[Closed] Driving standards/sense of entitlement.

Oh the police may not have sent you advance written notification of the speed limit change, [u]but the signs would have been visible[/u], assuming you are actually observing things correctly, not just wafting along the road not paying attention to your surroundings.
Familiarity breeds contempt etc etc.

Nope the sign where my mother got done was completely INVISIBLE from anywhere except climbing up the tree (they had managed to somehow get the pole between two branches).... there was a photo in the local paper... and you couldn't SEE the actual sign let alone read it...

If that was the case then as bigyinn pointed out, everybody who got a ticket should have taken it to court where they'd have won.

[quote=bails ]Also, as GrahamS has mentioned, knowledge of speed limits was atrocious. This sign:

Means a limit anywhere betwene 40 and 80mph if you believe the attendees!

Well they're not so far off - until recently it was between 40 and 70 (and still is in Scotland).

Heading towards a road narrowing (Cold Ash) I have priority on bike. Dum bint in car gives way to the car in front of me then starts to pull away. I move over to make sure she doesnt have room so she goes the other way to try and get through on my inside. I just stop blocking her path. She then starts giving me abuse...

Well they're not so far off - until recently it was between 40 and 70 (and still is in Scotland).

Wut?

Well they're not so far off - until recently it was between 40 and 70 (and still is in Scotland).

Where on earth is the NSL 40? It's sixty on a single-carriageway and 70 on a dual-carriageway. It's never meant 40 anywhere in England in the 25+ years I've been driving (and I wasn't aware of Scotlandshire being any different).

[quote="aracer"]If that was the case then as bigyinn pointed out, everybody who got a ticket should have taken it to court where they'd have won.

Should or could ?

If I remember the automatic letter comes with a "If you take this to court we will do everything we can to TOTALLY screw you.... but if you just shut up and pay we will give you a discount" the whole wording is designed to scare people like my mum into just paying....

If it was me I'd be far more likely to challenge it.... my brother he'd relish challenging it and would gladly pay 10x the fine just to challenge (but he's like that) my mum on the other hand would just want to pay it and make it go away.... but she'd change her electricity/gas (and has) just to get rid of an aggressive sales person....

[i]Where on earth is the NSL 40?[/i]

HGV, single carriageway, Scotland?

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

when she ASKED she got told "Well Iceland is in the EU" (which is obviously incorrect

It's in the EEA, which is basically the same thing as far as passports are concerned.

Then I remembered same passport control being practically forcibly seperated from my kid... and forced through the electronic gates.... because I had a biometric passport and he is under 18.... whilst the 6yr old was told to queue up alone (and being pressured to just get on with it as i was holding people up)... then some snap decision by the supervisor and I was allowed to queue in the manual line with him

Nonsense. No one is "forced" to use the electronic gates.

I travel a lot and there is absolutely nothing wrong with signage in UK airports and the immigration officers are very pleasant and sensible.

Where on earth is the NSL 40

I suspect aracer is talking about Goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes MLW which in Scotland are restricted to 40mph on single carriageways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom#National_speed_limits

It's in the EEA, which is basically the same thing as far as passports are concerned.

I travel pretty much weekly and it is [u]never[/u] safe to assume something is basically the same with visa's and passports....

here is absolutely nothing wrong with signage in UK airports

Well which one is it? The signage is obviously wrong as Iceland, Norway and Litchenstein are in the EAA but not EU and Switzerland is neither but "is basically the same as far as passports are concerned"

But the point is [b]the sign say's European Passports[/b] which is a nonsensical term.... it means nothing as there is no such thing as a European Passport... Lots of countries are in Europe (including part of Turkey to be pedantic) but including Romania for example... Obviously a Romanian has a European passport.... (as it was issued by a European sovereign state)... but I'm fairly certain that is ot what they mean by European passport.

[b]But they are not basically the same.... [/b]
Which queue for example should a Swiss or Norwegian traveller go into in the Ukraine.... the Ukraine + EU queue or "other"

Nonsense. No one is "forced" to use the electronic gates.

[img] [/img]

Top thread tangent action!

That got me all thinking that in the UK we are just really bad at rules and signs

We're really not. You should try the USA.

Re 'European passports' maybe they meant anyone with a passport from a European country? After all most of them will be EU so the queue will be quicker - but they can still check non-EU ones. Seems a reasonable way to divide up the queues, somewhat.

