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Never dabbled.Mates smoked when I was young but a) I didn't like cigs b) they were boring as **** whilst stoned. Still went clubbing though.
Did a longish stint in the "war on drugs", predominantly wholesale heroin trade, 10kgs of class A upwards only, occasional coke (my pbs were 130kgs of coke in the back of a van in Essex, 110kgs of opium ang 86kgs of heroin). Never met anyone there who wouldn't have been / wasn't doing other serious crime - nasty people in a nasty trade, apart from one of the opium jobs: they were just very mellow Iranians. As a career it was good fun, lots of niche skills developed.
It's funny to look back on the socially awkward visits to the dealer. I was from a small village, dealer lived on a council estate. Pot didn't exactly bring me out of my shell (more like it patchily reinforced it). We always joked about how scary she was. Can remember sitting on the sofa trying to bring myself to broach the subject of my visit while sat next to an assortment of various family members and her children, psychotic dogs, cats.
A few years ago I had problems with gallstones, I'd be in absolute agony, paramedics would turn up, administer gas & air, then cart me off to a&e just to be sure. This happened several times, then I figured I might as well cut out the wait for the paramedics and just self administer the nitrous oxide. It really hit the spot, but not tried it since gallstones removed 😉
Did a longish stint in the "war on drugs
Username checks out etc etc
Caffeine is probably the only one I could say "addicted" too. Generally 2 coffees, 1 tea a day, but I definitely don't function properly until I've got my espresso in me at breakfast, despite claiming I only drink it for the taste.
Alcohol, again I drink for the taste. Maybe 5 units a month? A pint is as much as I want of an evening, and I'd rather have 2 different half pints. I got varying degrees of pissed whilst in my first 2 years at uni (30+ years ago) because it seemed expected of me, but never enjoyed being drunk, didn't like wasting the next day and didn't like the expense, so I stopped. Generally only have a beer if I'm going out for a meal and happy enough exploring the low/no alcohol option these days. Quite enjoy a nip of single malt whisky of a winter evening, but a bottle lasts the best part of 5 years, so its not like I'm smashing it...!
Other stuff - well I grew up with a grandfather who had about 30% lung capacity, so smoking was never a thing. Never had the slightest interest in anything illegal, first because, well - illegal (boring bastard alert), and secondly because life is weird enough as it is that it doesn't need "enhancing", plus cost, health blah... Mostly wouldn't have a clue how to go about finding the stuff either.
That said, I've spent 30 years employed in the entertainment industry and working with riggers who are probably second only to scaffolders in their use of oats'n'barley as a mild mid-shift pick-me-up. One of my formative memories of the industry was watching a bunch of colleagues crawling round on the floor to snort lines off the lens of a 500W halogen floodlight, and it was the idea of being beholden enough to a bit of powder to go after it on hands and knees that sealed my dislike of the stuff.
Should probably edit to say - quite enjoy an endorphin hit; despite living what some people would call a "high risk" lifestyle (lots of work at height, bikes, skis, climbing, quick cars) I wouldn't call myself an adrenaline junky - if I'm getting an adrenaline surge I'm not properly in control and too close to ****ing it up. The satisfaction is in doing scary stuff neatly accurately and safely.
I’ve never taken illegal drugs I have probably been worried about the illegality and the risk of addiction. I was addicted to alcohol though, but not anymore.
I would appeal to the (mostly) middle class occasional users on STW. It’s not a victimless crime, and, possession is a crime.
The distribution chain often uses addicts and slavery, extreme violence is used including firearms and then the profits are used to fuel more crime.
Combating the organised crime groups, insurance claims for the thefts that are carried out to feed addiction and the NHS resources that are used are a huge drain on our finances - money that good be used for good causes.
Pack it in and grow up!
It’s not a victimless crime, and, possession is a crime.
The distribution chain often uses addicts and slavery, extreme violence is used including firearms and then the profits are used to fuel more crime.
Combating the organised crime groups, insurance claims for the thefts that are carried out to feed addiction and the NHS resources that are used are a huge drain on our finances - money that good be used for good causes.Pack it in and grow up!
News flash - all that is the result of the illegality, the so called 'war on drugs'.
How do you think Al Capone got rich when alcohol was illegal?
Regulate it, treat addiction as a health issue rather than a criminal issue. Remove the social stigma. Pull the rug out from under the black market, tax it, and pump the profits directly into health and social services.
The alternative is keep doing more of the same, and complaining you don't get the results you want.
News flash - all that is the result of the illegality, the so called 'war on drugs'.
Yes, it probably is, but that doesn't alter the current legal status and the fact that anyone who "dabbles" NOW is directly contributing to the crime and misery. You can't absolve responsibility just by saying the system is wrong and wishing it were different. It is wrong, but we are where we are. You have to consider the implications of your actions under the systems as it is, not how you might wish it to be. Unless you don't care.
