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Prezet - Thanks, nice to be appreciated occasionally (rather than the usual ignored or being told to **** off, or that "I pay your wages' - really that one never gets old and actually I think you'll find that it's me that pays your benefits)
allthepies - red - Coz' red ones go faster (well known FACT)
Emsz - because it is negatively impacting on the rest of society?
(Some parts of it directly [police, ambulance staff, hospital staff, people who live/work in town centers] and some indirectly [alleged cost of£90 to every taxpayer])
As for minimum pricing - a good idea but it does make me laugh. Tories and Labour adopted this as policy for Westmister while opposing it in Holyrood . Can't bear to back a SNP idea
Isn't your usual argument that the SNP has a majority? If so then it must be voting against it's own plans. And besides, if you were independant you'd have these people with even more power and even less likely to do what wesminster MP's do. And you're already complaining about it?
As for the MTB Vs Drinking debate. Think about sport in general, I've never been in A&E on a Saturday night (thursday night yes after falling over while almost sober and depositing several pints of blood ont he pavement from my head), but Saturday/Sunday daytime the place is packed with sports injuries.
A broken forearm for example costs anywhere between £5k and 10k to fix apaprently, and I've not paid that much VAT on my bikes.
tinas - this was a couple of years ago when the snp were running a minority government. tories and labour blocked the introduction of minimum pricing in Scotland at the same time as the london parties adopted it.
Just an aside to laugh at the childishness and hypocrisy of politicians
because the ****less eejits make it our problem when they start costing us money and wasting our good health and police service's time. If they go out with the intention of getting absolutely blotto with a sensible plan about who is going to look after them and get them home then fair play, each to their own. But many don't. They have a sense of entitlement, that it's their god given right to have the system look after them. It's taking the piss out of all of us.why? seriously why? their choice, no one's forcing them to do it, let them.
And having to work really hard to persuade an 86 year old woman to go to hospital because she needs to, but doesn't want to because its Friday night and the Cas is going to be heaving with pissheads (she's right you know) is not my idea of fair.
sorry I mentioned the MTB crashing thing - it was in response to someone else and clearly spurious I thought.
Another interesting part of that is of course borders general has developed a high level of expertise in dealing with these injuries I bet. so perhpas they should be paying us for providing such good teaching opportunities
why? seriously why? their choice, no one's forcing them to do it, let them
Erm. Because it's unhealthy for them & wider society.
My 5yo son would happily spend the entire day drinking coke & playing on the playstation. That would be his choice. But my wife and I (the 'Government' in our house 🙂 ) advise him why this is not a good idea and put rules in place so that he learns moderation and the healthy way to enjoy these things etc (plus obedience to his parents ...)
If you expect to be treated like a responsible adult then behave like one, otherwise the Govt will be forced to treat you like a child and impose rules, restrictions and punishments ...
they don't care
Sums up some peoples attitude very well.
They don't care about what effect their actions are having on others.
Not something to be proud of really is it?
OK, so how about a campaign that instead of saying "don't drink so much" One that says "YOU drink? it's YOUR problem, we're not gonna help"
LOL 😆
vote for me, you know it makes sense!!
so perhpas they should be paying us for providing such good teaching opportunities
That's a lovely and unexpected twist... I like 😆
OK, so how about a campaign that instead of saying "don't drink so much" One that says "YOU drink? it's YOUR problem, we're not gonna help"
LOL
vote for me, you know it makes sense
Wouldn't that be bleeding wonderful! [i]Apparently[/i] it's not ethical to leave someone to die in the gutter when you are a supposed 'caring professional' though... 😳 so the next best thing would be to chuck 'em in a drunk tank where they get their airway maintained, other possible causes/issues watched out for and a big fat bill/fine in the morning...
Dr death.
20 quid a gram for cocaine?
Where do you live?
😀
North East
(it seems to be shite though, the locals are taking grammes at a time so it is probably mostly baking powder)
useless hippy - it will be "cocaine" not cocaine.
