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Drac. That’s exactly it. It’s not up to them to prove I was going to do something, it’s up to me to prove I wasn’t.
Something I have learnt from being in the system.
I ran out of money and was using Apple Pay on my phone.
I called the Mrs and she left a voicemail saying get a cab back, I have £10 in my purse, I didn’t get that message until the next day!
I went back to my car because I always keep my debit card in it and I had cash from a customer in it.
I wasn’t thinking straight obviously as I was clearly drunk.
Do not have car keys attached to house keys is one thing. If I only had house keys I couldn’t have gotten into the car.
As a diabetic driver I got read the riot act by my nurse- if hypo in your car, get in the back seat, get the key away from you, do anything you can to make it look less drivey, after some arrests where someone had decided they should stop driving, pulled over, discovered they were hypo, treated it then sat in the car waiting to recover and got pulled. You're still "in charge" and there's really not much to be done about that but you can look less in charge and basically deter the police...
It always seemed like a completely shit law
I’ve done the park up have a couple of glasses of wine in the back with my dinner all over the place.
Have you considered a bib? Or drinking less wine until you've finished eating?
A side note. I was astounded by the lack of respect in a court situation.
I was suited and booted and honestly thought I was going to jail.
I was in bits.
The other people people in the waiting area were in tracksuits and high fiving each other as if it was nothing to be there.
It seemed like it ran in families and it was normal for them to be there.
I was astonished at the lack of respect the system.
an older copper would have just sent me on my way with a bit of a talking to.
Even that's out of order. WTF has it got to do with a copper, old or otherwise? Bloody stupid law.
It seemed like it ran in families and it was normal for them to be there.
I was astonished at the lack of respect the system.
Your right, for some it's just a jolly day out, some minor inconvenience. And for believers in progress justice, I've heard this time and time again from scrouts I've picked up. If you don't get a prison sentence you've got of with it. The only fear in court is from law abiding people like the OP who've made a "mistake".
The cctv of the carpark would confirm the car wasn't driven?
There was CCTV ?
The cctv of the carpark would confirm the car wasn’t driven?
But that makes no difference.
The cctv of the carpark would confirm the car wasn’t driven?
It would also confirm a pissed guy was sat in charge of his car, which I guess was the issue not the walking to the train with keys in his pocket.
T
I guess the moral of the story is don't piss off the carpark attendant ?
Just a quick hijack, but whats the law regarding a camper van or motorhome ? Say for example your parked up for the night on a site, get pissed and fall asleep. Would you still be committing an offence? Or parked up in Scotland on a wildcamp, still applies ?
The laws in Scotland around wild camping don't apply to camping in (or near) vehicles so the law isn't really any different. Bottom line is that if you're wild camping in a motorhome then you could potentially be drunk in charge, even though it's fairly unlikely (although there have been cases). Personally I don't drink if I've been wild camping, although it wouldn't really be an issue as my wife can drive the motorhome and she doesn't drink.
Yep, CCTV showed an argument and I had a very distinctive jacket ( Patagonia in blue)
It’s probably not worth carrying on the discussion, I was sounding out and trying to make other people aware.
Thanks for the warning Mark. I'm likely to be out in my camper tomorrow night so will take some precautions (like making sure it's in "sleeper" mode before going to the pub). Always good to have a wee reminder.
Glad you and Mrs are ok.
That sounds like a properly tough punishment. I know we're heading for zero tolerance of drink drive, but surely if there's CCTV showing you didn't / weren't driving, then your solicitor should have defended more robustly...?
Apple Pay, cash at home for the driver or going via a cash point on the way to the rank.
(Rumpole mode again)
All perfectly rational and reasonable suggestions, for a sober person with full control of thought and decision. But you were not, you were clearly well under the influence and incapable of rational thought or judgement. A person in that state could clearly make an unwise and irrational judgement. Just as you contend holding the keys does not signal intent to drive, having the Uber App on your phone doesn't show beyond doubt intent to use it.
Reading up on the offence it does sound like this clearly falls within the definition of the drunk in charge offence. The only defence is to prove no intention or likelyhood to drive - and lots of law firms show how they've defended against that. Based on the info here it does sound like that defence could/should have been presented so it'd be interesting to hear why the lawyer didn't think it was an option. Personally I'd have been shopping around for a law firm that would have defended it!
Glad you and Mrs are ok.
