[Closed] Driving lessons and damage

Is he trying it on

very much so I'd say, time to find a new instructor.

IMO the instructor. A low speed accident involving no other vehicle the instructor was quite capable of using the dual controls and steering wheel to avoid kerbing:

A less than vigilant driving instructor who does not take the necessary steps to avert the accident – If the driving instructor fails in their responsibility to take reasonable steps to avoid an accident, they may be held liable for the accident. The driving school may also be held accountable for hiring an instructor who falls short of the high standard that is expected.

Ah. Sorry to drip feed. I misunderstood. Apparently it was on the test using the instructors car.

In that case your friend's daughter morally. Legally I have no idea. If junior had done that on his test I'd have coughed up for a wheel refurbish at a local specialist capable of turning horribly dinged wheels into good as new.

Any photos of the wheels before the accident I'd be surprised if this wasn't the first time and he's seeing an opportunity.

No idea legally what the craic is especially as it was on a test so the instructor wasn’t present but it’s got to be part & parcel of being a driving instructor surely. Especially in the absence of any photos/proof or anything signed in advance & the fact that £200 sounds VERY steep for a minor refurb I’d tell him to poke it 😀

Did she pass?

When junior failed after reversing into a kerb it was noted on the test report. If there had been any damage I think that would have been proof enough he did it, happily thare was no damage.

Who's insurance was she driving under?
Instructor/examiner/driving school? They must expect novices to make mistakes and will have cover. Probably not worth claiming that though.

I would tell the instructor to go forth I'm afraid. He really really could harm his business with an attitude like that. He wouldn't last long in our town that's for sure.

Surely the on side wheels on an instructors car are going to be pretty banged up already?!

I don't know what it's like in the UK but I pay the first 800e if I make a claim and it's a young driver at the wheel.

Same instructor? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5830524
and https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/93049/car-damage

Alloy wheels get kerbed its a fact of life..it has no bearing on resale value of the car..at least if you trade in so how is he going to demonstrate any material loss? Dealers expect alloys to be knackered and don't bat an eyelid in my experience when you trade cars in. I'd fight it unless you signed some sort of waiver accepting liability for damage like you do with a hire car. You assume that when you pay for a service the T&C's of that service are explained to you up front.

Reading this article, it seems the instructor is responsible for pretty much anything -
https://www.accidentclaimsadvice.org.uk/driving-lesson-accident-claim/
Probably more on that website if you have a browse.

Keep up Dez, it wasn't a lesson it was on the test and the instructor had kindly lent his car for the test.

I don’t know what it’s like in the UK but I pay the first 800e if I make a claim and it’s a young driver at the wheel.

it wasn’t a lesson it was on the test and the instructor had kindly lent his car for the test.

Yeah, they don't 'lend' anything. I think I paid for a double lesson with an hours practice before then an hour to cover the Test and RTB.

Tell him to bog off, he'll be wanting fuel next...

Daughter is doing her test next month. She has got to pay for a 3 hour lesson, 1st hour she drives to test centre, 2nd hour she does her test with an independent examiner who still has use of dual controls if needed, 3rd hour he drives home because if she is passed she is no longer insured. So as above there's no lending of a car its 3 hours paid.

Keep up Dez, it wasn’t a lesson it was on the test and the instructor had kindly lent his car for the test.

Haha. Yeah
“Kindly lent” his car at £35/hour for 3 hours.

Nice tax free top up if he rinses every pupil that touches a kerb for £200 🙄

Realistically a wheel refurb costs about £50 ..and as long as it's to original condition then wheres the issue.. he could bypass the insurance and just charge for the refurb but on a moral point its her responsibility..legally that's why he has insurance(SPECIALIST INSURANCE!!!!)...but generally they like to not claim on insurance but charge realistic repair costs.. so just open conversation and get an itemized quote for the repair and justification from a qualified technician(I know as I am one..)..

An instructor should have suitable insurance to cover prangs made by learners during lessons plus during ther test and if they don't, they should be making that very clear before you take your first lesson and you then walk away.

Ask them same question in your local Facebook group. He'll be offering you £200 to keep his driving school operating.

I've no idea really, but logically if he's going to do that I would expect an inspection before the car is handed over and any existing damage noted, signed and counter signed. Like when you rent a car. Assuming that didn't happen I'd say he's just having a go.

 See loads of bling driving school cars nowadays, flash alloys, no doubt useful for luring certain types of pupil but that’s the trade off!