What we are really good at in the UK is moaning, which you seem to be demonstrating quite nicely.

but I'm fairly certain that is ot what they mean by European passport.

See now you're second guessing the signs.. which is what pepole do all the time here. 50mph in roadworks at 7pm? Well, they've clearly all gone home, haven't they, so that doesn't apply any more of course, so I can speed... oh dear what's this ticket.. those damn revenue generating cops how dare they? etc etc

I travel pretty much weekly and it is never safe to assume something is basically the same with visa's and passports....

The EEA Agreement provides for the inclusion of EU legislation covering the four freedoms — the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital — throughout the 31 EEA States.

So in case of the EU and EEA passports being the same thing it's very safe to do so.

But the point is the sign say's European Passports which is a nonsensical term.

But they don't.

Gatwick

[img] [/img]

Heathrow[img] [/img]

Heathrow

The one at T5 [u]now[/u] say's European Passports....
Your examples are what they [u]should[/u] say.... (or perhaps it's one sign)....

The reason I checked yesterday was because the last time at T5 I was with the Icelandic woman (well just walked from the plane together not like married) then on the flight BA distinctly announced "European Passports" which i figured was them making a mistake... but then when I landed I got told "European Passports" (by the official guys wearing the purple)... and the NEW sign said as I remember European Passports .. so even if some of the signs are still correct the people directing everyone are contradicting the signs....

The reason this was bouncing round my head was because when I landed at CPH the Hilton at the airport has changed hands but every single sign has been updated.... to the new name...(Clarion)

When we left T5 my colleague (with a European but not EU/EEA passport) had his boarding card already issued.... went to the check-in and got refused by the machine... then had to go and queue up to get his visa checked...

Luckily his visa was in English.... whereas last time I had to queue for the visa check you can't get the boarding card issued until you queue at the visa check.... but then the T5 visa check is for "Moscow, St Petersburg and Kiev" flights + long haul only....but it took an extra few minutes as the guy at the visa check can't read cyrillic and had to call a guy over???

The whole thing is just poor.... just the idea you can issue a boarding pass then refuse it because of a procedure that's not available to the customer... [b]How hard would it be when you check-in to warn you you need to do a visa check? [/b]

The one at T5 now say's European Passports....
Your examples are what they should say.... (or perhaps it's one sign)....

Google Terminal 5 and check the images. I think you're mistaken.

You do understand the Border is controlled by the Border Agency and not bu the airport and that the signage is standard throughout the UK?

. How hard would it be when you check-in to warn you you need to do a visa check?

I'm not sure what you mean here? Whenever I check in and I'm flying outside the EEA, the staff check I have the correct visa and introduction letter if necessary. They won't let me check in without it. Even having to give a hotel address when using an ESTA to travel to the US.

We're really not. You should try the USA.

That's a pretty low bar....

Re 'European passports' maybe they meant anyone with a passport from a European country? After all most of them will be EU so the queue will be quicker - but they can still check non-EU ones. Seems a reasonable way to divide up the queues, somewhat.

50mph in roadworks at 7pm? Well, they've clearly all gone home, haven't they, so that doesn't apply any more of course, so I can speed
Except the EU/EFTA/Swiss ones are all automatic machines.... (which it seems have joined a union so that 1/2 of them are not working and on strike at any point?)

[b]See now you're second guessing the signs.. which is what pepole do all the time here[/b].

That's my point....

50mph in roadworks at 7pm? Well, they've clearly all gone home, haven't they, so that doesn't apply any more of course, so I can speed

Why put workers in the road if there are not workers in the road...

oh dear what's this ticket.. those damn revenue generating cops how dare they? etc etc

After the 40 it went to 50 then 60 then no speed limit... with no reason I could see for it having ever been reduced to 40 in the first place??? It was about 07:00 in the morning on a Sunday (on my way to a race)

This overall has changed my perception from "it's a speed limit for a reason" to someone is sat in a control centre just flicking buttons... or selecting drop downs or however its done and now I watch my speed to avoid getting a ticket unlike the previous decades of driving when I kept to speed limits for safety or because that was the speed limit.

It's changed me into focusing on not getting caught instead of just driving well. The PCN for the bus lane has left me unwilling to repeat good driving and pulling over for emergency services...

Google Terminal 5 and check the images. I think you're mistaken.

You do understand the Border is controlled by the Border Agency and not bu the airport and that the signage is standard throughout the UK?