That sounds like a properly tough punishment. I know we’re heading for zero tolerance of drink drive, but surely if there’s CCTV showing you didn’t / weren’t driving, then your solicitor should have defended more robustly…?
This.
All perfectly rational and reasonable suggestions, for a sober person with full control of thought and decision. But you were not, you were clearly well under the influence and incapable of rational thought or judgement. A person in that state could clearly make an unwise and irrational judgement. Just as you contend holding the keys does not signal intent to drive, having the Uber App on your phone doesn’t show beyond doubt intent to use it.
I was away from my heading the opposite direction and walking towards the taxi rank. It's hard to drive my car from a mile away.
having the Uber App on your phone doesn’t show beyond doubt intent to use it.
No, but it refutes the augment that if you don't have any money you can't get a cab and you might return to the car. Remember you have to Show/prove that you have no intention of driving, it's just something that might might help it doesn't as of itself prove anything.
Anyway it's worth having because you get a great service at a good price (providing your in a coverage area), and if the gods are really shinning on you I might be your driver 👍👍👍
A side note. I was astounded by the lack of respect in a court situation.
I was suited and booted and honestly thought I was going to jail.
I was in bits.
The other people people in the waiting area were in tracksuits and high fiving each other as if it was nothing to be there.
It seemed like it ran in families and it was normal for them to be there.
I was astonished at the lack of respect the system.
I'm guessing that your respect for the system hasn't exactly been enhanced by your experiences, though? And I can't blame you for that.
Don’t have car keys on the house keys.
Simple. Now that I’m educated.
Martin. I work with the police on a day to day basis and most of them are pretty ok.
My point I suppose is trying to educate as most people will happily have a few beers and sleep it off in their cars thinking they are ok.
I am trying to give information and educate.
I’m not going to argue with anyone, Jesus.
I’m not going to argue with anyone, Jesus.
Welcome to STW where some even argue with themselves.
No we don't. Yes, we do, so shut up. No, you shut up.
Martin. I work with the police on a day to day basis and most of them are pretty ok.
My point I suppose is trying to educate as most people will happily have a few beers and sleep it off in their cars thinking they are ok.
I am trying to give information and educate.
I’m not going to argue with anyone, Jesus.
That's appreciated. Just offering some sympathy as I think you've had a bum deal.
So, if I’m sitting in my house (as I am) having just had a few beers at the pub (as I have) and a copper comes to the door on some pretext and I unlock it with the keys that have my van keys on the same keyring, I can be done for being DIC??
Tbh nothing would surprise me these days....
Andy, no, that would be ridiculous.
But if you sat in your van in your drive with the keys on your person, then yes, you would be done.
And the police wonder why the public don’t like them much and would rather point and laugh at them when they are getting beat up struggling to detain someone than come to their assistance.
Really? I have never had a problem with the police that I didn’t bring to the party, and even then I wouldn’t ignore a cop in trouble.
I'm not really arguing either, it seems very harsh to me and I really didn't know about the reversal of 'beyond reasonable doubt' in this case. I'm just playing Devils Advocate for the prosecution - almost to absurdity I'll admit - but not totally beyond an argument that could be presented.
OP, how long did you get banned for?
And is there any way to appeal, on the basis of the effect it'll have on eg: insurance etc.?
Surprised your lawyer didn't want to put up a strong defence, says I on the basis on no experience whatsoever - that said I'm 2/3 of the way through the Secret Barrister book and I shouldn't be surprised by anything based on what I've read in that.
14 months because I was well over. Lowest they could go, very small fine though.
Lumped me into a different category.
I could have got licence back in August but have been kinda reflecting on things and wasn’t in a major rush to get it back.
Insurance wise I’m better off for going on the drink driver awareness course and from what they say I’m likely to get good quotes.
I have edited. It was actually about 14 months but I put it to the back of my mind.
I could have been driving 6 months ago but I am having difficulty in dealing with everything.
I can work without driving at the moment, but I need to get back on it.
If the blood alcohol level was high enough the plod might have taken the view that it was likely you'd have driven the car while still over the limit (i.e. in the morning after your sleep in the car). If so that might be why the lawyer didn't think it was worth trying to defend the case.
As epicSteve says from the summary does seem you have a defence. If you walked away then I would take that as an indicator you werent going to drive.
I am really, really not fond of drunk drivers, since I have scars from when some drunken moron decided to drive at 70 in a 30 zone and smacked my dads car, but it does seem a crap outcome in your case.