I just always assumed this (along with some bling taxis) was just they were also the owners personal car and they were getting some tax benefit by also having it as the means they make a living. Little sympathy  for an instructor doing this and being worried about clients accidentally damaging the expensive alloys though.

OP - I would suggest to your friend's daughter that she asks to see the terms and conditions of the contract she entered into, specifically the part that details responsibility for accidental damage when driving the car under the responsibility of a third party.

With no photos to show car was immaculate at the start, he can do one IMO.

£50 to powercoat a wheel, job done. Can colour match off the other 3.

Alloy wheels get kerbed its a fact of life..it has no bearing on resale value of the car

Dealers might not care. First thing I look at. Kerbed wheels = owner can't drive and probably not been well looked after by someone who doesn't care about the vehicle. It is one of the major gripes I have about sharing our daily drive with my lovely wife. I've dinged an alloy once, now I've given up until we come to sell.

I hope your 'friend' has asked the instructor to reconsider this proposal in the interests of maintaining a customer. I would be disinclined to hand any money over. Dinged wheels are probably one of the minor risks of being a driving instructor. As for alloys someone cares about on a car being used as an instruction vehicle, what did the instructor expect?

That the instructor has asked for money suggests that a detailed review of the contract would be helpful if that wasn't done before employing them. What else would they hold her liable for?

First thing I look at. Kerbed wheels = owner can’t drive and probably not been well looked after by someone who doesn’t care about the vehicle.

I can't believe you'd look at an ex-driving-school car and the first thing that worries you about the vehicle are scraped alloys.

‘friend’ has asked the instructor to reconsider this proposal in the interests of maintaining a customer.

She won't be a customer any longer if she's passed.

I can’t believe you’d look at an ex-driving-school car and the first thing that worries you about the vehicle are scraped alloys.

How do you tell it was ex-driving school by looking at it?

How do you tell it was ex-driving school by looking at it?

Pedals in the passenger footwell are a dead giveaway 😛

Maybe the instructor has the car on PCP and he's worried about taking it back damaged.

She won’t be a customer any longer if she’s passed

Doubtful if she hit the kerb during the test.

I have an update. My friend has spoken to the instructor. Instructor has nothing in writing but is claiming he mentioned before test and at previous lessons that his insurance doesn't include wheels and tyres and the learner would take responsibility. But his daughter says this is not true and nothing was mentioned.

Instructor goes on to say if he needs to claim on his insurance the learner's details would be used as they caused the damage.

He says that this will affect her future insurance mean her insurance as she would need mention this as a previous claim.

This sounds like bullshit to me, can he name her on a claim and impact her driving record? Sounds iffy

Thanks chaps

This sounds like bullshit to me, can he name her on a claim and impact her driving record? Sounds iffy

Hahahaha...

No insurance company is doing to chase after a learner driver they insured for losses.
No they won't just take a name / someone said as any kind of blame...

so blackmail then?

Don't know if it would do any good but could contact the DVSA see if they could shed any light on the matter?

Clicky

I’d be shaming him all over social media. Sounds like a proper dick. Wear and tear on the car is part and parcel. Mrs F used to be a driving instructor and scrapes and scuffs happen. She wouldn’t have dreamed of attempting to charge a pupil for it. Then again she chose her car based on how practical it would be to teach in.

When you say kerbed and damaged, what are we talking? A scrape - superficially damaged but works fine? Or worse? Bent/snapped and needs replacing to drive the car?
RM.

He’s a chancer I reckon this may not be the first time time he’s done this. Tell him to do one.

He says that this will affect her future insurance mean her insurance as she would need mention this as a previous claim.

Bollocks.
She doesn't have an insurance policy, how can she have had a previous claim?

Instructor has nothing in writing

Wow. Sounds rather off to me.

My dad got the guy who'd taught him (and my mum, previously) to drive, as my driving instructor. Would use my folks' car - no problem. I think he'd kind of retired but kept on as unofficial instructor. What I didn't realise was that he was a raging alcoholic - would drop off on occasion and completely conked out more than once. I passed first time though. Spoke later to good friend here, who had same instructor - same deal, would pass out in the passenger's seat! Luckily James passed first time as well (a youth of driving round farm fields game him a lot of practice..)

I'd facebook the shit out of him. As I say he wouldn't last 5 mins in our town as competition is tough with many a driving instructor.

Not a penny!