That is what I understood, my most recent trips however I have Terminal Staff (BAA) telling people which queue.... and T5 has changed the border control part...

I'm not sure what you mean here? Whenever I check in and I'm flying outside the EEA, the staff check I have the correct visa and introduction letter if necessary. They won't let me check in without it. Even having to give a hotel address when using an ESTA to travel to the US.

And that has been my PAST experience but I can assure you yesterday my colleague had a boarding pass... and when I flew to St Petersburg last month I got issued a boarding pass then got to the machines and got refused and sent back....

I've always worked with the rule you can't actually get a boarding pass until the visa checks are done.... both of these were BA flights and from T5....

Why put workers in the road if there are not workers in the road...

Trying to bring this somewhat back to topic:

How do you know there aren't any workers? You might not see them, but that's kind of the point isn't it? It's because you might not see them that they have to put the speed limits up. They might be there late in the evening, in fact they often are - even overnight. And it's a lot of work to put the roadworks away ever day.

After the 40 it went to 50 then 60 then no speed limit... with no reason I could see for it having ever been reduced to 40 in the first place??? It was about 07:00 in the morning on a Sunday (on my way to a race)

Why do you need a reason? Questioning everything is great, and an admirable activity in general - but when you are a single part of a huge complex system that needs to run perfectly otherwise people die - it's not such a great idea, is it? Just stick to the limit and get over yourself.

If the limits don't seem reasonable, write to someone.

Steve - Sorry mate but are you Richard Littlecock taking a break from the Daily Mail?

You just seem to be ranting and exaggerating non-existent problems and blaming "them" for the non-existent problems.

There are loads of mistakes in what you are saying.

If an auto gate doesn't work you don't have to queue up again, you go through a manned desk very quickly. Besides, the majority of delays at the auto gates is operator error and complete stupidity. Not the machines.

This mythical, suddenly appearing mini roundabout, I have never seen one, in the way you describe. Do you have a Google link?

A lot of 3rd hand tales about ridiculous policing and traffic calming.

I could go on.

[b]stevextc [/b]: Please share a streetview link for the mini-RAB you mentioned.

Is that like the guy in the spanking new Audi coupe on the M4 earlier?
The one who thought it was acceptable to sit in lane 2 of 2.
Refusing to move
With lane 1 empty.
Who then swerved to block both lanes to stop anyone passing.
Who then decided to go purple gesticulating
Whilst deciding to use said Audi as a ram.
To try to force me off the road.
Considering I was on the bike.
With a pair of cameras recording.
Strangely enough he didn't want to pull over and talk about it.
Images are currently being downloaded

Parking is definitely the thing to give people a sense of entitlement. Even people who's driving is otherwise fine, when challenged on parking inconsiderately (on the pavement more often than not), the stock response is something along the lines of "there's nowhere else to park".

[IMG] [/IMG]

Down the bottom end of my road, at the point where it curves through roughly 90°.
Reinforces my antipathy towards BMW drivers. #eyeroll

Heading downhill into Edenfield on Saturday (on the road bike) doing 35+mph in a 40 zone. It's a fairly bendy road, I look over my shoulder just before a bend to find a Rover sat 2ft off my rear wheel at 35mph.
I'm taking Primary, there is oncoming traffic & I'm moving fast downhill. He STILL attempts an overtake, passing within 18" of me whilst glaring at me as he passes.
He was perfectly happy to put my life at risk simply because (I've no doubt) he considers himself better than a mere cyclist.

After the 40 it went to 50 then 60 then no speed limit...

well, firstly there's no such thing as a 'no speed limit' section, and I'm sure you know that, but if you're going to be so picky about everything you should at least be factually accurate yourself 😉

with [i]no reason I could see [/i]for it having ever been reduced to 40 in the first place??? It was about 07:00 in the morning on a Sunday (on my way to a race)

What a perfect demonstration of the thread title! A sense of entitlement right there if ever I saw it, the rules apply no matter what time you happen to be travelling or the reason for your journey.

And just because [i]you[/i] cannot comprehend or recognise a reason doesn't mean there wasn't one, sure you [i]could[/i] be right, but based on your contribution to this thread so far I'm putting your descriptions and opinions firmly in the 'take with pinch of salt' category, that might make you might form your own opinions of me, but I'm OK with that.

It's changed me into focusing on not getting caught instead of just driving well

Why not be awesome and do both?

I wonder why some other countries don't have similar issues?