For the motorhome peeps I am curious if there is a market/already a device which has a breathalyser attached to a key safe. Okay it wouldnt be perfect but would sticking keys in a device only opening when "sober" be enough of a defence against driving.
This gets debated a lot on the motorhome forums however on a motorhome I think the only ways to be 100% sure are:
- overnight somewhere off the road that's designed for overnighting - campsite, Aire etc.
- have a sober driver in the motorhome
If the police turn up to move you on when you're parked somewhere that is effectively part of the road system (e.g. roadside or in a layby or car-park) and you're over the limit then you could have a problem. Still very unlikely but there have been a few cases - mainly folks sleeping it off in a campervan at the roadside.
My neighbour got prosecuted last summer for drunk driving/drunk in possession, he drove to the pub and parked in the harbour square car park, had quite a few drinks and when he left to go home it was pissing down so he wandered to his car to get a jacket and umbrella but as he was climbing inside the car to retrieve them a police car pulled up with blue lights and asked him to take a breathalyser test, he refused and mentioned he was merely getting a jacket and umbrella to walk home with but the police were having none of it and arrested him, after a struggle as he admitted he called them quite a few choice words which prob didn’t go in his favour in court.
18 month ban, £1500 fine and ordered to resit his test.
I know the policeman in question, he’s a ****ing arrogant piss pot nazi pig sucking cockweasel of a human.
Honestly sounds like your legal representation was pretty dire. I'd speak to someone who deals with motoring / drinking offenses.
For any one disbelieving of this situation, one of my cousins had almost exactly the same thing happened. The only difference was that he was parked on a mates drive.
He lost the spare key he was given whilst on a night out and didn’t want to wake up the house at 3am - so went to sleep in his car on an open drive. Shortly after he dropped off, there was a knock on the window and a couple of police officers.
He was still half-asleep and showed them the keys to prove ownership, as some neighbour had reported a stranger getting into a car on the drive. Big mistake. He spent the rest of the night in cells...
As a diabetic driver I got read the riot act by my nurse- if hypo in your car, get in the back seat, get the key away from you, do anything you can to make it look less drivey, after some arrests where someone had decided they should stop driving, pulled over, discovered they were hypo, treated it then sat in the car waiting to recover and got pulled. You’re still “in charge” and there’s really not much to be done about that but you can look less in charge and basically deter the police…
One of the reasons I don't drive (the main one being I had a hypo on a driving lesson. Didn't black out or anything but was pretty far from being in control, scared the shit out of me once I'd recovered.)
Firstly, I think you were treated harshly. There was no need for it to go that far and a decent officer with good judgement and experience may have dealt with things differently.
However, the offence had already been committed when the OP was walking away from the car I would think?
I was away from my heading the opposite direction and walking towards the taxi rank. It’s hard to drive my car from a mile away
This is irrelevant to the accusation, as he had already been “drunk in charge” when he was asleep in the car. And two witnesses and CCTV could prove it.
Enough evidence to say that he would have driven if the attendants hadn’t turned up, and nothing at all to prove that he wouldn’t.
As I say, it’s a crap decision to prosecute, but the fact that he was a mile away when he was nicked doesn’t provide a defence I don’t think, just shows they were pretty slow in picking him up for an offence that was already committed.
This is irrelevant to the accusation, as he had already been “drunk in charge” when he was asleep in the car. And two witnesses and CCTV could prove it.
Well done Neal for ignoring that the question was not about the OP and that I'd pretty much said the same as you when talking about the OP.
Well done for taking offence and picking fault at me making a perfectly valid point.
You really can be tiresome when you pick at people for no reason. 🙄
Plenty of other people have said “how could he be drunk in charge when he was a mile away”
That quote was just the nearest to cut and paste.
Did you actually disagree with anything I said, or just wanted to have a dig at me ?
Bloody hell ironary overload.
Feel for the OP. I had the exact opposite from the police many years ago, early 90s.
When I was in the army we were based about 30 mins drive from nearest large town, couldn’t afford b&bs or taxis so would kip in the cars.
One night in Ipswich, two of us in the car, passenger seat and rear seat, very drunk and asleep. Plod knock on the window and ask us to leave the car keys hidden outside of the car and advise us to have a big breakfast and a walk before driving home in the morning.
Did you actually disagree with anything I said, or just wanted to have a dig at me ?
?
I’d pretty much said the same as you when talking about the OP.
Goodnight.
Just wanted to have a dig then.
Tiresome.