His liability completely and if it wasn't £200 is a long long way over what the damage is worth (assuming a reasonably light kerbing / tyre intact).

And no contract / T&Cs?

As to insurance claims those would be his own, not his pupil's, no worries on that score.

The guy is a chancer, better off without - let him spin.

What a knob. Just walk away. Maybe do the social media thing of asking for recommendations for a new instructor due to problems with this one.

No car insurance covers damage to wheels and tyres unless the vehicle itself is also damaged.

Then he's said if he needs to claim, it'll be in her name as she caused it? Bollocks. He can't claim - he's trying it on. Walk away.

If anything further happens, ask for proof of the loss and proof that the contract included an agreement to pay for the tyre / wheel damage and proof she caused the damage. He won't be able to supply this (a before and after picture of all the wheels timed and dated before and after the test? Video of her hitting a kerb? Receipt for a refurb?).

Walk away.

Read this with interest.

Have to say, yeah, walk away 100%.

What a chancer. Even if the learner was liable (which they won't be) its £50 to refurb an alloy

its £50 to refurb an alloy

Unless they are diamond cut and/or polished (and of course dependant on the rim size too).

I would imagine if they were gold plated it might be more expensive still, but the point still stands

Tell him it was a pothole and he'll have to do a pothole claim online. The dick.

I would imagine if they were gold plated it might be more expensive still, but the point still stands

Well no - you said it's £50 to refurb an alloy. I pointed out that it isn't. Unless you live in Dubai, gold-plated alloys aren't a thing but diamond cut and polished ones are.

just done a F-type alloy, that was badly kerbed it was significnatly less than £200 to fix. The bloke is a chancer, and tbh it's a driving lesson car, stuff like that should be expected and insured against. tell him to do one, he's preying on someone vunerable.

but diamond cut and polished ones are.

On a car you let newbies learn to drive in ? You deserve everything you get in that case 🙂

I'm training to be a driving instructor and absolutely they shouldn't be paying unless there was some contract they signed up for (and if that was a clause shouldn't have used them that person for teaching).

If she was on her test the instructor had to have been happy with the standard of her driving to allow her to use the car.

The car is a tool, it isn't a pride and joy purchase.

The car driving instructor is a tool

fixed etc

On a car you let newbies learn to drive in ?

Possibly, but there are a few lower-end cars that have them these days (such as Aygos and Yarises (Yarii)?

Possibly, but there are a few lower-end cars that have them these days (such as Aygos and Yarises (Yarii)?

Sounds like a job for a Dacia to me

he mentioned before test and at previous lessons that his insurance doesn’t include wheels and tyres

Instructor goes on to say if he needs to claim on his insurance the learner’s details would be used as they caused the damage.

How is he going to claim for the wheel if his policy excludes their cover? Tell the **** to foxtrot oscar

Oh, and if the daughter has a real accident whilst learning to drive, she would, of course, need to declare that to her own insurer once she qualifies (assuming she takes out/is named on a policy within the 3-5 years most insurers look at).

I have an update. My friend has spoken to the instructor. Instructor has nothing in writing but is claiming he mentioned before test and at previous lessons that his insurance doesn’t include wheels and tyres and the learner would take responsibility. But his daughter says this is not true and nothing was mentioned.

Instructor goes on to say if he needs to claim on his insurance the learner’s details would be used as they caused the damage.

He says that this will affect her future insurance mean her insurance as she would need mention this as a previous claim.

This sounds like bullshit to me, can he name her on a claim and impact her driving record? Sounds iffy

Thanks chaps

So, her instructor is saying:
1) He's not covered by his insurance for damage to wheels and tyres. Fair enough, his risk.
2) He's going to claim for the damage on his insurance using her details.

How, exactly, is he going to claim for something that is uninsured? If he's doing it to "do the right thing", surely he would have done it already.

I'd be tempted to report him to the police for blackmail, particularly in light of the excessive "cost" he's quoting. I don't think it would be that unreasonable to ask for a fair price to repair it.

If he does claim for it, rest assured it'll knock his premiums up at least as much as hers.

Proud to say I learnt to drive and passed my test in a dacia sandero. When the instructor turned up on my first lesson I cracked up when I saw the car.

I can see the case for and against but the fact that he's demanding £200 turns it into a pisstake no matter what imo, it cost me £220 for a full refurb including centrecap respray and tyre fitting, for 4 wheels. OK so some can be more expensive but it's an instructor car, it's not going to have flash wheels unless the guy's an absolute maroon.