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Also people are brain dead enough to complain about being stuck daily in rush hour traffic. [i]You are the problem[/i] you idiot!I had the unpleasant experience of having to get from the East of Manchester to the west in the rush hour. People do that journey every day, in both directions.
I know people who lease two cars for the family, spending £500+ on cars they don't own every month. That's ludicrous.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/audi-tts-driven-exclusively-by-people-who-cant-really-afford-them-2014052186817 ]Indeed[/url] 😀
Also people are brain dead enough to complain about being stuck daily in rush hour traffic. You are the problem you idiot!
excellent contribution, 10/10
would read again
Our entire civilisation is based on growth
Absent an agreed definition of 'civilisation' ... and 'growth' for that matter. Plants grow, for instance and get recycled.
Other types of growth not so much:
[img] http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-04-08-OceanPlasticsEarthDrReeseHalter [/img]
Complaining about traffic while driving a car is a bit like going swimming and moaning about getting wet.
Douglas Adams was right when he named one of his characters Ford Prefect* - they were visting from Beetlegeuse and had mistaken the dominant life form. Naming themselves after a car seemed like the best way to blend in.
*suppose it would be Ford Focus these days
molgrips: I've seen stuff like that in other countries.
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But if anything the UK is moving away from any notion of integrated public transport. Most trains don't take bikes now (or only have room for two at off peak times, provided nobody in a wheelchair needs the space) and I've never seen a regular public transport bus or tram with a bike rack.
In Newcastle [url= http://road.cc/content/news/52483-tyne-wear-metro-operator-rejects-calls-allow-trial-letting-bikes-trains ]after years of campaigning[/url] they finally plan to run a six-month trial of allowing bikes on the Metro this autumn [i]"in order to understand the benefits to users of being able to use bicycles on the Metro system along with any restrictions which are needed "[/i]
Naturally the trial is only operating between a couple of stations, at off-peak times:
[b]Scheme rules[/b]• Bicycles can be carried between Jesmond and Callerton Parkway in both directions Monday – Friday, 1000 hours – 1500 hours only;
• No bicycles will be allowed during engineering works which affect this area of the network due to bus access restrictions;
• Bicycles must be stored safely in the designated area and not left unattended at any time;
• A maximum of two bicycles per train (one per carriage) can be carried at any one time;
• Where a wheelchair user is already on board the cyclist will need to move to another Metrocar or wait for the next service;
• Where a wheelchair user intends to board the cyclist will need
to move to another Metrocar or wait for the next service.
🙄
I love to drive to trail centers and ride my bike, I'm not one of those losers who needs to ride to work. A man has a right to jump in his Audi and go!
But if anything the UK is moving away from any notion of integrated public transport
I've got so many rants about public transport I'd better not start. (Oh I will - after many years of opposing a bypass, to take traffic away from my neighbourhood, the council built a bus lane specially for the new bendy buses. Because, what public transport needs is to go down a road where there's nobody to pick up. 🙄 The bendy buses are now being retired for various reasons only a few years after massively redesigning the city centre to accomodate them.)
Anyway, I went to a funeral yesterday about 20 miles away. A town right next to the M4. My MiL got the bus - it took two and a half hours to get there. Why do people bother with cars?
^^^^
It's stuff like that that really pisses me off.
Everyone acknowledges that increased cycling is a Good Thing.
Central government, health professionals, Local government all agree, more cycling is a Good Thing.
But on the ground the square root of chuff all is actually done to support it. There are portions of the press that actively portray cycling negatively as well.
There are portions of the press that actively portray cycling negatively as well.
The local paper was trying to stir up debate on the cost of the new cycle lane to the new uni campus. How many millions are we talking? £50,000.
I'd have thought that was a bargain, but it seems that not everyone agrees.
after many years of opposing a bypass, to take traffic away from my neighbourhood, the council built a bus lane specially for the new bendy buses. Because, what public transport needs is to go down a road where there's nobody to pick up. The bendy buses are now being retired for various reasons only a few years after massively redesigning the city centre to accomodate them
argh!
but, does that provide the opportunity to campaign for the council to designate these nice new bus lanes as cycle routes?