If and when drugs are legalised, fill your face with whatever you like with a free conscience. But if you do it under the current system, however wrong that system might be, do so knowing you are supporting violent organised crime and contributing to the abuse of vulnerable people that goes along with it. Pretending otherwise is just cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics to ease your conscience.
For the record, I agree the law is nuts and has been an abject failure. I would strongly support a significant relaxation and more pragmatic approach.
What Matty said x 100. this is why sensible forward looking countries are looking at their drug laws and decriminalising / treating as a healthcare issue
One example. heroin addiction. Its cost the country hugely in petty crime to fund habits. However if you have a clean supply of what is a fairly cheap to make drug that you can afford it causes few actual issues. Well of heroin addicts live long and fruitful lifes by and large
The problems of heroin addiction can be 90% laid at the feet of those who insist the war on drugs is the only approach.
Do you have the same attitude to alcohol? Its a huge part of acute admissions to hospital, is a source of much violence including in A&E. It costs the country far more than illegal drugs. I bet it causes far more violence as well
News flash - all that is the result of the illegality, the so called 'war on drugs'.
If and when drugs are legalised, fill your face with whatever you like with a free conscience.
That's really not the point I'm making. I don't take any illegal drugs for probably more than 20 years now, and by luck or skill I never had a real addiction issue. The only thing I 'fill my face with' these days, is artisan pork pies.
You can ignore the laws of supply and demand all you want.
Where there is demand, supply will come. You can't stop it, governments can't stop it over many decades and god knows how much wasted pubilc money on enforcement, so what's your biright new idea on how to tackle the problem?
Do you have the same attitude to alcohol? Its a huge part of acute admissions to hospital, is a source of much violence including in A&E. It costs the country far more than illegal drugs. I bet it causes far more violence as well
Alcohol is a huge problem, and there is violence resulting from it. No doubt. But not the supply chain which is what I'm talking about here. Not in the fields where the barley (or whatever) is harvested, or in the distilleries and breweries where it is processed or by the dealers who sell it. The producers and distributors aren't also involved in gang violence, murder, sex and people trafficking etc.
Ah - so one form of violence that tends to be inherent in the drug ( alcohol) is not as bad as the violence associated with some illegal drugs?
so what's your biright new idea on how to tackle the problem?
Legalise it. I've already I said I support that. But until that happens don't prioritise your brief pleasure over the misery all along the supply chain of countless vulnerable people.
so what's your biright new idea on how to tackle the problem?
Legalise it. I've already I said I support that. But until that happens don't prioritise your brief pleasure over the misery all along the supply chain of countless vulnerable people.
I lost my younger brother to heroin addiction.
I do not take any pleasure at all.
But I am pragmatic and a realist about it.
What you are saying is deeply offensive, and frankly, naive. That's the most polite way I can phrase it without being banned from this forum.
Ah - so one form of violence that tends to be inherent in the drug ( alcohol) is not as bad as the violence associated with some illegal drugs?
Come on TJ, you're better than that. You clearly know I did not say that. Alcohol abuse is a huge problem, I totally acknowledge that. Violence by users is probably greater than that caused by drug users. I would support much stricter controls on it and much better support for those who are addicted to it. Hell, I wouldn't personally be upset if it were banned, I barely touch it these days.
But here's the thing. I can buy a beer and drink it knowing this. People in the supply chain, often in poor countries are not being coerced, enslaved, mistreated and the sellers aren't doing a sideline in underage prostitution or people smuggling.
If you buy illegal drugs from some bloke you don't know, you probably are putting money in the pockets of those who do all that stuff. And you know it. And you're clearly OK with it. As long as you get your buzz.
I lost my younger brother to heroin addiction.
My words were not directed at you, but more generally at those who belittle the impact of their recreational purchasing choices. I am very sorry for your loss and meant you no offence. I'm sorry if that was the result. I stand by everything I said but will bow out of this thread now.
All cool blokeuptheroad. Its a valid point but also applies to other areas from cheap far eastern made fashion to the damage done by flying fresh food from the other side of the world.
People in the supply chain, often in poor countries are not being coerced, enslaved, mistreated and the sellers aren't doing a sideline in underage prostitution or people smuggling.
fast fashion does, out of season veg does
Fast fashion and out of season strawberries have not contributed to the increase in huge organised crime gangs, cuckooing, people trafficking, violence, and acquisitive crime as far as I know.
My views on drugs are that some should be legalised but until they are you purchasers are contributing, and, are part of the “market” and the rise in the misery.
Fast fashion and out of season strawberries have not contributed to the increase in huge organised crime gangs, cuckooing, people trafficking, violence, and acquisitive crime as far as I know.
