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it's up to the police to deal with reports as they fit, not for you to try and pressure people into not reporting at all.
Here in rural areas if every 2 or 3 pint driver was grassed up* the local station would be deluged with calls every day. In any case the cops probably know who they are anyway, round here pretty much everyone knows everyone else. They don't do anything because they have concluded it's not a major problem and they have other more important stuff to deal with.
*there's nothing to grass up in any case. As the link above explains, 2 or 3 pints probably doesn't put you over the limit. It would be different if we had a Scotland approach, but we don't.
Drink drivers kill hundreds and main thousands of people every year. 2 or 3 pints does put you over the limit, your home breathalyzer was certainly faulty. If every 2 or 3 pint driver was shoped then we would have much safer roads and the police consider drink driving a high priority simply because of the number of people killed. Your idea that many in rural areas are routinely drink driving is both false and the fact you think its OK puts you 100% in the wrong
Well it’s always dangerous to assume the other drivers you are recommending should drink 3/4/5 pints
FFS here we go. Nowhere on this thread have I encouraged anyone to drink and drive. I'm talking about whether its worth reporting someone who has drank 3 pints to the cops. IMO it's not for the reasons I have explained. If people want to drink and drive then that's their choice and they run the risk of being tested and arrested, worst case scenario they injure or kill someone and they're taken to the cleaners for compensation and have their licence taken off them and possibly end up inside. Neither are worth the risk obviously, so better to be on the right side of the law.
I don't know why you're defending this. (Well, I do, but...)
Cougar you can piss off with your barely disguised accusation. I don't drink and drive, I don't need to the pub is 5 mins from my house.
BTW how many on here would report a mate they've been on a ride with for riding home from the pub after a few pints? I've seen many MTB and road riding mates riding home after far too much (ie 5 or more). I'll also admit I've done it myself (although mostly stick to offroad if I can). Should we also be grassing up our mates or expect to be grassed up ourselves?
Drunk on a bicycle is a much higher level than over the proscribed limit. also drunk cyclist don't kill folk
My guess is Alpin and Cougar. Deflection... A well known technique in addicts.
Hey now!
I may have been an amber (nectar) gambler when I was much younger, but I don't think I've actually ever driven drunk. But then, I suppose that's what all drunks would say. 😁
I don't actually drink at all now, I quit a little while back.
Your idea that many in rural areas are routinely drink driving is both false and the fact you think its OK puts you 100% in the wrong
I agree with the second point here but not the first.
Fear of getting caught is usually one of the biggest deterrents, when the only copper in the village is on the barstool next to you that's unlikely. And hey, it's a quiet drive home down a country road, no other traffic... I dated a lass in a farty village in South Wales for a while and that was absolutely the mentality, it was normalised. You couldn't get a taxi home in any case because Mike Taxi (the only taxi driver in the village) was on the barstool on the other side. My partner of the time's dad drove a Jag because "it's safer when you crash." Walking home was at least as hazardous.
BTW how many on here would report a mate they've been on a ride with for riding home from the pub after a few pints? I've seen many MTB and road riding mates riding home after far too much (ie 5 or more). I'll also admit I've done it myself (although mostly stick to offroad if I can). Should we also be grassing up our mates or expect to be grassed up ourselves?
I'd try very hard to persuade them not to. A pissed cyclist is far less of a risk to others than someone in 2 tons of steel capable of 3 figure speeds. But cycling on a public road after 5 pints? They would be placing themselves, if not others at huge risk and if they were a mate I'd be trying very, very hard to stop them. It would be a tough call, but if that failed and the only way to prevent them from dicing with traffic whilst lagered up and potentially getting flattened was reporting them I'd have to consider it.
It is a moral dilemma but faced with losing a friend because he's got the hump with me or because he's been hit by a car I hope I'd have the moral courage to choose the former. Especially as the legal consequences are far less than drink driving (no breathalyser etc.) and the most likely outcome is a police warning.
I am thankful none of my mates have ever put me in that position.
Cougar you can piss off with your barely disguised accusation. I don't drink and drive, I don't need to the pub is 5 mins from my house.
That wasn't the accusation I was making, looks like the disguise worked.
Local cops here just tell drunk cyclists to walk home, I have known them take bikes off folk and lock them up and escort the person home, I have known them let the tyres down so they have to walk
to be prosecuted for drunk cycling you have to be shown to be incapable of riding
BTW how many on here would report a mate they've been on a ride with for riding home from the pub after a few pints? I've seen many MTB and road riding mates riding home after far too much (ie 5 or more). I'll also admit I've done it myself (although mostly stick to offroad if I can). Should we also be grassing up our mates or expect to be grassed up ourselves?
