference of Impurity.

How about "Boris' bits" or "Nicola says naw"...


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:24 am
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Infection rates are pretty much guess work, R number and total deaths show that England are not slowing as much as we are.

While that is true, I've just read that Forth Valley does have increasing numbers of infections again. It's not many, but it's not going down or even zero. 🙁


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:26 am
 kcr
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Copied from the Welsh thread:
https://gov.wales/coronavirus-regulations-guidance#section-39253

Does my entire bike ride have to be in the local area?
No. We recognise there are certain forms of exercise, which, though you start locally, may temporarily take you further afield. For example, a strong cyclist may get their exercise through bike rides of 40 miles or more.

Exercise as a form of “active” travel in this way (a long cycle ride, run or walk) is now allowed, but the exercise must start and finish from home.

The Welsh gov seem to have thought a bit more carefully about their latest guidelines and the wording.

But lockdown is lockdown...

The Scottish guidelines and the way they have been communicated have been pretty good up to this point. I understood what they were trying to do, and I have been happy to follow the rules, not just because "lockdown is lockdown", but because I can see how they reduce risk for me and other people. However, I think they've just got this last revision wrong. Appearing to curtail distanced exercise at the same time as relaxing the rules on meeting up with other people is just inconsistent and doesn't make sense. Cycling 10 miles from home on my own, rather than 5 miles, doesn't present a greater transmission risk for me or other people.

You have to have consistent, sensible guidance if you want to take people with you in a situation like this. I agree that they've probably just made a mistake (as suggested previously in the thread) and haven't considered the possibility that an average cyclist could easily be travelling more than 5 miles from home. It is a "recommendation", and no one is actually going to be chasing people who are exercising responsibly in isolation.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:33 am
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As iainc pointed out above, the Police aren't even enforcing existing, pre-Covid laws so trying to persuade folk to abide by these new, changing and inconsistent guidelines is bound to fail.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:38 am
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kcr
Cycling 10 miles from home on my own, rather than 5 miles, doesn’t present a greater transmission risk for me or other people.

Agree. In the loop from Dingwall-Ledmore Bonar-Dingwall there's nowhere you'd come close to anyone other than deliberately. I rarely see other cyclists on it.

But as moab points out “Nicola says naw” 🙂


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 11:11 am
 irc
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In the papers today. Nicola visited her parents yesterday. AFAIK She lives Edinburgh/Uddingston and her parents are in Ayrshire somewhere. More than 5 miles? So as the FM is no longer following her own guidelines ...............

From the Scot Gov website today

Travel for exercise, recreation and to meet friends and family outdoors

You should avoid crowded places where physical distancing may be difficult.For this reason, our advice is that you should stay within your local area when you go outside for exercise or other activities.As a guide, rather than a fixed limit, 5 miles from your home would be within your local area.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-phase-1-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others/pages/meeting-others-outdoors/

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-joy-reunites-parents-22192724


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 3:11 pm
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She said during a briefing last week that she'd be visiting her parents as (at that point) this was within the guidelines.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 3:30 pm
 irc
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The guidance had changed by Sunday when she made her trip reimposing the 5 mile limit.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 3:33 pm
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You should avoid crowded places where physical distancing may be difficult.For this reason, our advice is that you should stay within your local area when you go outside for exercise or other activities

That it is interesting, becasue it makes quite clear that the guidance is there to avoid honey-potting. Not to prevent people from cycling 30 miles in case they get a puncture.. or whatever.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 3:34 pm
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imnotverygood
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That it is interesting, because it makes quite clear that the guidance is there to avoid honey-potting. Not to prevent people from cycling 30 miles in case they get a puncture.. or whatever.
Posted 14 minutes ago

Correct. I,m all for avoiding honeypots and keeping social distancing where possible as we exit lockdown. But if the FM can drive 50 mile+ for a socially distant visit to parents I hink I'm good for a 50 mile drive to exercise.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 3:53 pm
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Go for it then.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 4:00 pm
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The discrepancy between driving to exercise and driving to visit folks has already been pointed out. The only limit on the latter is your bladder control.