How many millions are we talking? £50,000.
I'd have thought that was a bargain, but it seems that not everyone agrees.
People have no idea how much is spent on roads though.
£50 grand is still £28 grand less than the cost of ONE YARD of the M74.
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Total cost of the 5-mile extension to the M74? [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13931242 ]£692 million[/url]
Spend a lot of times on the roads as part of my job, quote often able to sit there (going nowhere on the m25 normally) and and muse objectively at the sheer madness of it all.
How bad does it have to get before there is a real change? And what would that change be? It's one of those profoundly difficult (and depressing) problems we face*. Surely something has to give, as it's only going to get a lot lot worse. So what is the solution?
My thoery - mass public transit systems of some description, possibly yet to be invented, and 'cars' being increasingly the preserve of the rich/privileged.
Either that or a dramatic reduction/removal in the requirement for so many people to move around.
*See also; Obesity, over population, dwindling natural resources, economic inequality, etc..
How bad does it have to get before there is a real change?
Well the government gave a pretty strong signal on their commitment to public transport when, within 3 seconds of being elected, they scrapped all the promised rail improvements to George's 'Northern Powerhouse'.
The railways in the north are a shambles. Truly terrible services, with ancient rolling stock running on victorian tracks. There will now be no investment. Or in the similarly awful road links between the northern cities.
We will be getting HS2 though. A huge ****ing stupid white elephant that will cost christ knows how much, and allow bankers to buy big 2nd homes in the Peak District at some indeterminable point in the future.
Unlike trying to get the wife, 3 kids and the mother in law on to a bicycle to transport them 70 miles for a weekend away which is massively efficient compared to going in the car.
Which has chuff all to do with commuting to work. It is simply a fact that most car journeys are short and single-occupancy.
UK
integrated public transport.
It's a real shame, but the sad fact is that public transport in the UK - as a general rule - is simply utter, utter, utter c*ck.
Unless you (by happy accident) live right next to a mainline station, and want to visit somewhere right next to a mainline station. Otherwise I cannot think of a single reason why anyone would want to use it.
As binners posted earlier in thread, if you are remotely near the countryside, forget it, you're better off calling for a taxi.
The older I get, the more I'm becoming anti-mass-excessive-default usage of the fossil-fuel burning private motor vehicle. The amount of damage this behaviour does to the drivers, everyone else in the community and to the planet is collossal...
The good news is now more than any other time in my life (born 1973), we're beginning to accept this, have a dialogue about it and agitate for change. I guess the damage has got so great now - global warming, pollution, obesity, that we can't ignore it - the costs are so clearly greater than the benefits.
You can see from the abuse and bullying meted out to cyclists that a lot of people (in the UK at least) are struggling to cope with the change that's happening, but if you look at government, health professionals and other people who make decisions about how we live, and they're moving in the right direction, albeit at snail's pace...
It'll be interesting to see what the VW situation does to force the debate - this looks likely to impact many more manufacturers. It may wreck VW. It's put the fact that driving is poisoning us all with the fumes right out there into the spotlight - and we all have to face up to this as drivers - we're as complicit as the manufacturers.
I'm particularly interested in this
- can you post up some links please? I get the feeling that people are so isolated from the outside world in modern cars that they effectively lose all compassion/conscience and awareness of the damage they're doing - almost psychopathic when you think it through - people behave far worse in cars then they do when walking, cycling or are on the bus...jamj1974 - Member
Som of the research into the psychology behind driving behaviours is very interesting and somewhat disturbing...
The good news is that this 'addiction' we have to excessive use of the car is relatively recent - back in the 70's and 80's far more people cycled or shared cars - we just have to turn the clock back 30 years to make massive positive change.
I think excessive use of car has gone hand-in-hand with excessive consumerism and debt - and the tide is turning on both these things- we're looking at secular stagnation - static/falling real incomes and living standards. This will help people reconsider how much they can afford to drive everywhere, all the time.