Was in the car with the Mrs a few days ago, residential street, fairly typical situation with parked cars so it's single file traffic, with the odd place to pull in if you are lucky, on this occasion there wasn't, so we're driving down as the road was clear, and a car turns in from a more main road at the bottom.

There's clearly no where for them or us to go, but they still looked like they were going to try. Lots of beeping and gesturing from them.

No harm done but a complete lack of awareness coupled with a sense of entitlement seems to be a regular occurrence these days.

it curves through roughly 90°.
Reinforces my antipathy towards BMW drivers. #eyeroll

It's not just BMW drivers though. I'd boot thier wing mirror off personally, what if someone in a wheelchair needs to get by?

I'm not against parking on the kerb if there's still a good amount of space, but if you are forcing people to walk, or roll into the road then there's no excuse.

with no reason [b]I could see[/b] for it having ever been reduced to 40 in the first place???

That doesn't discount that there could have been something that was removed/crawled off the carriageway before you arrived. Perhaps some debris removed by the police before they shot off with it in their boot. Who knows - I doubt there's some bod flicking a switch just for shits and giggles.

Worrying about the "no limit" perception, too...

Edit : Sorry, just banging on without reading Amedias' post, who basically wrote the same thing. Consider yourself told, young man. 🙂

Stop me if it's already been covered but.....women with too much make-up driving Chelsea tractors, and their inability to park sensibly. Our little town street seems to be a particular favourite for such creatures.

After a trip up the A9 at Easter, I'd put forward cars with boot mounted bike racks and no lighting bar (goes for flame proof suit). Covering your brake lights isn't cool. Also cars towing caravans without extension mirrors. Illegal and makes rear visibility worse than it already is.

Roundabouts seem to be treated as race circuits. Just as you think it's clear out pops another boy/girl/middle-aged/granny/grandad racer from round the corner.

On a dual-carriage way the other day, motor home overtakes a tractor as do I and we approach roundabout at same time in each lane. My ego was a little hurt by this bloody motor home almost out-accellerating me. Was a struggle but I just managed to beat the swine in our C5 (but not the fiat punto right up my aris).

I think there are two issues , one is ... perhaps elderly drivers who are so hesitant they seem petrified and who arguably should not be driving due to poor vision, nervousness /hesitancy

[quote=GrahamS ]I suspect aracer is talking about Goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes MLW which in Scotland are restricted to 40mph on single carriageways.

I thought "until recently" and "still is in Scotland" would be sufficient clues! It's not a completely pedantic point - I thought one of the reasons for using the NSL sign rather than a specific speed limit is that the limit varies depending on what vehicle you're in (the other being that they don't have to post speed limit signs at the start and end of D/Cs - except of course for the rare cases like this: https://goo.gl/maps/JFSY2ovWadx - intriguingly there's about 50m where the limit is 70!)

So basically everybody else is a poor driver?

Its not that motor vehicles are now an extension of out bodies and we see any restriction on them is a restriction on us?

Or that that we have a fractured society with little sense of cohesion- you are not part of my community just another adversary to overcome.

Got my driving test in a minute....

Cross your fingers 😉

driving is just one version of society.
Selfish.
No one really cares as long as they get what they want.
Shops open all week, faster paying, better access to land they don't own, riding bikes on footpaths, faster broadband, all living in the countryside extending small houses to make big ones, going on holiday when they want to, having anything they want and hang the expense to their pocket, body or country, riding en masse when it doesn't fit the road, digging up perfectly smooth natural trails, chucking litter out of windows.
And you know what. Its condoned by the rest of us. Serves us bloody well right.

[quote=Molgrips"]Why do you need a reason?
Because driving doesn't work if you simply follow the "speed limit" ...

How do you know there aren't any workers? You might not see them, but that's kind of the point isn't it?

But why do I need a reason ?
Because I am not going to follow a rule that doesn't make sense or worse is actually dangerous.

I had to slam the brakes on at 70 .. hard enough to rattle the bike frames together when the sign came up 40 mph ... luckily there were no other cars behind me.... otherwise I would have had to make a snap decision of speeding ticket or potential crash.
(or perhaps the camera has some delay from the speed limit changing to the camera limit changing - I don't know so I would have been trying to avoid a ticket anyway) - This whole automated thing (from speed limits changing to bus lane violations) has not in a lot of cases been properly thought out as regards actual safety... I find it hard to believe the police would issue a ticket if they observed you pull into a bus lane to let a fire engine through.. but the automated system doesn't care.

