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Blimey mate, just clocked this one. Glad you're okay. In your shoes I'd do the same regarding taking the car, if he thinks he got away with it he may try the same tomorrow if he finds himself in the same position.
That's mad.
Sorry about your experience op.
Hoping for a bad result for the driver!
yeah. Nasty stuff. Hope they do something serious about this and get the message out there. Glad you're ok.
that is terrifying, i 'excuse' a lot of bad behaviour from drivers as a lack of awareness, but this kind of thing is something much much more sinister.
im glad your not seriously hurt, i bet you're shook up though. maybe modify your route until the police take his licence away?
Riding in to work yesterday on my motorbike. Stop at some lights. Coming other way a car changes lane making a van brake. Old bloke in car puts hand up to say sorry. When car stops vans passenger jumps out and runs to car window and starts throwing punches at the old fella. Took me a while to untangle the side stand and get between them. No one else did a thing to help this poor old boy. Shocking what people will do and others see as normal. Van driver said he deserved as he almost caused an accident. FFS whats wrong with people?
Police said they would only look into it if the victim came forward. When I asked if thats how tbey dealt with murder cases too the conversation soured. I gave them the vans reg but they dont wont to know. ****ing ****s.
I used to live in Adamsdown so know that junction well. Nothing more to add, but glad you're OK!
Police said they would only look into it if the victim came forward. When I asked if thats how tbey dealt with murder cases too the conversation soured.
Nice response. Wish I'd used that when they refused to investigate a hit and run I witnessed in London where the victim was 'too scared' to go to the police.
If you have to pull out from the gutter at any point - taking the lane, changing lanes, or being in a different lane - make eye contact. then you need to modify your road positioning - don't ride in the gutter. Helps loads.
By 'gutter' I meant the usual 2-3ft from the kerb. I don't ride any further out than that normally, because I don't want to obstruct drivers needlessly. I only pull out when it's needed, which is the usual STW position on the matter I believe.
This belongs here as well
[url= http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/news/2014/01/17/our-submission-to-the-transport-select-committee-on-cycling-safety ]http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/news/2014/01/17/our-submission-to-the-transport-select-committee-on-cycling-safety[/url]
Wow what a prick, hope they do throw the book at him. Most of all, glad you are unharmed OP.
I once had a kid grab my handlebars when I was cycling past a car in Melbourne, scary and unpleasant experience. I don't understand why cyclist abuse is considered fair game.
Apologies for taking you too literally, the gutter riding thing is a bugbear of mine and I reacted a little harshly on reflection!
It's worth being clear though, as there's plenty of cyclists I see who don't make it easy for themselves by riding literally in the gutter, which not only means they're riding over all the detritus that ends up there and the drain covers etc. but also invites drivers to "squeeze through" for overtakes where there really isn't enough space, and furthermore the rider who's already in the gutter hasn't got anywhere further to go to get out of the way (other than bunny hopping on the pavement).
Even more annoying for the rest of us, the gutter riders create an expectation in at least some drivers that that is where the cylists [b]should[/b] be and they then get arsey (or worse) at those of us who ride in a more sensible road position. Like that Clarkson moron.
In summary: riding in the gutter annoys me a lot!
Just had an answer phone message off the police.
He's admitted the offence and has been cautioned. No further action will be taken as he came in on his own accord. Sounds like he's learnt a lesson at least!!
Well that's a bit crap - a caution for that?
If it was his first offence, caution will always be the outcome.
bet he follows clarkson on twitter
What a stupid remark.
Ok, I bet he doesn't follow Clarkson on twitter.
it was his first offence, caution will always be the outcome?
Make sure your first offence is murder or robbery then. I am surprised that a roadrage with use of a vehicle and dangerous driving resulted in a caution. I personally would want to take this further and would write to the superintendent asking for a written explanation of the decision to caution.
If you had been representing this motorist, would you have pushed for, suggested or enquired of the police as to his eligibility for a caution, or objected if they had suggested it?