I think everything's falling into place to bring about change but there's vested interests, poor leadership from government, resistance to change amongst the population and utter stupidity to overcome before we get to travel utopia...
I used to ride the 14 miles into work. The reaction I'd get when I said I'd done that was like I'd announced I'd run 5 back-to-back marathons, then done a few thousand press-ups for good measure.
This x 1000
When I tell people I cycled 30 miles at the weekend or cycled from Bolton to Blackpool, I might as well have 2 heads they just don't get it.
Apart from the Bikeabilty lot who you have to justify driving in to........" Had to drive in, I'm at my other job at 11 and I didn't have time to cycle" 😀
The obvious question then, is [i]what would it take for you make a change?[/i]Spend a lot of times on the roads as part of my job, quote often able to sit there (going nowhere on the m25 normally) and and muse objectively at the sheer madness of it all.How bad does it have to get before there is a real change?
I think excessive use of car has gone hand-in-hand with excessive consumerism and debt - and the tide is turning on both these things- we're looking at secular stagnation - static/falling real incomes and living standards. This will help people reconsider how much they can afford to drive everywhere, all the time.
Thats true. But the problem is that public transport in this country isn't really 'public' at all. Its a collection of private monopolies, who can charge what the hell they like for operating a frankly appalling service, and just carry on milking taxpayer subsidies to pay large dividends to their shareholders. This represents their sole priority, and the actual providing a service bit is neither here nor there. Richard Branson (off the record of course) referred to the West Coast Mainline as 'a licence to print money'. No wonder he wants more rail franchises. Its handing people a private monopoly with a guarantee of no competition. What do they think will happen?
Look at the price of walking into Manchester Piccadilly and booking a return train ticket to London, or somewhere really inaccessible, like Bristol, then ask yourself why most people just drive instead. The price of fuel could triple and it'd still be way cheaper than getting the train.
Its no wonder that even the majority of affluent Tory voters in the South East (the ones who actually receive the most public transport investment, by a country mile) want the railways re-nationalised. The whole system is a complete dogs dinner. The 'service' is generally appalling, and the costs are enormous. But, hey... the shareholders are making money, so its all ok, right?
Its a joke! Except it isn't very funny. Unless you're...
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I've said before, when I am declared Grand Emperor of the World one of my greatest acts will be to make all public transport state-owned and completely free at the point of use.
Unfortunately I'm unlikely to get the job, as I don't fancy being noshed off by a dead pig.
Last night I stuck on R4 and there was a programme discussing car ownership and had some from Helsinki talking about a system where you pay a monthly fee (300 euros?) and basically could use a car, bus, bike, train, etc., any time you liked. The jist of it was that a car spends the majority of the time sat static taking up space. If people 'hired' only when they needed to it would utilise the vehicle properly and just as importantly wouldn't require that wasteful space for parking. Imagine how much space an existing city would gain if there was practically zero parking required.
I thought it made sense (although I was only half listening...).
here it is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b069x6fv
If you just want a quick flash, this might be of interest:
Long distance buses here have bike racks on them.
Pretty much every non-urban line bus I've seen in Switzerland and Liechtenstein too have bike racks on them, although I imagine that could vary across specific locations. Here bikes are free on bus, tram and local trains, but wheelchairs take priority, but tbh, one may as well ride anyway.
The carriage jammed with bikes in the pic up there looks interesting.
small amount of rain...
"You rode today? through all this rain??" er yeah it's only spitting but the smallest amount of rain and you put your wipers on cos you have to, ergo it rains a lot in this country (it doesn't)
same for the cold days - it's not that cold
What I don't understand is that a car containing one person has priority over a group of people trying to cross the road!?
Look at the price of walking into Manchester Piccadilly and booking a return train ticket to London, or somewhere really inaccessible, like Bristol, then ask yourself why most people just drive instead.
Binners, it's like that because the trains (at peak times) are full. Make it cheaper, and you woudn't get any more tickets sold.
small amount of rain..."You rode today? through all this rain??" er yeah it's only spitting but the smallest amount of rain and you put your wipers on cos you have to, ergo it rains a lot in this country (it doesn't)
I had that last Friday.