I think it's worth reminding yourself the majority view here would be the minority view from those that don't spend too much of their time on STW ..
but if the alternative is sitting around at home watching telly on my own then I think I prefer the risk associated with having a few pints every day. I enjoy drinking beer, I enjoy going down the pub and having a chat with my mates, and yes I enjoy the inebriating effects which relieve my sober state of crushing social anxiety.
This touched a nerve in me!
My father was rushed into hospital with breathing and heart problems about a week ago. When asked how much him and his wife drink they admitted that they share a bottle of wine every night. The reality is that it's more than that most nights because they are bored at home, so they'll have some wine, gin, a beer or two, but we don't know exactly how much. My father's heart condition stabilised, but he got progressively more confused and dopey. Then his wife started behaving the same, almost a dementia level of confused and then she had a mild stroke at the end of last week. Very simply, they are both suffering from alcohol withdrawal syndrome, and this has hampered my father's recovery from his actual problems and possibly contributed to his wife's stroke. Neither would ever admit to being alcoholic, but they have drunk every night since Covid and probably longer, not heavily every night and that's the point of this - it's only a few drinks every night. And everyone has an excuse if they want one - it's a lovely summer, it's long nights through the winter, it's to be sociable, it's to dull the demons in my head.
Prior to this last week I would have poured scorn on the idea of needing AWS medication for a few drinks a night, but this has changed significantly. They have both made a real mess of their health in a short space of time and are also causing all sorts of problems for other people who now need to work out how to care for them.
Totally agree with the op. You used to even get rewards for info leading to conviction.
Seems you still can!
you can receive a cash reward of up to £1,000 for reporting drink drivers through the charity Crimestoppers in the UK. You receive the reward if your information leads to an arrest and charge, with the exact amount determined on a case-by-case basis. To claim, you must ask for a reward code when you contact them or enter 'REWARD REQUEST' on their online form and create a Keep in Contact account to follow up for your code.
how many on here would report a mate they've been on a ride with for riding home from the pub after a few pints?
In the distant past we used to have a regular Wednesday night ride that finished in a pub that also had a Wednesday night lock in...
It became a common thing for the local plod to be waiting on the village green for us to leave the pub.
They would pull onto the road behind us and follow us the 5 miles to the border of the county we all lived in then give a flash of the blue light and turn around and head back to the village.
I used to love those escorted rides home, made everyone feel safe.
Well it’s always dangerous to assume the other drivers you are recommending should drink 3/4/5 pints
FFS here we go. Nowhere on this thread have I encouraged anyone to drink and drive. I'm talking about whether its worth reporting someone who has drank 3 pints to the cops. IMO it's not for the reasons I have explained. If people want to drink and drive then that's their choice and they run the risk of being tested and arrested
Well you can say that - but I'd sat these quotes:
It takes quite a lot to fail a breath test, I experimented with one once and didn't go over the old 80mg limit until I'd drank 6 pints.
Some intersting info here. Seems to match my own experiments with a breath testing machine. Next time OP maybe wait til your offending person has had at least 5 pints.
That and it's pointless anyway cos they probably wouldn't fail a breath test. Also in the grand scheme of things a random bloke drinking 3 pints isn't going to cause an enormous (or any) amount of danger which requires an active response by the cops,
See the link above. It's all subjective of course, but drinking 2 or 3 pints almost certainly doesn't put you above the 35ug limit. Also your mate was in Scotland where they have a zero tolerance approach (5ug IIRC).
[By the way we don't have a "zero tolerance" approach in Scotland - its tougher in most of Scandinavia for example. The Scottish breath limit is 22 ug/100mL of breath. So not actually that much less that the English rule. Some people believe you can get away with 1 pint here (but of course that takes us back to the 1 pint of what, consumed over what period of time, by who etc). Its certainly possible that if my slim daughter had a pint and nothing else she would be over the limit, whilst her chunky father would be a greedy ****er and order food too and be under the limit!]
Yeah we were all very surprised too. Obviously I've never been tempted to put this 'research' into action in the real world, but I know mates who have passed police breath tests despite having drank 4-5 pints. They were smokers though, which has quite a lot of impact I believe.