There can't be any actuall cocaine in a 20 quid gram of cocaine.
(it seems to be shite though, the locals are taking grammes at a time so it is probably mostly baking powder)
Note to self; self raising DOES NOT = better high...
😆Note to self; self raising DOES NOT = better high...
This is the crucial difference. I don't mind 'taxpayers money' convering treatment of people accidentally injured doing something constructive (sport, hobby, trade etc).Getting wasted on alcohol does not fall into this category.
Not sure I can see any real difference when it comes to ambulance usage etc. - you might go out to get wasted (or indeed, clear that jump you've never managed before) but you're unlikely to be planning on needing A&E care. The big difference is the scale - if 1000s of people were getting injured on a weekly basis you can bet that the government would be talking about licencing, minimum skill levels or whatever.
Not sure I can see any real difference when it comes to ambulance usage etc
Speaking as the ambulance man, I can see a huge difference. It's in the attitude of the punter, and it's in the perception that the public (who are picking up the tab) have of said punter. There's a lot of sympathy for someone who has injured himself whilst takIng part in healthy activity, a lot less for your average incapable intoxicated and often incontinent pissed up pleb.
Rightly so, it's all about social acceptability.
If you visit Lothian and Borders police HQ at Fettes in Edinburgh, in reception there is a handcart dating from the mid 19th Century. This was used by the then Leith constabulary to round up all the drunk and incapables and toss them into the drunk tank. This government seems intent on taking all it's policy leads from the good old Victorians...next we'll be running hospitals and education on a private basis, with only those who can pay their own fees seeing any benefit. Oh wait a minute.....
I'm surprised Dave and his mates haven't just come out with the reintroduction of poorhouses/workhouses, transportation of criminals, or corporal punishment. Though I bet at least one of these has been suggested in private/off the record...
Death sez:and actually I think you'll find that it's me that pays your benefits)
🙂
Death, any idea how much it costs to treat a drunk? Medicine and consumables wise?
but if your only complaint is that you have got so drunk that you've shit yourself I'm not entirely sure how that suddenly becomes my problem.
Post of the week! 😆
According to this
9 billion was raised from alcohol duty, and according to this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9083671/Health-minister-binge-drinking-costs-NHS-2.7bn-a-year.html binge drinking costs the NHS 2.7 billion a year, so aren't the drunkards subsidising the system for the rest of us?
Much of that £9bn will come from senisble drinkers though.
Pretty much what Dr_death said except the minimum charge thing I doubt will make much difference.
We've ran 'drug tanks' on New Year Eve in Newcastle, together with a Dr and St John's. Those that have had too much to drink get a mattress on the floor, some fluids and maybe IV ones a bit of a kip and then when they're more with it sent on their way.
Police cells now don't get used for drunks as much, it's not what they're there for for one and also they don't have on call medics readily available now in many areas. Where I work they have to drive 28 miles to take them into custody that can deal with drunks, given than they are often the only ones in the area and have to ask for a second officer to go with them from another area this takes 2 out of 2 large areas for several hours.
Did you see him today Dr_death are have you been off?
We've ran 'drug tanks'
Is that what you call your trucks??? we just call them motors... lol 😉
In all seriousness though, I despise the concept of the 'temporary minor injuries unit/booze bus/drunk tank' SJA thing. It's great for the ambulance service, all those red 1/cat A u/c patients that you get to within the 8 mins because they are classed as passing calls, but really, its just panda-ing to the pissheads and legitimising their often frankly disgraceful behaviour. A proper drunk tank would be police led, medic supported, with fixed penalty notices issued to all attenders.
In Edinburgh the drunks end up in the main cells fairly often. Sometimes collected from ~A&E
That's because it's a city so has the resources. I bet Haddington doesn't have the resources the same as Edinburgh.
Is that what you call your trucks??? we just call them motors... lol
Ooops!
I like you idea of penalties for being taken in, the did have Police in them that carted some off if their behaviour warranted it.