"you didn't ride in did you? You're either brave or stupid in this weather"
It's just rain. I don't mind getting a bit wet on the way in (as long as I'm not soaked through) and couldn't care less if it tips it down on the way home. It's only 12 miles.
What I don't understand is that a car containing one person has priority over a group of people trying to cross the road!?
Road tax mentality innit. Highway entitlement is 9/10ths of The Perceived Law
The carriage jammed with bikes in the pic up there looks interesting.
That's [url= http://www.caltrain.com ]Caltrain[/url] in the States. They have two "Bike Cars" on their trains and carry up to 80 bikes.
They even have a system of "Destinations Tags" so other cyclists know where you are getting off.
That Caltrain system looks brilliant! Why the hell don't our British companies and governments look at some of the good things happening abroad and imitate them?!?
On a separate note, I am sure the video said that the bike cars are 'the second car behind the locomotive, and the [i]northenmost[/i] car'. How on earth can you tell that in an East-West oriented station?!?
Binners, it's like that because the trains (at peak times) are full. Make it cheaper, and you woudn't get any more tickets sold.
Molls. Thats because nobody is actually paying for their ticket on peak. Its all on corporate expense accounts. But this is the point. Virgin rail exists to milk this market. It doesn't give a monkeys about the rest.
The off-peaks aren't full. Far from it. And is it any bloody wonder why? I've just looked and if I want to travel off-peak to the Smoke tomorrow, the cheapest ticket is £80.50. Single 😯 So an off-peak return ticket is going to cost me, at the very least 160 quid! How doe this fit with an 'integrated public transport' narrative? Its laughable! I could take one of his competitors more reasonably priced trains I suppose. Oh wait... hang on a minute.....
Oh... and an on peak single is over double that, at 167 quid, each way. Do you think I should drive instead Richard...? Do you think the petrol and parking, and even the extravagance of the M6 toll, would come to more than 335 quid?
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What I don't understand is that a car containing one person has priority over a group of people trying to cross the road!?
Or why anyone in a powered metal box with seats and a heater gets priority over someone moving around using their own muscle power
Obviously I get that roads need a priority system or else there would be (even more) carnage, but currently its far to heavily in favour of motorised transport.
Presumed liabilty would be a good place to start
Apart from treating public transport as a cash cow, we're also crap at urban planning. The model for development seems to be the Barratt estate with a couple of parking spaces outside each house. No public transport, no local jobs, and sprawling towns and cities.
What I don't understand is that a car containing one person has priority over a group of people trying to cross the road!?
One of my pet hates.
All the pedestrian crossings around my way are set entirely in favour of cars. If the sensor detects a car approaching from 300 yards away, the pedestrian has to wait, even if they got there first. They also have to wait through an entire light cycle for the junction regardless of when in the cycle they push the button, almost as if the software running it takes a look at its sensors after everyone else has gone and goes, "Oh, you're still there, are you? Most people would have legged it across by now."
Mums around my way have an effective solution which involves speed walking up to the junction and thrusting the stroller out into oncoming traffic.
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/165253-road-safety-debate-grave-sense-injustice-sentencing-dangerous-driving ]Parliamentary debate on dangerous driving sentencing[/url]
The debate is finally beginning to be heard - albeit we're making very slow progress. Sometimes it does feel like the whole system in the UK is anti-cycling... but this is beginning to change at last...
All the pedestrian crossings around my way are set entirely in favour of cars. If the sensor detects a car approaching from 300 yards away, the pedestrian has to wait, even if they got there first. They also have to wait through an entire light cycle for the junction regardless of when in the cycle they push the button, almost as if the software running it takes a look at its sensors after everyone else has gone and goes, "Oh, you're still there, are you? Most people would have legged it across by now."
It's the same here, as well, generating my most evil of tempers when I'm waiting in the pouring rain (and it always rains here!) for dozens of warm, dry cozy drivers to dribble past at 12mph.