Are people allowed to travel to meet friends and family outside?

Yes, but you should stay in your local area if possible. As a guide we suggest ‘local’ to be no more than five miles from your house.

Because of the high chance of the virus living on hard surfaces, we don’t want people using public toilets or going into someone’s home to use their toilet, so staying local avoids that problem.

You can argue about the logic (and I have) but one is plainly within the guidelines and one plainly isn't.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 4:29 pm
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And I believe her folks live in Dreghorn, which definitely ain't a honeypot.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 4:38 pm
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AFAIK She lives Edinburgh/Uddingston and her parents are in Ayrshire somewhere. More than 5 miles? So as the FM is no longer following her own guidelines ……………

Lives in Glasgow and commutes to Edinburgh, have on occasion seen her mention the commute back through on social media, and SNP website also lists Glasgow. Commute also appears to be mentioned in this thrilling day in the life article in the Scotsman.
She definitely doesn't seem to ever be at official residency at Bute House, any doorstep photos of her that appear in the press or social media are always at some new build estate, not Bute House.
So I really don't think there's anything to moan about here...


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 5:51 pm
 irc
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@scotroutes
No, the bladder limit for visiting was the original phase 1 guidance. As per my link it is now 5 miles for visiting and exercise. Update guidance release June 8th without any public announcement. The FM breached her own guidelines

. https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-what-you-can-and-cannot-do/pages/seeing-friends-and-family/


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 5:55 pm
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I'll paste the relevant bit from your link. Again.

Are people allowed to travel to meet friends and family outside?

Yes, but you should stay in your local area if possible. As a guide we suggest ‘local’ to be no more than five miles from your house.

Because of the high chance of the virus living on hard surfaces, we don’t want people using public toilets or going into someone’s home to use their toilet, so staying local avoids that problem.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 6:00 pm
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irc- it's strange that all of a sudden you're a stickler for the guidelines given the previously you don't seem to have given a shit about them.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 6:11 pm
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Aye, funny that....


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 6:35 pm
 irc
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I'm ignoring the guidelines where it suits me. Like thousands of people are. But I'm not the one in charge of setting them.

Are people allowed to travel to meet friends and family outside?

Yes, but you should stay in your local area if possible. As a guide we suggest ‘local’ to be no more than five miles from your house.

. https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-what-you-can-and-cannot-do/pages/seeing-friends-and-family/Obviously the FM has the get out that the phrase "if possible" is used. Sort of the Cummings defence in that it is technically not a breach.

In which case everyone else has the get out that the guidelines on distance are not law.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 9:03 pm
 Mat
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Anyone figured out the change in daily positive cases in Scotland?

Scottish numbers: 15 June 2020

29 new confirmed cases of COVID-19*
0 new reported deaths of poeple who have tested positive

*as of 15 June this includes confirmed cases at UK Government Regional Testing Centres (RTCs). Of today’s new cases, 9 were from RTCs.

A total of 210,959 people in Scotland have been tested through NHS Scotland labs and RTCs to date (of which 73,851 were first tested through the RTCs). Of these:

192,929 were confirmed negative (of which 71,508 were first found negative from an RTC test).
18,030 were positive (of which 2,343 were first found positive from an RTC test).

I've been tracking and graphing the numbers just so I could compare, my NHS region, Scotland and UK. Scottish figures have generally been consistent in reporting and more transparent until this. Does this bring the numbers inline with current UK reporting or is a similar UK gov change in the pipeline for the UK figures? Even incorporating these numbers Scotland still has ~25% less cummulative confirmed positive cases per head than UK total (3300 vs. 4364 cases per million).


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 9:17 pm
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Even incorporating these numbers Scotland still has ~25% less cummulative confirmed positive cases per head than UK total (3300 vs. 4364 cases per million).

I think you need to take account of the number of tests per head of population too if you want to compare those figures.