NB the figures in that link I posted were for 3.6% beer not 5%, which is a huge difference. I wouldn't drive after 3 pints of 5% beer, 3.6% maybe (with food), although it's irrelevant in my case as I almost always ride my bike or walk to the pub.
But if I was the sort of person who couldn't avoid going to the pub and having 3/4/5 pints and driving it would all tell me its OK because some guy on the internet says you won't actually be over the limit. You might not intend to encourage others to do it but the subliminal message to people who probably already do is not to worry about it. If your data was based on factual, scientific evidence it wouldn't be so bad but its anecdote. When scientist do the studies accurately they see significant variability in the data between individuals even when they try to control for things like which drink, food/no-food etc. Anyone listening to you is being lured towards temptation which *might* be valid for you and your mates.
Drink driving ruins lives - not only when there is a crash - just getting caught and convicted it will show on your driving license for the next 10 years. You may lose your job. You may be unable to pay your mortgage. Your relationships may break down. Thats a lot to gamble on a guy on the internet who can't remember what the limit is says you can get away with 5 pints.
Are you seriously suggesting anyone is going to drink drive because Daz on the Singletrack forum says they’ll probably not fail a breathalyzer? Seriously?
I live not far away from Daz and know exactly where he’s coming from. As I said in an earlier post. If I sat in my local and phoned the police every time someone who was probably over the limit jumped in their Land Rover and drove off, I certainly wouldn’t be getting many articles in the economist finished. I’d be constantly on the phone.
If you live in fairly rural areas, the ‘five’n’drive’ culture is absolutely endemic with a serious chunk of the population. It’s just the way things are, and always have been.
And with understandable reason. I’d say your chances of being stopped and breathalysed round here are as close to zero as it gets, with or without phone tip offs from concerned citizens/grasses*
Your idea that many in rural areas are routinely drink driving is both false
It really isn’t!
* delete as applicable.
Your idea that many in rural areas are routinely drink driving is both false
Ah, well, it happens.
I every few months I'm in Northumberland for a few days and this always involves at least two rural pub visits to get food. Without fail there are folks who turn up in their vehicles to meet mates and have a few pints. I have no reason to believe any of them leave their vehicles there overnight and get a lift back to the pub in the morning. Indeed it is widely known in the area that due to the location of some pubs rural residents can drive home without needing to go on an A/B road.
Just yesterday after finishing a Peak Enduro I popped to the pub with our group of riders for a pint and a tray of chips. Nice little out of the way pub... being the time it was the car park was filling up with the regulars. We were there an hour and a couple of those who parked up a similar time to us were getting pint/glass three as we left.
Last time I was out in Lincolnshire for a meal in a well regarded village pub it was much the same picture. Couple rocking up in their cars and everyone drinking a fair amount. The guy who lives in the village knows the score but so far the worst that has happened is car need pulling out of hedges so the hedge or gate gets paid for and no one says anything.
Yes anecdotal evidence from a sample of one witness. But if it's common enough for me to see enough evidence it happens multiple times a year and in multiple locations then I think it's fair to say there are enough folks to count as 'many' and it happens regularly enough to be routine.
Schrödingers rural drink drivers. Apparently the reduction in the scots drink drive limit was going to ( or has) put all rural pubs out of buisness
Personally I believe cops should be allowed to do random drink drive testing not have to wait for suspicion and should be doing roadblocks near rural and urban pubs and test everyone as they now do in Aus
yes there is a hard core of drink drivers - and they regularly kill people
Personally I believe cops should be allowed to do random drink drive testing not have to wait for suspicion and should be doing roadblocks near rural and urban pubs and test everyone as they now do in Aus
You want roadblocks on rural roads to breathalyse people? Who’s paying for that then?
Right lads… I know we’ve had a lot of armed robberies lately and we’ve got massive problems with burglaries, antisocial behaviour and county lines drug dealing, but you’re all being sent out to sleepyville, to set up some roadblocks on the B3853 to catch out Barry, who we’ve been tipped off has had 3 pints.
You know that the second the police set up a roadblock on the B3853, someone would announce on the local Facebook/Whatsapp group ‘there’s a roadblock on the B3853 so you’re probably best popping round the B3854 instead’?
Or are you suggesting they put roadblocks up on ALL the local rural roads, simultaneously, to catch Barry who may or may not fail a breathalyser?
Many many years ago, (early 90s) my mates and I were staying near Applecross in Rural Scotland and were in the pub and we saw a local being helped out to his car. We asked WTF was going on and the response was if he crashed it would only be himself he hurt as all the kids are shipped out mon-fri to school and the only local cop would call ahead if he was going to be in town should anyone need him! That was an eye opener.