But then, when the red light eventually arrives, there will still be the cars who think it's still ok to drive on. I forced a car to stop yesterday and started bellowing at the driver like Mr Angryrantyman, because she drove through a red light towards the pedestrian crossing that my kids were crossing. The bloke in the car who followed her through almost had his head rammed up his exhaust. #tooangry! Problem is that it happens so often that people think it's acceptable.
The crossing at the main Bath Road near where I live has buttons to push.
As far as I can tell, they only make any difference to the sequencing at say, 1 o'clock on a Sunday morning. At any stage during the day, they do nothing at all other than either make people feel better or give toddlers something to push. 🙂
The same beepers/signals go off whether one has pushed the buttons or not.
At any stage during the day, they do nothing at all other than either make people feel better
I can completely believe that to be honest.
If there was no button to push then people wouldn't feel in control and they would be much more likely to just give up and cross against the signals.
I have a theory that most* people believe that if you can't SEE where you want to go, then you must drive there.
i.e - "I can see the shop at the end of the road, I'll walk..".."I can't see the school around the corner..I'll drive"
I certainly see a lot of this in the small village I live in!
DrP
*may not be most. Other statistics are available...
Yeah these bus and cycle lanes are all well and good, but how am I supposed to get a three flat pack wardrobes and a double bed back from Ikea on a bike?
Strange how the Viet Minh managed to move artillery and ammunition round the jungles of Viet Nam with nothing but bicycles.
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There's a pedestrian crossing on the A82 near Dumabrton that takes the biscuit. Busy 2 dual carriage way albeit it 40 limit at this point.
If you press the button the "wait" comes on. However, nothing happens for a few mins as cars stream by. If there's a little break in the traffic the lights reset, I think they're set to assume you'll leg it across which you can't safely do with kids or buggy. So you press it again...
Re pedestrian crossings - there's one on a junction near me which has cars driving through on the green man pretty much every time I cross the road - I'm surprised no-one's been hit. It's after a right turn box-junction - people wait in the box to to turn right, wait till the oncoming traffic stream has gone and then do the right turn. However by this point, the light they were sitting in front of has gone red so they're effectively running the red light. The pedestrian light setting thinks that as the traffic light is red, there'll be no more cars.
One woman I remonstrated with had a go back. I think she knew full well she was in the wrong but simply couldn't compute that not moving forward was the best thing to do and was panicking.
Another woman got a fright when I slapped the side of her car as she drove past me - the pedestrian light was green and I was already on the crossing as she moved forward but she was so determined to get out of the box junction that she wasn't checking for pedestrians.
On the one hand, the junction/lights need a redesign, on the other, their lack of awareness of how close they are to running someone over is scary. If you're not hyper-aware of this scenario and looking, you'll get hit.
I don't think the drivers are aggressive idiots, just don't know how to cope with imperfect infrastructure and are so wrapped up in their bubble that the outside world is not a 'real' thing with real people to hurt.
Personally I'm going to avoid using that crossing and I won't be driving that way either...
Yeah these bus and cycle lanes are all well and good, but how am I supposed to get a three flat pack wardrobes and a double bed back from Ikea on a bike?
home delivery service. simple.
Not driving is much easier than people think when they actually look for solutions rather than pretend to...
home delivery service. simple.
Or drive.
My point was that in situations like that driving is an entirely reasonable and sensible thing to do - but that doesn't mean it is [i]also[/i] the best option for the arduous half mile journey to school every morning 🙂
Some people seem to think it is an all-or-nothing thing - [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/driving-rant-an-act-of-unparalleled-egocentrism?replies=89#post-7194768 ]see perchypanther's earlier post for example[/url]
You old Brits really need to get rid of the bloody roundabout you know.
FFS why do you need to have a roundabout (4 lanes each side after roundabout) leading to main highways near a busy school? Bloody kids are standing in the middle of the street trying to cross them!!! Ya, I slow down the moment I saw few of them standing on the island (that separate the lanes) from a distance but one was already on the first lane. I saw her but what if the car behind me over took me immediately after the coming out from the roundabout? (4 lanes each side so 8 lanes in total)
😯