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:00 pm
 Mat
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Yeah I’d like too but I’ve struggled to find decent UK stats


 
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:02 pm
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What about price, anyone think Abellio will find a way to gouge passengers to make up for lost revenue?

Hmm... well I've never quite understood Scotrail fare pricing structures, but definitely feels like the fares have taken a jump! £75 return Edinburgh to Bridge of Orchy, and that's booking almost as far in advance as the website will let me. Maybe I'm just out of touch, it's been a couple of years since I enjoyed a trip on the West Highland Line.

I tried the usual trick of booking an end-to-end journey e.g. Edinburgh - Ft William but that didn't change anything.

£75 feels like the sort of upper end 'most expensive' option that would always be on offer, so perhaps there's some quirk which just means cheaper advanced fares aren't available at the moment? If there are half as many seats available due to Covid does that perhaps account for certain number of cheaper advanced fares?

No biggy in the scheme of things, just curious.

Edit: in hindsight this post looks massively off-topic, it started as vaguely on topic a few pages back! 😀


 
Posted : 16/06/2020 9:54 am
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I haven't seen any large mountain bike groups in the Pentlands since the one a week or so back, although I did see a pretty large group of runners on Sunday that were clearly not from a single family and were not only making no attempt to distance themselves, but also seemed intent in passing anyone they saw as close as possible.

Last night I also saw a sizeable group of roadies (the first time I've seen maybe more than 2 or 3 in a group) who'd parked their cars in one of the Balerno side streets to meet up for a ride. Them being out for their group ride didn't annoy me, although them riding right across all the road (including on the wrong side) and not being keen to move over for traffic (including other cyclists) coming the other way wasn't great.

That's something I've seen a fair bit off during lockdown - folks riding on the wrong side of the road (and not just to pass other users), including when there are cars coming the other way. I've seen that quite a few times recently, but never before lockdown. Very odd.


 
Posted : 16/06/2020 10:33 am
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We've taken the gamble of a cottage outside Lairg for the first week of August...

I'm reading bits that's suggest Nicola is going to say 'only for the Scottish' holidays this week.

We're hoping for a week avoiding epicyclo on his constitutional on our bikes and in canoes.


 
Posted : 16/06/2020 10:54 am
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Obviously the FM has the get out that the phrase “if possible” is used. Sort of the Cummings defence in that it is technically not a breach.

Yer havering!

It's nothing like Cummings, one is driving 250 miles whilst sick with covid to visit your folks and see some nice touristy stuff, the other is driving half an hour to see someone because God forbid your whole family has never left the town they were born in.

"If possible" is just as clear as "Stay at home"; one was a breach, the other isn't.


 
Posted : 16/06/2020 11:01 am
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mattoutandabout
We’re hoping for a week avoiding epicyclo on his constitutional on our bikes and in canoes.

You can pop in to my wee holiday house in Lairg for a cuppa.

The midges will carry you across... 🙂

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Posted : 16/06/2020 11:03 am
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Obviously the FM has the get out that the phrase “if possible” is used. Sort of the Cummings defence in that it is technically not a breach.

No, her get out is that she doesn't actually live in Edinburgh, as you seem to suggest.


 
Posted : 16/06/2020 11:12 am
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Hmm... interesting chat with one of our hotels in Ardnamurchan, booked for September.

They're waiting for Thursdays announcement from FM as they expect some interesting new guidelines for Staycations.

As this particular establishment offers bunkhouse accommodation, they're worried about how to deal with communal kitchens and toilets. They're also concerned about the two bothies on their land, how on earth are they supposed to control those! They had a call planned with head of MBA later today, hope (for other's sakes) it doesn't result in lots of locked bothies by nervous land owners...

They also expect the FM to advise single household only Staycations. This scunners our plans as we're two households sharing rooms for 5 nights as we cycle around Lochaber. Might just hold off booking trains for now until we're more certain.

Watch this space I think.


 
Posted : 16/06/2020 11:49 am
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