Not much in the UK no - but cause huge issues in source countries from subsistance farmers getting kicked off their land or the water stolen so they can no longer feed their families to enslaved child labour in chinese factories to the damaging effects of the pollution. Be very sure that your cheap fashion, electronics and out of season veg comes at a huge human cost as well
There is some interesting work being done with e and mushrooms for mental illness. Very difficult to do in the UK because of our laws but some of it looks very promising.
I was doing a lot of research into this, on behalf of my late partner, who suffered from depression and drank to try to deal with it, and was also suicidal.
Psilocybin in the U.K. is difficult for researchers, but Ketamine is a legal drug with known risks, but by microdosing and using therapy, it’s showing remarkable promise.
Sadly, she suffered a stroke and died before any opportunity to look into treatment options could be found.
As for myself, I’m a moderate user of alcohol, never actually enjoyed being drunk. I smoked a cigarette once, a friend who lived up the road from me nicked some of his dad’s fags, and we went to the woods nearby and lit up.
Yuk! 😖 It was disgusting, one inhale and it put me off completely.
I worked for a few years with a designer who used to smoke joints in the studio, in fact almost everyone smoked apart from me, herbal inspiration, he called it!
One afternoon I went down to his place in Bath, prior to a gig that evening, and everyone there was smoking joints, but I refused to smoke anything, so Rich broke off a small piece of resin and said chew on this, you might get a hit…
… I was looking through one of his art books on Antoni Gaudi, and was seeing some really extraordinary things in the photos!
I was still pretty much off my head that night at the gig, which was Johnny Thunders, but I can’t remember anything about it, or the train ride home!
Never used anything like it again, for the same reason I don’t like getting drunk, it’s the loss of control, basically.
“Not much in the UK no - but cause huge issues in source countries from subsistance farmers getting kicked off their land or the water stolen so they can no longer feed their families to enslaved child labour in chinese factories to the damaging effects of the pollution. Be very sure that your cheap fashion, electronics and out of season veg comes at a huge human cost as well”
But, we can try and buy ethically sourced clothes and strawberries in season, from Britain to cut out the risk of human harm.
I think that it can be guaranteed that the drugs that you buy from your local drug dealer involve lots of criminal activity, lots of pain and human misery. I don’t think your attempts to divert your guilt really cut it.
By not participating in this crime you can directly help society.
I’m absolutely not going to incriminate myself.
I will say
I have taken a fair amount of Morphine, Codiene and diazepam in my time.
There are others.
Used to love, totally legally buying a bag of some fungi, which we’d sit and munch with the landlord of the local, with a few beers.
I think that it can be guaranteed that the drugs that you buy from your local drug dealer involve lots of criminal activity, lots of pain and human misery. I don’t think your attempts to divert your guilt really cut it.
Really? citation needed. some drug supply routes are very bad indeed. Many are not. Many are highly professional large scale import or manufacturing businesses but they are not the ones that get the publicity.
I am not attempting to divert guilt. Its a reasonable point. What I am trying to show is that this sort of ethical issue does not just involve the illegal drugs trade. It also exists in a lot of legal trade and also in recycling of plastics and electronics - its just in those instances all the abuse is outside of the UK.
he who is without sin cast the first stone
Again - the source of this harm is the prohibition. folk will always take drugs
“Really? citation needed. some drug supply routes are very bad indeed. Many are not. Many are highly professional large scale import or manufacturing businesses but they are not the ones that get the publicity.”
What an absolutely absurd statement. Yes, they’re run professionally, hence the label “organised crime”. They will all use threats and extreme violence to protect their businesses, if you think otherwise then you’re judgement is probably clouded by the effects of weed and pills!
I do agree that some drugs should perhaps be legalised, but, at this moment they are still illegal.
The UK have been the biggest producer and exporter of cannabis for medical and scientific research use in the world for near enough 10 years, shame that our governmen(s) do not trust their own population and make it available to all with age restrictions obviously as cannabis use when young and whilst the brain is developing can cause issues
hey will all use threats and extreme violence to protect their businesses, if you think otherwise then you’re judgement is probably clouded by the effects of weed and pills!
I'd love to know where you evidence is that they all are violent with links to human and sex trafficking
Love the idea that mundanely smoking weed every day is an escape from mundanity.
I've known a few people over the years who routinely smoked huge amounts of weed and on whom it had absolutely no observable effect. It certainly never lifted them out of the mundane or routine. Obviously I'm not party to their internal states but it did make me wonder why they bothered.
I'm interested to hear more about people's mushroom experiences. They're in season now are they not?
Oh indeed. folk for whom smoking weed is their entire life and personality become very dull
“I'd love to know where you evidence is that they all are violent with links to human and sex trafficking‘
I wonder how many people on here will agree with you that there are some warm and cuddly drug dealers?