Thegreatape I would have argued for it and if charged asked the Cps to review it and if unsuccessful taken any legitimate Argument consistent with my clients instructions.
That's not purely theoretical been there done that but told the client a on the facts he was guilty b I was a cyclist and he may want a more objective advocate. I won mode of trial for him . He sacked me got another lawyer and lost spectacularly.
I was looking at the back of my bike to see what else I could do to cater for idiots like this one, but the bike already looks like an illuminated flashing Christmas tree.
This is a common mistake people make about people driving badly must not have seen the cyclist. Its is nothing to do with visibility. Once you have one good rear light that chances of not being seen from behind are pretty small, when have you had problems seeing a traffic light? If you have two, both at different levels, the chances are pretty much zero. Its all down to driver attitude.
Thanks.
Milky you should press charges mate. I don't see how trying to make a cyclist crash in moving traffic is anything short of attempted murder. Like that bus driver in Bristol how he got off so lightly I don't know.
Maybe Cardiff is getting worse like they say. I have for the most part found drivers here to be pretty reasonable but only this week had a very close call with a guy who ran a yellow light at speed to cut in front of me turning left. I might not be here ranting if I'd not slammed the brakes on. Wish I got his number.
From what the officer I spoke to this is the only real outcome from the evidence they have available. I will run it past a lawyer friend to make sure it's correct but I'm reasonably satisfied he has learnt not to do something like this in the future.
As aracer said further back, education is the way forward. If he changes his friends' driving attitudes too that will make the roads safer for everyone.
Not sure I'd be happy knowing the driver just got a caution as it was a deliberate & dangerous act......but it's your call OP, glad you managed not to crash!!
Well at least it can be used in court as evidence of bad character next time, even though it's not a criminal conviction.
OP: glad you're ok.
But acts of aggression like that are NOT unintentional, so I don't think
is likely...I'm reasonably satisfied he has learnt not to do something like this in the future.
The instructor at the speed awareness course I went on 3 years ago advised when getting tailgated or facing other types of aggressive driving, just pull over/get away - that type of aggression was there when they got out of bed that morning and we're just the target for that aggression.
I doubt the guy who attacked you will be sitting at home going "gosh, I've learnt today that I shouldn't grab a cyclist and try and pull him off his bike"
What was he given a caution for? I wasn't aware that was the normal action with assault, first offence or not (though I'm not a lawyer and have no experience of this sort of thing, so could be talking a load of rubbish). Or was he not actually charged with assault for something which clearly was?
The police can't take a case any further unless they are confident they can secure a conviction. If it's "my word against yours" then it's only 50:50.
How can an admission not be evidence?
Surely you have evidence, he's given his admission - job jobbed, CPS's job half done
Yep the caution can only follow an unequivocal admission of guilt so it's your word and his against nothing.
you need a good detective on the case mate, get them to cop to it, might be able to squeeze a confession out of the perp
OP - I'm glad that you're ok. But what he did was intentional; I'd press charges!
IMO, the motorist probably didn't go to the cops because of a guilty conscience; he did so out of self preservation. Get his name and look into his background a little.
I'm American, and many professionals here belong to some sort of professional organization or are regulated by some start body. I assume that its the same in the UK. Lawyers belong to the Bar Association, Engineers would be licensed by a state professional board. Other professions have similar bodies. And none of them look highly on poor conduct (such as assault) by their members!
If the motorist belongs to one of these organizations, file a complaint with them. A written statement from you and a copy of documentation from the Police that he admitted to it would be all that you should need. He'll have to respond, and there's a good chance that they'll suspend his membership or put him on some sort of probation for a period of time. That will remain with him a little longer than some stern words from a cop!
Remember, his [u]intentional[/u] actions could have killed you!
@molgripsApologies for taking you too literally, the gutter riding thing is a bugbear of mine and I reacted a little harshly on reflection!
No, you were quite right - lazy typing on my part.
Eye-contact is a miraculous thing though, very important when cycling in traffic!
Or was he not actually charged with assault for something which clearly was?
He wasn't charged, I don't think it was assault either.