Equally I'm more than happy to use lights after lighting up hours but I am not going to change pedals to comply with a pointless law.

[quote="wilbert"]
I wonder why some other countries don't have similar issues?

Well I'm not saying other countries do or don't.... but what I have perceived from the last 35 yrs driving in the UK

A couple of illustrations ... Molgrips didn't know that it is actually an offence to touch the centre of a mini roundabout. I'll be honest, neither did I until a couple of years ago when I looked it up having seen the police stopping cars and issuing fines. I'd guess most people who passed their test 30 yrs ago wouldn't know.

What is the difference between a pavement and a footpath and why it's illegal for a bike to ride over a pavement but not a car...?

For years it was illegal to use LED lights on a bike (unless they were so bright as to be actually dangerous) as the law said they had to use a fixed amount of power that was designed in the times when EverReady was state of the art bike lighting... again... why do something that puts me in danger just to uphold some law that no-one bothered to update.

I thought "until recently" and "still is in Scotland" would be sufficient clues! [b]It's not a completely pedantic point[/b] - I thought one of the reasons for using the NSL sign rather than a specific speed limit is that the limit varies depending on what vehicle you're in (the other being that they don't have to post speed limit signs at the start and end of D/Cs - except of course for the rare cases like this: https://goo.gl/maps/JFSY2ovWadx - intriguingly there's about 50m where the limit is 70!)

It's a point that is open to creating a lot of confusion.... even ignoring the 40 mph part for Scotland.

intriguingly there's about 50m where the limit is 70!

well, firstly there's no such thing as a 'no speed limit' section, and I'm sure you know that, but if you're going to be so picky about everything you should at least be factually accurate yourself

good point ... however luckily I don't write the Acts.... and on this forum it seems a review process actually picks up on this... [b]unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case in traffic regulations[/b].

If an auto gate doesn't work you don't have to queue up again, you go through a manned desk very quickly. Besides, the majority of delays at the auto gates is operator error and complete stupidity. Not the machines.

Frequently half the machines are not working.... (or are working but turned off) ... when the queue gets longer they get turned back on... because it's all about creating a delay ... the aim is actually to create a delay because studies have found that one of the major complaints in frequent fliers is waiting for baggage so airports deliberately introduce as much delay as possible before the baggage collection.

There is some management study done on this where it is easier to delay everyone that get the baggage to the carousel faster.... (I can't remember where I read it and don't have time to google) and this results in less dissatisfaction score than people arriving at the carousel early. This is similar to fake buttons on crossings... again studies show if you add a fake button people will wait before crossing even though the button does nothing to change the actual timing but just lights up.

If an auto gate doesn't work you don't have to queue up again, you go through a manned desk very quickly.

But you have already caused delay/cost* to everyone behind you.
*charges for parking/taxi parking etc.
But this is more revenue for the airport just as there are deliberately not enough seats to force people into shops and food places it's by design not accident and it's there to actually inconvenience people to make more profit.

This just seems a similar thing to traffic regulations.
It's lost its way ... and the focus has turned to revenue not safety.

It's only about a decade ago the government quietly announced a change to guidance for traffic lights inside towns... this was previously to cause as much delay and acceleration/deceleration to traffic as possible to burn extra fuel.... to generate more revenue... (this was guidance not forced but this is what the guidance previously stated) Even ignoring the environmental impact this just sounds UNSAFE....

I remember a decade ago in Sydney... pretty much everything in Sydney seems to be regulated by fines.. There was an old sign on the train and pulling the communication cord without reason was something like $20.... then there were a set of newer fines... including leaving articles of clothing on the train that were something like $100 (it was litter but then went on to define litter as left including clothing or bags)

It was almost tempting to pull the communication cord as it seemed like such a bargain which is where revenue generation becomes a business!

Mobile phones etc. were banned in hospitals etc. right until they had a revenue stream... then suddenly it turns out every life support in the hospital doesn't suddenly stop working...

The whole point of this is twofold....
1) Many regulations are based not of safety but revenue (or bribes in the case of traffic calming) - one of the local business owners told me months ago who the contractor was going to be for the speed bumps... I was told they paid off their inside people before the "residents consultation" was even undertaken. As of yesterday he was spot on with the chosen contractor!

2) If people consistently don't see the point in following something and they can get away with it they increasingly do.