Apparently the reduction in the scots drink drive limit was going to ( or has) put all rural pubs out of buisness
I reckon the price rises and wage stagnation has done for a lot of pubs in Scotland. I stopped drinking in pubs regularly about 20 years ago. Partly due to boredom and too much aggro but also due to rising prices that my wages didn't keep up with.
Apparently the reduction in the scots drink drive limit was going to ( or has) put all rural pubs out of buisness
I reckon the price rises and wage stagnation has done for a lot of pubs in Scotland. I stopped drinking in pubs regularly about 20 years ago. Partly due to boredom and too much aggro but also due to rising prices that my wages didn't keep up with.
Clearly rural drink driving is a victimless crime
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg71k7ww47o.amp
To the folk that think three pints of beer doesn't affect their cognitive abilities should try drinking three pints before attempting their favourite techie mtb trails (obviously on a bike). I say attempt as you'll very likely wrap yourself around a tree.
OP, you did the right thing IMO.
Anyone defending or justifying drink driving should be forced to explain why to the family of someone who has lost a loved one. Thankfully I am not and hope never to be in that situation, but I would think anyone in that situation would find it hard to forgive
Personally I would be happy if the coppers had a tank they could drive around and flatten the drink drivers cars (with or without the driver getting out first)
Hang on a minute…. who is actually defending drink driving here?
If you can unruffle your righteous petticoats for a second, can you tell us who exactly is doing that?
Nobody, from what I’m reading. Some of us are simply pointing out the reality of the situation in some areas, but I certainly don’t see anyone condoning it.
Binners - drink driving is a cause of serious numbers of deaths. It wouldn't need to be done often to have the deterrent effect. As you know its the chances of being caught that make the deterrent.
So yes - I think it would be a worthwhile exercise and would save a lot of lives
I don’t think there’s really any dispute the drink driving is both more common, and more commonly ignored in rural communities. It doesn’t make it right but it is. The question the chief constable should be putting to his officers is - if everyone knows this why are you “missing” it. Of course that might then lead to a whole other discussion about resourcing etc.Schrödingers rural drink drivers.
well all police officers already have the power to stop and do document checks at any time. Strathclyde police used to set up “road blocks” for this at strategically useful times - if you smelled of alcohol or answered a question evasively about where you’d been or if you’d be drinking (no obligation to answer of course!) or there were any vehicle defects then the breathalyser came out. Of course that was in the days before social media, waze etc. But traffic cops have become endangered species despite many more people dying on our roads than are murdered, and the fact that traffic cops floating around would potentially disrupt organised crime.Personally I believe cops should be allowed to do random drink drive testing not have to wait for suspicion and should be doing roadblocks near rural and urban pubs and test everyone as they now do in Aus
There are at least a couple who clearly don't see the issue with drink driving, if you are getting uppity about thinking you might being included then maybe consider why others might think that
The official estimate, external released by the Department for Transport (DfT) says that in 2022, there were 300 deaths in Great Britain where at least one driver was over the limit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ve27zwr7vo
Uncle Jezza… I think you massively underestimate the scale of the problem.
As many of us have pointed out, having witnessed it first hand in different areas all over the UK, there is a hardcore to whom drink driving is just a thing you do. We live in a country where the rural road network spans thousands and thousands and thousands of miles and is full of pubs.
Putting the odd roadblock up on some random B road- if you had the resources, which you haven’t - will make absolutely sod all difference to the people to which this is hardwired behavior
Does anyone actually seriously believe for one second that the OP’s mr 3 pints phone call was followed up?
Of course it bloody wasn’t!
If you phoned up and said you’d just seen someone neck 3 bottles of wine and get in an artic, they still wouldn’t follow it up because they simply haven’t got the resources.
But traffic cops have become endangered species despite many more people dying on our roads than are murdered, and the fact that traffic cops floating around would potentially disrupt organised crime.
100% this. And as they’re an expensive and specialist resource they’re easy to cut.
Does anyone actually seriously believe for one second that the OP’s mr 3 pints phone call was followed up?
Of course it bloody wasn’t!
It may well of been followed up on. I have seen it happen when a call comes in regarding a potential drunk driver and if there is a unit available they go to the registered keepers address if its nearby and sit outside for a bit waiting for them to get home.
Does anyone actually seriously believe for one second that the OP’s mr 3 pints phone call was followed up?
Of course it bloody wasn’t!