Maybe worth getting one of these cycling lawyers to take the case forward. The requirements for the CPS to pursue a case does not mean a crime has not been committed. They obviously don't place a high priority on driving incidents, and seem to have little understanding of the dangerous nature and level of fear created by violent aggressive motorists.
I think you could bring a private prosecution against the driver, and his admission would be evidence in such a case.
glad OP OK
aracer - MemberWhat was he given a caution for? I wasn't aware that was the normal action with assault, first offence or not......
I believe it is and here is the policy - think this must be an update as I came across it as an outcome in case of a lad I knew who was punched in a bar by a complete stranger
[url] http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/oocd/adult-simple-caution-guidance-oocd.pdf [/url]
PS - I'm not familiar with the location so am assuming it is in England not Wales NI or Scotland
antiglee from your link..
Other Serious Offences
32.
Serious offences which would ordinarily attract a high end community order or immediate custody are generally not suitable for disposal through a simple caution.
Victim
52.
Before a simple caution can be offered it is important to establish where appropriate and possible;
o
The views of any victim about the offence and the proposed method of disposal;
o
The nature of any harm or loss and its significance to the victim.
These factors should be taken into account in considering whether a simple caution is appropriate."
In my view any roadrage incident is likely to be viewed as serious and all sentencing options including custody would be considered. Also clearly molgrips should have been consulted. The use of a caution also appears to have avoided any risk of penalty points on the licence for poor driving or the theoretical risk of loss of his car as being used in commission of a crime.
Can't remember if I've already said it on this thread but...
I was clipped by an overtaking car, the driver then got out, knocked me to the ground and punched in the head half a dozen times while I was tangled up in the bike.
It was all on video, with 2 or 3 witnesses.
West mids police wouldn't even give him a caution! They told me that it was a 'local resolution' or nothing because they couldn't afford to go to court with these kind of cases. So he wrote a letter saying "I regret that we bumped into each other". That'll learn 'im. 🙄
So a caution is a bit sh*t, given that it surely counts as dangerous driving AND assault, but it's more than I'd expect the police to do.
If I was living back in the UK now, I would defiantly take out legal insurance. And I advise everyone to do so.
Just because the police or CPS won't push for prosecution doesn't mean the driver cannot be prosecuted. It is becoming increasingly clear that the police and CPS are not serving the needs of the victims in these cases time and time again. If as cyclists we have access to legal representation then we can push for the right outcome.
I am convinced that we now need legal representatives to manage these cases right from the beginning. If I was now in such an incident the second thing I would do after reporting the incident to the police would be to get a solicitor to manage the case for ME, not for the easiest path for the police and CPS. And even if the police and CPS were not willing to prosecute, I would want to take it off their hands and prosecute privately.
This could so easily have resulted in the death of the cyclist involved, and the driver has got away with the absolute minimum, beyond the absolute minimum possible. It yet again sends out the message that cyclists are unimportant sub humans to so many drivers.
Try writing to your "Police & Crime Commisioner"?? Local MP?? Councillor for the area. Get a bit of back up from people in "Public Office", the ones who still need your vote?
Yep the caution can only follow an unequivocal admission of guilt so it's your word and his against nothing.
He was probably offered the caution on the condition he made the admission. Highly unlikely anybody would admit anything if they didn't know where it would end up.
A quick thought.
He came in of his own accord, so does that mean it's actually a STW forum member? How else would he have found out that action was going to be taken.
Either that or genuine remorse.
MSP would you get that over under a std policy?
I don't know how it works in the UK now. Here in Germany it is quite usual to have legal insurance completely separate from any other insurances, that way they cover you even when in dispute with the other insurance companies.
I think for cyclists it is possible to get legal cover for cycling related issues through ctc or similar organisations.
However the way the law is moving, I would now prefer to have greater cover than a specific cycling policy. It costs me 120 Euro a year in Germany. I have never needed it, but quite a few friends and colleagues have had disputes with landlords, and one friend who was in quite a serious traffic accident where it has been invaluable.