How many people can hold their hands up and say they have never ridden after lighting up hours without pedal reflectors?
Who would seriously walk a bike home 10 miles if they had lights but no pedal reflectors? (Just cos its the law)

I think it's pretty well determined that a decade ago police and local councils started installing hidden speed signs and cameras for revenue detection .... there are numerous cases where this has been proven in court but a VERY high percentage of people never challenge. There are numerous documented cases of councils continuing to issue PCN's that they have already had proven to be illegal... the reason being because so few get challenged it still provides revenue....

[quote="wilbert"]
I wonder why some other countries don't have similar issues?
Well to give one example.... In Norway you cannot park within a distance of a bend... a friend of mine did by about 2-3mm... but it was pretty clear all the same and the bends have a specifically marked point from which to measure....

Whilst in the UK

http://www.****/news/article-3973644/Contractors-painted-double-yellow-lines-garage-owner-s-car-dragging-leaving-parking-ticket.html

driving is just one version of society.
Selfish.
No one really cares as long as they get what they want.
Shops open all week, faster paying, better access to land they don't own, riding bikes on footpaths, faster broadband, all living in the countryside extending small houses to make big ones, going on holiday when they want to, having anything they want and hang the expense to their pocket, body or country, riding en masse when it doesn't fit the road, digging up perfectly smooth natural trails, chucking litter out of windows.
And you know what. Its condoned by the rest of us. Serves us bloody well right.

This is all true.... to different extents.
Which is why I think that laws etc. need to be clear AND have a reason (that isn't revenue generation)

What you describe is broadly self accountability.... and taking responsibility for our own actions. No-one initially forced people to use out of town supermarkets but the same people then complain when their local services disappear....

Driving seems to me to have have changed from driving safely and considerately to fine/point avoidance...

When i had my driving lessons back in the 90's my driving instructor told me the golden rule is nothing you do should cause someone else to brake or swerve etc. even if they are actually in the wrong...
Today it seems far more like "but I'm in the right so damn it" and increasingly "there is no camera so what the hell"

Is the two second rule still relevant on today's roads? Or has it been amended to two car lengths irrespective of speed without me being informed? I honestly think some people are unable to match the speed of the vehicle in front unless they are within spitting distance of it.

two car lengths

That's a bit lax - they get within one around these parts; small herds of 'em trundling along.

[tangent thread]

I've always worked with the rule you can't actually get a boarding pass until the visa checks are done.... both of these were BA flights and from T5....

not my experience if you check in on line and use automated bag drop - recent trip hadn't realised older daughter didn't have electronic visa for Canada (she'd been just before introduced, I assumed had been around a while like US one and as still had passport with Canada stamps in she had one) got phone call from airline on way to gate, we were last on the plane
Canada to Aus' pulled aside right at boarding by airline staff and phone call made quoting passport numbers to god knows who to but got an OK - UK citizen, resident in Aus, Uk passport, electronic visa for Aus, boarding pass in hand

In old days you produced a piece of paper to a person at check in [end tangent}

Nice example on this morning's (car) commute. I'm driving along, there is a white van approaching in the opposite lane with a parked car in his way. The road isn't wide enough for 3 vehicles.

Sensible approach: van should wait behind the parked car till I am out the way.

Actual approach: van swings out at the last second forcing me to mount the kerb to avoid hitting him. 👿

Is the two second rule still relevant on today's roads? Or has it been amended to two car lengths irrespective of speed without me being informed?

Yep! I've made this point many times before. Practically no one observes the two second rule.

[url= https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2+seconds+at+30mph ]Two seconds at 30mph[/url] is a distance of over 26 meters.

[url= https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2+seconds+at+70mph ]Two seconds at 70 mph[/url] is a distance of over 62 meters!

But the reality is you're lucky to get two car lengths, regardless of your speed.

Small wonder then that we get pile ups on motorways or cyclists getting killed on urban roads because the car behind couldn't see them till it was too late.

In old days you produced a piece of paper to a person at check in [end tangent}

Which is kinda my point ... "progress" has been made but in many cases simply at the expense of the customer based on process flowcharts that have a single parameter of cost.

The result just seems to be people will end up missing flights etc. but that's OK as they overbooked the flight anyway...

But the reality is you're lucky to get two car lengths, regardless of your speed.

I'm fairly convinced this is because leaving a safe gap is now interpreted as an invitation for someone to pull out in front of you ... which then itself leads to unsafe situations as you brake then the car too close behind you brakes etc.