Perhaps the ones that are appointed to sell to the better off classes are very polite - try not paying them for a deal or two and see how friendly they are then? Ask for a few weeks free supply and enjoy the vice like grip they get on your life and the life of family and friends.
Don't really know what the ins and outs of physical addiction Vs psychological dependence are but it seems to become a really insidious combination of 'this is who I am' leading to an acceptance of non achievement then smoke more to numb the frustration of not being who you might want to be.
I have some extremely smart and talented friends who basically completely gave up on trying to do anything with their life in favour of this 'lifestyle' choice.
I've lost touch with some very good friends to 1. protect myself and 2. because eventually you have very little in common.
Oh indeed. folk for whom smoking weed is their entire life and personality become very dull
I can’t imagine that people who smoke large amounts of weed generally get much done.
…. apart from regular walks to the 24 hour garage for Monster Munch, Kit Kats and more Rizla
This is an excellent podcast. Acid Dream: The Great LSD Plot.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0d6bs79
Ask for a few weeks free supply and enjoy the vice like grip they get on your life and the life of family and friends.
Errmmm - you really do not understand how any of this works do you?
What I am trying to show is that this sort of ethical issue does not just involve the illegal drugs trade
That is some world championship whataboutery right there. I'm sensing some guilty thoughts there tj, is there something you want to tell the group?
Are you buying those kilo trays of sweet sweet Peruvian blueberries from Tesco and making muffins or just mainlining the lot?
the whole organised crime aspect is an interesting one, and tbh, not one that i have readily connected the dots with mentally before this thread
I guess because I'm not really in the scene now, that all the latest information about it all really associates, it will now
but playing devils advocate...
Do we think that it's the same for all illegal drugs? i mean i can see poor farmers being exploited and worse for weed and coke, and can see the large cartels that sit in the chain being a big part of the problem. But what about the chemists knocking up MDMA and the latest synthetic drugs in labs? sure there will be a distribution network on top.. i guess i see that as a western thing, making stuff in holland etc...But in reality there could be labs anywhere, probably China etc... Basically, what I am wondering if all of these networks would have similar practices...
I guess when you are dealing with big money / long prison sentences, you are more likely to be doing "worse" things than making and distributing drugs, Breaking Bad I'm looking at you...
Tj, this is how it works round us, are Scottish drug dealers fluffy and warm. As for saying that I don’t know how it works, perhaps you can enlighten the class?
I'm ambivalent or even broadly positive about drug use in the abstract, and did plenty of it myself in the '00s. But I think to draw a moral equivalence between the drug trade and fast fashion is a huge huge stretch.
Drug gangs commit 1891 femicides in one year in Mexico
nine women and three men tortured and murdered by drug gang
24 people murdered in attack on drug rehab centre
two women raped and murdered, livestreamed on tiktok - this one was just this week
Everyone will surely agree that we could keep going with this list until it went off the bottom of the screen, across the table, onto the floor and out the door.
Fast fashion is pretty ****ing grim but it's nowhere near this horrendous, and this is where pretty much all coke comes from.
Like alanl, I like to imagine that easily synthesised chemicals coming from Holland have a far less gruesome provenance - I used to know a few people who bought pills by the thousand and they were all mild mannered speccy types - but really, the people they were buying from were likely to be far less pleasant.
Tj, this is how it works round us, are Scottish drug dealers fluffy and warm. As for saying that I don’t know how it works, perhaps you can enlighten the class?
there is little more I can say. Yes there is horrendous violent crime involved in SOME drug networks - those are the ones that come most often to light. There is a vest interest in political circles in creating this image that all drug networks are the same. This is all a part of the refer madness propaganda that has been running for years. The other reason you do not hear about the professional non violent types is they do not get busted and do not make the news.
Cops do not go after the ones not causing a social problem A few years ago and for many years one big centre of drug use and distribution was a pub across the road from a police station. Of course the cops knew what was going on but it was also peaceful and contained so it was left alone
Different drugs have different networks
I have never done illegal drugs but my daughters ex partner was a coke fiend. I saw texts from his dealer threatening to come and burn down our family home if he didn't sort out some payments. I have also experience of acquaintances being threatened with all sorts of nastiness when the cashflow wasn't as it should be. Sorry but if you think that the illegal drug trade is built on anything other than violence, intimidation, and exploitation then you are either naive or deluded.
The above case with the centre across the road from the cop shop was MDMA btw
TBH the entire land ownership system is akin to a massive criminal organisation. Just that the bastards who perpetrate it also happen to write the laws and made it legal. Barley, grapes and sugar cane for your totally ethical beer, wine and rum are grown on vast estates that used to have people living on them. All of these headlines could have been written about the process of booting them all off then exploiting them for profit.
The cocaine trade and the ill effects of its prohibition have ruined some countries / areas for sure. No question about that.