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I walked the 1.5 miles each way to Tesco this morning to get groceries for my mum, dad and elderly neighbour. Every vehicle except one were sliding all over the place and bumping into kerbs, each other or just sitting there spinning. Much mirth!
The only one moving was an extremely modified, very early Range Rover V8 with enormous ground clearance (talking monster truck here), big soft balloon tyres and all sorts of bolted on winches, spot lights, sand tracks, shovels etc. The two guys in it were pissing themselves as they passed everything.
It is sad that no part of the driving test/training involves driving in adverse conditions (other than a bit of rain) and that skid pan training is not mandatory.
A lot of people simply have no concept of what it is like to slide on ice/snow, how to deal with it and just how far a car can slide on sheet ice even when only doing a few miles per hour.
While we can sit here proclaiming everyone who can't drive on snow/ice to be idiots Gary_M makes the point clear, most people simply have never had to do it, and until you have had to do it and it's gone wrong you really don't realise you are not equipped with the skills so you're not even able to make a sensible judgement call about if you can or not
so to answer:
Do they not realise they don't know what they're doing and have no experience of driving in snow then?
the answer is probably, no, they don't realise, because until they have, or have had equivalent training they don't know how hard it is.
why don't we direct some of our anger and frustration at a system that allows people to drive without preparing them properly?
So how did you gain your experience of driving on the roads in the snow with other cars about? I take it there was a point in life when you had also never driven on snow/ice.
Of course - google didn't even exist then, so I actually had to think about it a bit as well.
Gary_M makes the point clear, most people simply have never had to do it,
I'm a relatively new driver and this year is the first time I've driven on snow.
You're right of course, nothing in the test prepares you for it.
But rather than just "give it a go" I read some advice ([url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/tips-for-driving-on-snow-and-ice ]on here[/url], [url= http://www.rospa.com/RoadSafety/advice/driving/winter_hazards.htm ]RoSPA[/url], [url= http://www.iam.org.uk/latest_news/winterweatherdrivingtipsfromtheiam.html ]IAM[/url] etc) and played about with the car in an empty car park to get a feel for it.
Obviously not as good as proper training and experience, but at least it gave me a vague idea what to expect and how to handle it.
nice to see someone applying some common sense for once Graham, i did exactly the same thing when i passed years ago, also went on skid pan and advanced driving courses as well as a track day or two, just to try and get experience and a better feel for general handling at the extremes.
4x4 trialling also works wonders for teaching you how to deal with being stuck and dealing with slippy stuff.
personally i think skid pan training should be mandatory for every new driver, if for no other reason than to show them first hand just how far you can slide and how easily you can lose control. It really brings things in to perspective when you know what can happen.
But rather than just "give it a go" I read some advice (on here, RoSPA, IAM etc) and played about with the car in an empty car park to get a feel for it.
You see Gary, it is possible. Of course doing what Graham did would imply actually caring about your driving standards, something very few people seem to do.
Heard good things about Autosocks, basically fabric alternative to snow chains. Considering getting some to keep in the boot as my RWD diesel with 245 width low profile tyres is useless uphill in the snow
[url= http://www.autosock.com/ ]Autosock[/url]
It's all well and good reading up on it and getting the feel of what happens on a skid pan but if you're a newish driver and you have to drive on snow then nothing really prepares you for that.
All I'm saying is that we need to be a bit more understanding of others driving skills and help where we can. No point going on a forum and whinging about it.
45 mins trying to get the (crappy little) work van up my drive, gave up in the end, went to work, and swaped it for my own car. No problems in my 206, 1st gear, idle the engine, and let the diesel do all the work.
narrower wheels, heavy lump over the drive too.
housemates hilux was struggling, but she was gunning it.
but she was gunning it.
that'll be the problem....
It's all well and good reading up on it and getting the feel of what happens on a skid pan but if you're a newish driver and you have to drive on snow then nothing really prepares you for that.
Just the reading is sufficient to learn that you should take corners slowly and that it's counterproductive to spin your wheels up - the two biggest things people seem to do wrong. The thing is it's all just basic driving skills anyway, it just involves switching your brain on, something many people seem incapable of when in a car.
I don't really have a big problem with people driving a lot slower than is possible (rather that than too fast), which is the other thing I came across yesterday. Perfectly reasonable behaviour for those new to the snow. It's definitely the spinning wheels I find most irritating - I mean just how hard is it to find out that doesn't work, and just turns the road into a skating rink for everybody else?
Why is it those in rear wheel drive cars don't try reversing when conditions are bad? Pulling works better than pushing in these conditions and is far less likely to send you spearing into the nearest hedge or ditch?
The other matter is add some weight to the axle - I used to buy a few bags of sand when conditions were bad. Add weight, more grip, easy! The last one is look for the fresh snow, not the compacted snow, far more grip.
Interesting watching lots of people who think that the way to travel is to engage 1st, bury the throttle and wait to move - it doesn't work on a dry road FFS - I'd just be left with a cloud of tyre smoke surrounding me. Engage gear, feel for bite of clutch and leave there until moving, ease into the next gear, little or no rev's and repeat. It isn't hard people!
Personal pet hate with snow - 4wd drivers who think that because they can accelerate faster with their 4wd grip, that they can drive faster...you've got the same stopping performance as everyone else - not a lot. Only proper snow tyres or chains will improve braking distances.
Why is it those in rear wheel drive cars don't try reversing when conditions are bad?
Probably because it doesn't actually help that much - is a misperception largely due to FWD cars working better in the snow (which isn't even all down to the end which is driven - in general FWD cars have narrower tyres for instance). You can even get better traction in a FWD up a hill by reversing!
It's all well and good reading up ...[but] nothing really prepares you for that.
Agreed. And I'm definitely not claiming to be an expert, or even average, but a little effort has helped me avoid the basic mistakes that I've seen other folk making.
Exactly, Graham, and as I forgot to say it before, well done. You're probably at least as good as me (I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert either - I just have a clue).
Thanks. 😀
[size=1](I've now completely jinxed myself - expect long thread about sliding backwards into a canal)[/size]
Reading about it is great, but until you skid in real life and are out of control all that reading goes out of your head.
You'd have to do a hell of a lot of skid-pan training for it to become instinctive.
Obviously driving slower helps, but my recent experience of skidding off the road whilst going uphill surprised me.
Thankfully it was a quiet country road with no-one about and a gentle grass verge to slide onto helped. Certainly changed my driving style since then.