It will have been if a unit available and I know the drink driver I dobbed in was done.
As for its too difficult to catch them in a random stop setup - police do this for other road crime ie set up to check every vehicle and they do it in other contries. Its just they are not allowed to do random breath tests IIRC.
I don’t think there’s really any dispute the drink driving is both more common, and more commonly ignored in rural communities. It doesn’t make it right but it is
On Tiree (Hebrides), and obviously where the limit is much lower, ie no drink, the main pub is next to the police station in the only real collection of housing on the island. Given aside from tourism the main economy is farming, it’s not uncommon for the pub to have a fair few locals and fishermen in it propping up the bar. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel catching them as they all get in their pick up trucks each evening and before you know it, you’d have bought and banned pretty much every male who likes a drink on the island inside a couple of weeks. But I suspect as the Pc is posted from the mainland they’d be lynched or run out of town if they upheld the law like this. So there must be a ritual of looking the other way (literally) at kicking out time each night. In no way condoning I hasten to add but very much what small island life entails.
if you are getting uppity about thinking you might being included then maybe consider why others might think that
Alternatively, some people might consider not roping everyone in to being the target of their righteous indignation and maybe read what people have actually said, and dial the sanctimony down a notch?
For the record, I don’t drink drive. Never have done in my life, never would, nor would I ever condone it, but living where I do, I see the reality of the situation that Daz described.
I have no idea how you stop it other than diverting all police resources to TJ’s roadblocks, which would still probably make no difference whatsoever either.
Some people are just selfish ****s who think they can do what the hell they like and sod the consequences! What surprised me when I moved out to a more rural area is just how many of them there are when it comes to drink driving.
I have no idea how you stop it other than diverting all police resources to TJ’s roadblocks, which would still probably make no difference whatsoever either.
Be public spirited and report the next person you see staggering out of the pub into their car. You might save their or someone else's life.
I have no idea how you stop it other than diverting all police resources to TJ’s roadblocks, which would still probably make no difference whatsoever either
I think you're wrong. I count myself amongst the many who have driven drunk (actually on a motorbike). The threat of being caught and banned eventually got through to me and I stopped. It just needs some more frequent, well publicised enforcement with a decent penalty and it'll gradually get through to even more folk. Everyone? Probably not. But let's not let perfect be the enemy of better.
Be public spirited and report the next person you see staggering out of the pub into their car. You might save their or someone else's life
I havent actually been in my local pub for years, precisely because it’s frequented by the kind of nobheads who have this attitude to drink driving.
You’ll be unsurprised to hear that they’re also a bunch of homophobic, sexist, racist, Reform-voting pricks, as I pointed out to them all one night, hence me not going in there any more.
The place I do choose to drink is a bit further, populated by much nicer people, and it’s a nice walk.
Bite me binners, considering there were at least 2 others basically saying that people shouldn't report them because "snitches get stiches", I don't care if you said similar, simply by trying to minimise their input it makes you as bad as them
I said something similar?
Did I?
If you seriously equate what I’ve said to ‘snitches get stitches’ then you may want to get your critical faculties checked out as they’re clearly a bit wayward
It just needs some more frequent, well publicised enforcement with a decent penalty and it'll gradually get through to even more folk. Everyone? Probably not. But let's not let perfect be the enemy of better.
The thing is that no-one currently believes they’ll get caught, which is why there are >1m uninsured drivers on the road, and why you see dickheads racing on the motorway.
It just needs some more frequent, well publicised enforcement with a decent penalty and it'll gradually get through to even more folk. Everyone? Probably not. But let's not let perfect be the enemy of better.
The thing is that no-one currently believes they’ll get caught, which is why there are >1m uninsured drivers on the road, and why you see dickheads racing on the motorway.
The scary thing about both your contributions there (and I'm not saying you are wrong) is a judgement that a change of behaviour would only be because people would be concerned about getting caught and the consequences, not because people have learnt to be more respectful citizens and appreciate their past behaviour wasn't.
But then again, that's how religion works - do the right thing or the big man with the all seeing eye will bash your head in.
It just needs some more frequent, well publicised enforcement with a decent penalty and it'll gradually get through to even more folk. Everyone? Probably not. But let's not let perfect be the enemy of better.
The thing is that no-one currently believes they’ll get caught, which is why there are >1m uninsured drivers on the road, and why you see dickheads racing on the motorway.
Which is why I think roadblocks and a breath test of everyone is a damn good idea. Make folk believe they will get caught