In Edinburgh the drunks end up in the main cells fairly often. Sometimes collected from ~A&E
I should imagine that there are quite a lot of regional variations. Where I used to work a drunk died in the cells a few years ago with resulting nasty repurcussions for the bobbies. trying to get them to take into custody anyone in even a mildly innebriated state was a knightmare for ages; It led to some ridiculous situations. I guess it largely depends on how well supported medically the custody suite in question is, as well.
Nurse practitioners on duty 24/7/365.
A proper drunk tank would be police led, medic supported, with fixed penalty notices issued to all attenders.
The idea of drunk tanks, at least according to the enabling legislation in Scotland - the Civic Govt Scot Act 1980 was to remove drunks from the criminal justice system. So why police led?
In 1980 legislation was introduced in Scotland for “designated places” where the police could take intoxicated people to sober up – thus diverting them from police custody. 40 years on it never happened. Not in Strathclyde anyway. Because nobody would pay for it. Drunks are still being cared for in police stations by staff with no medical qualifications bar a first aid course.
30 years ago police were quite happy to throw drunks in a cell. These days with better training about the risks and the possibility of alcohol masking other medical conditions they are more likely to be taken to A+E. I'm talking about near unconscious drunks here not staggering but still able to speak drunks.
I don't see either the NHS or the police diverting cash from their squeezed budgets to set uop drunk tanks. if it didn't happen in the good years despite the law being in place it won't happen now.
When Dave Cameron suggested drunk tanks did anyone ask him what budget the funding would come from?
Nurse practitioners on duty 24/7/365.
Yup resources.
Now there's a cushy number... <Wonders if a Paramedic practioner would fit the bill...>
Drunk tanks would need police to do control and restraint - or PCSOs
v8 - not really - a lot of responsibility if rather dull at times. I can't really say too much about it on a public forum.
I don't see either the NHS or the police diverting cash from their squeezed budgets to set uop drunk tanks. if it didn't happen in the good years despite the law being in place it won't happen now.
See the ambulance led ones that me and Drac are talking about, actually save money for the NHS, and free up resources. (They are also a bit of a statistics fiddle as well)
Police led, so that the attenders can recieve a fixed penalty ticket, so that they are under no illusions that letting themselves get into such a state as to not be able to look after themselves is in any way acceptable. Also stops them getting too lairy.
Teej,
not really
Cushy? or
not really
A Paramedic practioner role?
(prepares to mount high horse to defend his 'profession')
If you meant not really cushy, only kidding, no unsupported medical role ever is...
Yup as V8 says you may not see them but they have and do happen, Local PCTs pay for them, Police and Ambulance Services because the advantages off keeping resources free work well.
Oh and I'm not talking about those that can hardly walk or those that are unconscious or even those that are a little drunk I'm talking about all of them. Police really just can't detain any of them in custody without seeing a suitable qualified medical person. It's not good for Police publicity if they choke on their own vomit whilst in custody.
It's not good for Police publicity if they choke on their own vomit whilst in custody.
It's not good for police career prospects, either... 😕
Both. You could be trained up to do it easily but its a set of skills I doubt you have now. I can't really say too much on here - email me if you want to know more
I'm really lost at what you mean TJ.
We're more skilled than we ever were.
I think we are slightly at cross purposes - of course you could manage a drunk tank -but the nurse practitioners job in the cells block is a different set of skills. You have people for up to 4 days.
but if your only complaint is that you have got so drunk that you've shit yourself I'm not entirely sure how that suddenly becomes my problem.
I worked in an A & E in central Aus which had a fantastic sign plastered to the main enterance reading
"Bad planning on your part does not constitute an Emergency on mine".
Careful Teej, don't upset the Ambos, theres loads on here! 😉 I get what you mean though, ongoing management of existing conditions is not something I have a great deal of experience in. I should imagine you are talking about managing come downs, detox, Rx librium etc, as well as other pre existing complications and conditions. All in the mix with spotting the genuines vs the ones looking for a ticket out of there. It actually strikes me as quite an interesting challenge.